Scariest Smash Captain?

[MeltaRange]

What do you all think? I think every chapter has a pretty boss Smash Captain they can bring to bear. Would like to hear anything you’ve thought up!

 

I’ve been trying to decide on mine:

 

TH/SS, Wrath of Heavens, Master of Snares + Imperium’s Sword

 

TH/SS, Master crafted, Hunter’s Instinct’s + Imperium‘a Sword (Or Chogorian Storm)

[Cruor Vault]

The Ultramarines version is possibly the scariest overall, though by far the most resource intensive.

 

With Imperium's Sword, the Victrix Guard formation, and Warden of Ultramar it's possible (though unlikely) to throw out as many as 24 S10 D4 Thunder Hammer attacks in a single turn.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I feel like the white scars version is the most deadly, due to the warlord trait of even more attacks. It's hard to compete with that; it doesn't rely on a lucky amount of 6s or specific targets. You just whack them with a bunch of attacks.

 

That being said, the 1.0 faq raven guard-teeth of terra captain was my favorite.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Salamanders have a build that is unkillable except for mortal wounds.

[Commander Krag]

Salamanders have a build that is unkillable except for mortal wounds.

How so?

[casb1965]

@ Commander Krag

 

I'm guessing he's looking at the Forge Master Warlord Trait for +2 Toughness, adding on Miraculous Constitution Warlord Trait (1CP) for 6+++ FNP and recover 1 wound at the srart of your movement phase. Throw on the Salamander's Mantle relic for -1 to hit, have a friendly Librarian cast Drakeskin on him for +1 Toughness.

 

On a Captain in Gravis Armour that becomes  3+, 4++, 6+++, Toughness 7 (8 with Drakeskin) with -1 to hit and a 1 wound regen each turn.

[Medjugorje]

 BT Sword Master (103 points) and one CP

(Captain with Stormshield, Teeth of Terra and Jump Pack) with WL-Trait "Sword Master" (+1 Attack and exploding Attacks on 6s)

(possible Stratagem "suffer not the unclean.." with +1 Attack and reroll wounds) makes them the best Infantery Killer

[Sword Brother Adelard]

According to this test of abilities, with the same gear: https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-smash-captain-thunderdome/

White Scars, followed by Templars.

[PiñaColada]

@ Commander Krag

 

I'm guessing he's looking at the Forge Master Warlord Trait for +2 Toughness, adding on Miraculous Constitution Warlord Trait (1CP) for 6+++ FNP and recover 1 wound at the srart of your movement phase. Throw on the Salamander's Mantle relic for -1 to hit, have a friendly Librarian cast Drakeskin on him for +1 Toughness.

 

On a Captain in Gravis Armour that becomes  3+, 4++, 6+++, Toughness 7 (8 with Drakeskin) with -1 to hit and a 1 wound regen each turn.

Salamanders Mantle is -1 to wound not -1 to hit. That does mean you're technically speaking immortal against S3 or less if you pair it with Forge Master (+2 toughness), since 6's always wound and not unmodified 6's

[TrawlingCleaner]

Sallies by absolutely far. Drakesmitter relic with the strat to double damage on 6s to wound means that you're doing flat 12 damage with a Thunder hammer hitting on 2s with -4 AP. It's something I haven't seen brought up much and there are no other Smash Captains that can do that much damage. Spend a CP on him and bump his S&T

[casb1965]

 

@ Commander Krag

 

I'm guessing he's looking at the Forge Master Warlord Trait for +2 Toughness, adding on Miraculous Constitution Warlord Trait (1CP) for 6+++ FNP and recover 1 wound at the srart of your movement phase. Throw on the Salamander's Mantle relic for -1 to hit, have a friendly Librarian cast Drakeskin on him for +1 Toughness.

 

On a Captain in Gravis Armour that becomes  3+, 4++, 6+++, Toughness 7 (8 with Drakeskin) with -1 to hit and a 1 wound regen each turn.

Salamanders Mantle is -1 to wound not -1 to hit. That does mean you're technically speaking immortal against S3 or less if you pair it with Forge Master (+2 toughness), since 6's always wound and not unmodified 6's

 

 

You're right, -1 to wound.

[MeltaRange]

Awesome responses.  Particularly that UM guy, I hadn't even thought about that combination but it's pretty insane. I read thru that math hammer link (thank you, Brother Adelard) and I was surprised to see the BT so high, but that's cool.  They should be dangerous in combat.

 

One thing that I think goes into the "scariest" are abilities outside of just pure damage, like mobility and chance to make it into combat.  BA and WS for me are the scariest because of this, even if they don't do the most damage.  Personally, I would never give up the WS CT to advance/fall back and charge for Whirlwind of Rage.  Smasha Khan also is hindered by the fact he is not fully functional until turn 3. 

 

It's also interesting to think about relic/warlord trait decisions, like Master-Crafted vs Wrath of Heavens for the relic on a WS Biker Captain.  Or for Salamanders, is Salamander's Mantle or Drakesmiter better?

 

 

 

I guess part of my question here is: what do you like better, a Smash Captain that does max pure damage, or one that has some additional utility?

[SkimaskMohawk]

The white scar one isn't relying on turn 3. It's relying on imperiums sword, the D3 extra attacks and mastercrafted thunderhammer, it averages 32 damage against a knight with fight twice. Plus the charging stratagems.

[casb1965]

@ MeltaRange

 

Drakesmiter is very good, you just have to weigh up an extra AP and a 1 in 6 chance of double damage on your attacks against -1 to wound rolls against you.

 

The extra defense to me outweighs the extra damage, after all if he's dead he can't hurt anything. As a pure kill-machine the Drakesmiter works well.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The scary thing about the Templar is that's pre-PA2 optimisation. That's just with piggy backing on the IF stuff.

 

It gets worse as well. If you place him within a +1 to hit litany aura of Grimaldus and an Ancient with the IF relic banner, the dice start to explode on 5s (Grim works on modified 6s) and his unmodified 6s explode on the WL trait as is.

[Aothaine]

Not sure why you're leaving out the Blood Angels Smash Captain. He is still pretty damn good imho. Also, I think it is important to have a delivery system for that captain. Otherwise it will get shot to pieces.

[MeltaRange]

Not sure why you're leaving out the Blood Angels Smash Captain. He is still pretty damn good imho. Also, I think it is important to have a delivery system for that captain. Otherwise it will get shot to pieces.

 

I didn't.  I referenced him a few posts above as "the scariest" along with WS because of their extreme mobility.

[Aothaine]

 

I didn't.  I referenced him a few posts above as "the scariest" along with WS because of their extreme mobility.

 

Ahhh my bad. Good on you! :D

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

Not sure why you're leaving out the Blood Angels Smash Captain. He is still pretty damn good imho. Also, I think it is important to have a delivery system for that captain. Otherwise it will get shot to pieces.

I didn't. I referenced him a few posts above as "the scariest" along with WS because of their extreme mobility.

Raven Guard is right up there as far as mobility is concerned.

 

Give him the Swift and Deadly WL trait and Iron Resolve and he's quick and tanky.

 

Give him the Armor of Shadows relic he becomes even more tanky, as now any natural to hit rolls of 1, 2, or 3 will always fail. Makes him perfect for character hunting since most characters that can't be reliably killed by snipers have a 2+ WS.

[SallyForth]

Salamanders drake smiter doesn’t do 12, it does 9. Multiply before addition, per the rules.

[The Wolfguard]

Whilst not really a 'smash captain' as such, I ran a Primaris captain, imperial fists supplement, with power fist, adamantine mantle then indomitable and stubborn heroism. 5+++ along with only can be wounded on a 4+ and halves all incoming damage? This was pretty nice and only 92 points. I unfortunately didn't get chance to use him to his full potential as I was scared of pushing him up but he definitely could have been a nuisance and was when he got there.

 

Though admittedly, compared to the damage output of the smash captains here, he's probably nowhere near on par with them of course, but that's what you get for making him tougher instead of more offensive!

 

Quick Edit: You could combine this with a librarian with fortify or apothecary for more wounds back too! Potentially 2d3 wounds back per turn, he's not going anywhere that quickly that's for sure.

Edited November 10, 2019 by The Wolfguard

[casb1965]

@ SallyForth

 

On a 6 to wound the Drakesmiter adds 3 to the damage characteristic of the weapon not the weapon damage. So it becomes damage 6 not damage 3 + 3.

 

If a stratagem then doubles the damage it does 12 as it is 2 x 6 not 2 x 3 + 3

[Kallas]

@ SallyForth

 

On a 6 to wound the Drakesmiter adds 3 to the damage characteristic of the weapon not the weapon damage. So it becomes damage 6 not damage 3 + 3.

 

If a stratagem then doubles the damage it does 12 as it is 2 x 6 not 2 x 3 + 3

The issue is not where it adds the damage to, it's the order of operations.

 

Multiply, divide, add, subtract. That's the standard process and the one that is used here.

 

So multiply 3 by 2 (=6) then add 3 (=9).

[TrawlingCleaner]

 

@ SallyForth

 

On a 6 to wound the Drakesmiter adds 3 to the damage characteristic of the weapon not the weapon damage. So it becomes damage 6 not damage 3 + 3.

 

If a stratagem then doubles the damage it does 12 as it is 2 x 6 not 2 x 3 + 3

The issue is not where it adds the damage to, it's the order of operations.

 

Multiply, divide, add, subtract. That's the standard process and the one that is used here.

 

So multiply 3 by 2 (=6) then add 3 (=9).

 

 

Which would be true if they hadn't already covered something similar to this. There are senarios where you add a strength for whatever reason (charging, heroic intervention) and when using a weapon the x2 to the strength. They clarified that you add the strength as it's a modifier to the base stats THEN you times the strength. The wording on the relic suggests that this is the same as you add 3 to the weapons dmg profie rather than just adding 3 dmg. The FAQ will for sure clear this up and I hope they make a ruling on this to cover everything rather than picking and chosing where stuff applies.

[casb1965]

@ Kallas

 

I fully understand BODMAS but that isn't the issue, the issue is the wording of the rule and where the rule adds the damage, does it change the damage done by the weapon (e.g. Marksmen's Honour +1D) or the result of the damage "roll" (e.g. Imperial Fists rule +1D vs vehicles)

 

Drakesmiter rules clearly say it "adds 3 to the damage characteristic" not the damage of the weapon, so it becomes a 6D weapon not a 3D plus 3 damage additional damage on a roll of 6.

 

So the strategy with Drakesmiter is 6D (3 doubled) and 12D (6 doubled) on a 6.