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Blood & Glory: Faith & Fury, Chaos Sorcerer

Psychic Awakening event

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#26
Bryan Blaire

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I think a really important question is "What does GW feel 'Codex Supplement-tier' content actually is?"
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#27
Redcomet

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Surely they at least hinted at future Templar support?

No.

 

A fantastic set of reveals, I want everything. 
 

Those two sisters tanks are crazy awesome, Mephy looks amazing but AoS ran away with the really great models imo.

 

I am going to be even poorer than I already am.


Edited by Redcomet, 02 November 2019 - 10:16 PM.


#28
Hathor42

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putting a helmet on that sorcerer will be a little tough as it looks like he's wearing a psychic hood!



#29
Reinhard

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I think a really important question is "What does GW feel 'Codex Supplement-tier' content actually is?"

Something that can squeezed in and given to 7 factions at once in a campaign book that includes a narrative with even more factions involved.



#30
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I think a really important question is "What does GW feel 'Codex Supplement-tier' content actually is?"


It’s going to be really difficult to reach that for chaos because they don’t have the same level codex itself to base them on. So many of the great strats and abilities in the Marine supplements are designed to work with doctrines or other bonuses from the main codex that chaos just simply can’t get to that level without something seriously big in PA 2.
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#31
Marshal Loss

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putting a helmet on that sorcerer will be a little tough as it looks like he's wearing a psychic hood!

 

Good catch, the neck of the head itself is clearly visible though so I think the head is separate. A helmet without horns could fit


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#32
Commander Dawnstar

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I think a really important question is "What does GW feel 'Codex Supplement-tier' content actually is?"

 

From an optimistic perspective: Six Warlord Traits and Relics, two pages of Stratagems and maybe a new Psychic Discipline for each of the Legions, plus the possibility of rules updates for named characters. Maybe tweaks to Legion Traits and something akin to Special-Issue Wargear if they're super lucky.


Edited by Commander Dawnstar, 02 November 2019 - 10:20 PM.

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#33
sairence

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Wasn't the Imperial Guard symbol in their last video-trailer as well? Now there seems to be no mention of them...
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#34
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Wasn't the Imperial Guard symbol in their last video-trailer as well? Now there seems to be no mention of them...

 

They will just get fluff, Harlequins also featured in PA1 but got nothing in terms of rules. I mean it doesnt really matter much to IG since they are good ruleswise and they are so ubiquitous in the Imperium that they can be placed anywhere and it would make sense.


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#35
Jorin Helm-splitter

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I think a really important question is "What does GW feel 'Codex Supplement-tier' content actually is?"


From an optimistic perspective: Six Warlord Traits and Relics, two pages of Stratagems and maybe a new Psychic Discipline for each of the Legions, plus the possibility of rules updates for named characters. Maybe tweaks to Legion Traits and something akin to Special-Issue Wargear if they're super lucky.

I would agree with this, with the possibility of chaplain/apostle powers for certain fractions.

#36
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I play Death Guard so nothing interesting for me at all, really hope that they can get some new rules or something

Edited by Iron Father Ferrum, 02 November 2019 - 11:50 PM.
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#37
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#38
Nemesor Tyriks

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Nice Exorcist. I wonder if that is a new Immolator model.


The filename of the picture includes immolator so I am guessing it is indeed.

As for the Templars, it is really puzzling for GW to not release anything to support them miniature-wise, be it an upgrade sprue or a character.

About the Chaos Sorceror, am I the only one that thinks it is quite weird to see him as a Word Bearer in the cover of the book, but wearing Black Legion colours in the official paintjob? I know the Black Legion includes members of all Traitor Legions, but considering BL are not even supposed to appear in the book (would be weird if they did so without getting any rules at all), it all looks weird. I am guessing it is actually a generic sorceror, and the paintjob is to tie him to the rest of previous CSM releases painted as BL, but it seems kinda lazy to not have a copy painted as a WB to show.

 

No, unless a model is restricted to one Legion they'll always use Black Legion paint scheme (same with Ultramarines for loyalists).  They're the standard Legion, so I would expect every new model going forward that can be Black Legion to be first shown off as a Black Legion model.  It's what they always do.


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#39
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First time I think I've loved every model in a preview...

#40
Ciler

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I wonder what the 'new stuff' for marines is... It can't be just rules, else the line is redundant

One of the leaks was for "level up" type stratagems for chaplains and librarians (same as exists to turn a captain into a chapter master). I expect that is what would be available to everyone.

I think a really important question is "What does GW feel 'Codex Supplement-tier' content actually is?"

I expect they mean rules, I don't imagine they can fit fluff and photos for so many factions without the book becoming ridiculously huge.

Edited by Brother Casman, 04 November 2019 - 03:00 PM.
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#41
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All those tasty models will be mine!
I LOVE that sorcerer!
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#42
Bryan Blaire

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I think a really important question is "What does GW feel 'Codex Supplement-tier' content actually is?"

I expect they mean rules, I don't imagine they can fit fluff and photos for so many factions without the book becoming ridiculously huge.
Agreed, but I think it's an important consideration for the management of expectations - we've already seen quite a few complaints about things that were never promised, but now that GW has put that statement out there, folks may reinvigorate unrealistic expectations without warrant.

I also don't believe that a Supplement or "Supplement-lite" guarantees any models for any faction.
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#43
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I think a really important question is "What does GW feel 'Codex Supplement-tier' content actually is?"

I expect they mean rules, I don't imagine they can fit fluff and photos for so many factions without the book becoming ridiculously huge.
Agreed, but I think it's an important consideration for the management of expectations - we've already seen quite a few complaints about things that were never promised, but now that GW has put that statement out there, folks may reinvigorate unrealistic expectations without warrant.

I also don't believe that a Supplement or "Supplement-lite" guarantees any models for any faction.

I agree with what you say except for the fact that I think this is now GW setting up another problem of their own making. Saying they will be equivalent to the supplements would leave people to (quite reasonably) expect several new warlord traits, relics, stratagems and even boosted chapter/legion tactics for each force.

When they inevitably don’t get that, this time it’ll be GW that raised expectations. They just don’t seem like they’ve quite got the balance between building hype and and setting realistic expectations yet :)

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#44
Ciler

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Agreed, but I think it's an important consideration for the management of expectations - we've already seen quite a few complaints about things that were never promised, but now that GW has put that statement out there, folks may reinvigorate unrealistic expectations without warrant.

I also don't believe that a Supplement or "Supplement-lite" guarantees any models for any faction.

Certainly. GW never promised anything with regards to BT releases, and a lot of "hype" came from the Kirioth video in which he announced a possible BT vs Orks box.

That being said, I feel that expecting the same treatment as other chapters in the codex was not an unrealistic expectation. Not a given either, I mean Iron Hands got less model support than BT for a very long time, but not a ludicrous one yet. So I can understand a certain amount of disappointment.

And then, when it becomes clear that BTs are getting a more limited release, to publish that they are getting "supplement-tier content", really does feel like a slap in the face. I mean sure, everyone will rationally understand that by "content" they mean "rules", but when the current gripe is precisely that you're not getting anything else but rules, walking that road seems dubious. Especially when it comes at a higher financial premium. As I have said before, giving BT players the same amount of rules another chapter got for 22€ in a supplement, but in a 32€ campaign book, I'm sure you can understand BT players feel like they are being had.

 

Yes, some had unrealistic expectations, I'll admit to it and I have been among those asking for less whining on the BT side. But you have to admit that we have reached a point where some of the complaint are actually valid.


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#45
Bryan Blaire

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So running a rough comparison of the Supplements for C:SM vs. the supplemental rules given is PA1 for the different Eldar factions, the amount of rules support was roughly the same - 31 pages of rules split amongst 3 factions in PA1 vs an average of 11.3 pages of rules per faction in the C:SM supplements.

So PA1 contained roughly "Supplement-tier" support.

For PA2 to contain about the same, let's assume that Chaos groups will not all be getting individual expanded Warlord Traits (these are already included in the Codex), not all will be getting individual name generators (only two were included in PA1), and there may not be individual Stratagem support, we may be looking at say 20-30 pages of rules of expanded material for about six Chaos faction subdivisions. For Black Templars, there may be another 6-10 pages of rules, given that there is already separate support in Codex: Space Marines.

That would provide anywhere from 26-40 pages of rules, which while a bit lower than average for the Supplements, would still be roughly 6ish average pages of support per faction subdivision. I will fully agree that I have over-estimated support to be included, I wouldn't actually expect quite this much, because I don't think that GW considers these sub-factions to be so different as needing full developed material per group to make them different from each other.

So if we get roughly 30ish pages of rules support in PA2 for all factions combined, it will still meet the "Supplement-tier" statement overall based on PA1.

Rough page rules support breakdowns:
Ultramarines - 16 + Name Generator
White Scars - 10 + Name Generator
Raven Guard - 10 + Name Generator
Iron Hands - 10 + Name Generator
Imperial Fists - 12 + Name Generator
Salamanders - 10 + Name Generator

Phoenix Rising:
Craftworlds - Name Generator + 13
Dark Eldar - Name Generator + 7
Ynnari - 11
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#46
sairence

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Wasn't the Imperial Guard symbol in their last video-trailer as well? Now there seems to be no mention of them...


They will just get fluff, Harlequins also featured in PA1 but got nothing in terms of rules. I mean it doesnt really matter much to IG since they are good ruleswise and they are so ubiquitous in the Imperium that they can be placed anywhere and it would make sense.

IG being good ruleswise is a bit of a tricky. Yes, the codex has pretty decent internal balance, but it was the first of 8th that was finished writing and as such suffers from weak strategems and lack of good synergies. It is also a perfect army for a more detailed subfaction-system.

I'm just confused why they would tease them along the other factions in the book, but then not do anything with them.
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#47
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For Heretic Astartes, we saw that the Black Legion supplement rules were Warlord Traits, Relics, and a Page of strats - no rules for vehicles and no tweak to Legion traits - so that is what I expect for chaos marines.

 

For loyalists, the supplements have been WTs, Relics, and strats, but also a psychic discipline and doctrine ability, so I expect BTs will get the new chaplain table (to replace powers) and their doctrine ability confirmed.

 

Not all supplements are created equal!


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#48
Closet Skeleton

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It’s pretty sad that they’ve got so little to say about PA 2 that the only thing they can do is tease a character from PA 3.

They could’ve revealed a few of the strats, bonuses or relics that the Templars or any of the chaos legions were getting at least.

 

They showed the only model from PA2. These preview seminars have always been model focused not rules focused.

 

 

 


Same. Was there any explanation given at the event?

 

 

The miniatures team chooses the models and only rules guys were at the seminar.

 

 


Plus it's a small event really, I'd argue that new chaos warriors, sisters tanks, chaos sorcerer, new supplement and mephiston isn't bad for an event in Derby to preview!!!

 

 

Its not a small event, its the biggest independent Shadespire and Age of Sigmar event in the UK and pretty much the only UK event to get these seminars. Only bigger event in the UK is the London GT.



#49
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It’s pretty sad that they’ve got so little to say about PA 2 that the only thing they can do is tease a character from PA 3.

They could’ve revealed a few of the strats, bonuses or relics that the Templars or any of the chaos legions were getting at least.


They showed the only model from PA2. These preview seminars have always been model focused not rules focused.

But that’s the point. There was so little to show they had to start showing stuff from PA 3.

It’s like “look at all these cool models you’re getting for PA 1, plus a box set with them all in. Now look at PA 2, a model ....(tumbleweed rolls past)... right onto PA 3 now!”

If they didn’t have enough to show then they absolutely should’ve dipped into the story, the rules something to make it look like this next book isn’t just a non-entity.

I think it’s partly a problem that they went all in with the first book and the model support that anything after that is going to look half hearted.
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#50
Jorin Helm-splitter

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It’s pretty sad that they’ve got so little to say about PA 2 that the only thing they can do is tease a character from PA 3.

They could’ve revealed a few of the strats, bonuses or relics that the Templars or any of the chaos legions were getting at least.

They showed the only model from PA2. These preview seminars have always been model focused not rules focused.
But that’s the point. There was so little to show they had to start showing stuff from PA 3.

It’s like “look at all these cool models you’re getting for PA 1, plus a box set with them all in. Now look at PA 2, a model ....(tumbleweed rolls past)... right onto PA 3 now!”

If they didn’t have enough to show then they absolutely should’ve dipped into the story, the rules something to make it look like this next book isn’t just a non-entity.

I think it’s partly a problem that they went all in with the first book and the model support that anything after that is going to look half hearted.

I think alot of their marketing is going to be focused on the necromunda box because of the price point. I think they view a book like PA2 as not needing as much effort to sell, for example they focused way more on the pricey box set for blood of the Phoenix than they did on book. Plus that model is a model only a month away.





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