IF whirlwind? the best of all chapters?

[Rodrick]

what do you guys think, is IF whirlwind better than all other chapters?

 

having +1D against vehicles and ignoring cover make in my opinion one of the best vehicles in the game 

[Happy-inquisitor]

what do you guys think, is IF whirlwind better than all other chapters?

 

having +1D against vehicles and ignoring cover make in my opinion one of the best vehicles in the game 

 

I feel like the only drawback to the Whirlwind is that it is not a Thunderfire Cannon. The Thunderfire has more accurate shooting, is easier to hide out of LOS and has access to the ridiculously good Tremor Shells stratagem. 

 

So yes the Whirlwind is good. The Thunderfire Cannon is in most ways better.

[Mandragola]

Well, a whirlwind can kill a TFC relatively easily. The TFC can't really kill the whirlwind.

 

Otherwise yes, the TFC is generally better. Whirlwinds gain a lot from the IF doctrines but TFCs get even more.

[Happy-inquisitor]

Well, a whirlwind can kill a TFC relatively easily. The TFC can't really kill the whirlwind.

 

Otherwise yes, the TFC is generally better. Whirlwinds gain a lot from the IF doctrines but TFCs get even more.

 

The +1 damage to vehicles and 2+ save on the TFC balance things out more than you might think. Not that either is any good at killing the other.

 

According to visual dice calculator the whirlwind has a fractional chance of killing a TFC but I'm not going to think that 0.7% chance is really worth all the stuff you lose out on.

 

http://40k.ghostlords.com/dice/#attacks=2d6&bs=3&ap=1&s=6&d=1&t=6&save=2&wounds=4

http://40k.ghostlords.com/dice/#attacks=4d3&bs=2&ap=1&s=5&d=2&t=7&save=3&wounds=11

[jeremy1391]

If you use the strength 7 missiles, and don’t forget we will be staying in the devestator doctrine. And I usually have a chapter master with the eye of hypnoth in my castle...

[Mandragola]

A TFC is a vehicle with 4 wounds. A whirlwind is pretty dangerous for it. To be fair, another TFC is also pretty dangerous for a TFC.

[jeremy1391]

A TFC is a vehicle with 4 wounds. A whirlwind is pretty dangerous for it. To be fair, another TFC is also pretty dangerous for a TFC.

Especially if it’s an imperial fist thunderfire shooting at any other chapters thunder fire.

[Rodrick]

i have yet to playtest 3 whirldwinds, but in paper , for the point, they seem solid, top 5 unit for IF

[jeremy1391]

So using the Math hammer app a whirlwind of either type of backed by a chapter master in our lovely fist castle will kill a thunderfire in one volley.

 

Whereas a thunderfire will not kill a whirlwind

 

Also a scorpius will kill a thunder fire but not a whirlwind.

[tvih]

Having finished the TFC I guess I should also make the CF Whirlwind at some point. I've had two for years, but never used them. One was supposed to be BT and one CF, but alas beyond the basecoat and missile tips on the BT turret they're still unpainted (and unassembled). I always liked to look of it but rules-wise it tended to be "meh" at best whenever I looked at it. This Devastator doctrine helps it a bit but then it does also help other Heavy weapon Heavy Support units so I'm not sure how good it is even now. Still, definitely better for CF than BT now.

[jeremy1391]

Having finished the TFC I guess I should also make the CF Whirlwind at some point. I've had two for years, but never used them. One was supposed to be BT and one CF, but alas beyond the basecoat and missile tips on the BT turret they're still unpainted (and unassembled). I always liked to look of it but rules-wise it tended to be "meh" at best whenever I looked at it. This Devastator doctrine helps it a bit but then it does also help other Heavy weapon Heavy Support units so I'm not sure how good it is even now. Still, definitely better for CF than BT now.

They are still super useful for black Templar’s for tremor shells.

[Happy-inquisitor]

So using the Math hammer app a whirlwind of either type of backed by a chapter master in our lovely fist castle will kill a thunderfire in one volley.

 

Whereas a thunderfire will not kill a whirlwind

 

Also a scorpius will kill a thunder fire but not a whirlwind.

 

I had been considering the ability to kill Thunderfire Cannons a bit of a small niche but I had a look at some current tournament lists and I have changed my mind.

 

A whirlwind when solidly buffed up is a decent counter to thunderfire cannons and they are going to be almost ubiquitous in marine lists. If you are playing in an environment with enough LOS blocking terrain to hide your whirlwind with buffing characters then it is a decent pick. If is worse than the Thunderfire Cannon at almost every task but it wins the straight shootout and that matters.

 

So yes, you persuaded me. 

[tvih]

 

Having finished the TFC I guess I should also make the CF Whirlwind at some point. I've had two for years, but never used them. One was supposed to be BT and one CF, but alas beyond the basecoat and missile tips on the BT turret they're still unpainted (and unassembled). I always liked to look of it but rules-wise it tended to be "meh" at best whenever I looked at it. This Devastator doctrine helps it a bit but then it does also help other Heavy weapon Heavy Support units so I'm not sure how good it is even now. Still, definitely better for CF than BT now.

They are still super useful for black Templar’s for tremor shells.

 

 

I assume you mean TFCs? I was referring to the Whirlwinds as comparison between the two chapters, I only have the one TFC which is painted for CF. Though it could also pass for BT given my paint scheme, just use the BT techmarine instead.

 

Speaking of techmarines, the thing with killing a TFC is that even when the gun itself is down, the techmarine gunner is still there and can do stuff. Of course not shoot across the map, but still potentially useful regardless. Also it can of course repair the gun if the Whirlwind can't kill the gun in one turn. In general I don't think comparing the two unit in an isolated 1v1 scenario is all that fruitful.

Edited November 6, 2019 by tvih

[jeremy1391]

Derp yes

[Marauder112]

Why not use both? I use a list at the moment with 3 thunderfire cannons and 3 whirlwinds. They have different roles and when you play with enough scenery you should be able to hide most of them. I am normally able to hide all the thunderfire cannons and most of the time 2 whirlwinds (for the first turn). The 3th whirlwind can normally be targeted only by a few enemy units. This changes a bit when you face an enemy that has a lot of speed and hard shooting weapons on them.

 

In my imperial Fist list I also field 9 devastator centurions (most of the time a unit of 6 and a unit of 3). My experience is that they shoot at my centurions most of the time and my artillery can shoot without any returning fire. 

 

I've also faced armies that also uses thunderfire cannons (most of the time Iron Hands) and I've used my whirlwinds to take them out. With 3 whirlwinds, chapter master + eye of hypnoth and sometimes the extra round of shooting stratagem I was, in most cases, able to take out the 3 thunderfire cannons in one turn.

[Snazzy]

One of the reasons i like Whirlwinds enough to resist replacing them with TFCs is the ability to mount HK missiles.  That little extra pop at the start of the game, especially on a Whirlwind using Tank Hunters is really helpful.