Primaris Sucessors Question.

[Sete]

Hello my dudes. I have a few questions.

I haven't followed recent DA lore after primaris dropped, so whats the deal with the following:

 

How do Primaris Sucessors fit into the Unforgiven as a whole?

How do they know about the Fallen?

Obviously they don't have Raven and Deathwing right?

How are the Primaris Chapters seen and approached by the DA?

Do we know from where the bulk of the Primaris DA recruits were taken from?

 

[Bryan Blaire]

Unknown to all those questions at this point. Primaris had been kept at arms length and had even been used as body shields, but now some have been accepted into the Deathwing and Ravenwing (in what capacity/use, we really don't know) in the Dark Angels.

[Sete]

Thanks for the answer.

A shame this has not been explained yet.

[Aothaine]

Thanks for the answer.

A shame this has not been explained yet.

 

The new DA codex will cover it for sure. Expected release date is 2030. :D

Edited November 7, 2019 by Aothaine

[Sete]

I expect a codex 2020 for DA.

I was just musing about a DA DiY sucessor chapter lore.

Basically at the moment they can be a codex chapter, without DA defining features.

 

A newly ultima founding chapter would not have the knowledge about the fallen, probably would not have an inner circle aswell with DW and RW.

[Berzul]

To my limited knowledge, a DA Ultima Founding or Primaris successor would just be a regular astartes force, sans the relics, traits, powers, profiles and rules of the current Astartes.

 

There are no unique DA primaris units or vehicles.

All of the unique units and vehicles are non primaris.

And DA don't follow the new rules for successor chapters from the astartes update. So, you have the characters, powers and traits of our codex, and only the Heavenfall Blade as a choice of relic.

 

The army would not know of the fallen, the hunt, or the inner circle; and would have no DW or RW.

 

... We need a new codex, and we need it bad.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Berzul

[Sete]

True, an awkward situation to be in for this long.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Sete

[Berzul]

Playing a Primaris Successor to the DA, to the letter of the rules, is placing an uneeded and unfair handicap on yourself.

 

You might just as well just make a custom successor per the updated Space Marines Codex, and call it a DA successor.

[Sete]

Yes, makes sense.

I probably wont be starting anything until after PA4, but this gave me some food for thought.

 

Actually this deserves an email to GW.

Since DW and RW are specialized companies with their own rules, a DA successor could in theory have a choice of CT from CSM, and acess to the generic relics/ Warlord Traits.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Sete

[G8Keeper]

True, an awkward situation to be in for this long.

 

This is why I'm stretching my Drukhari muscles at the moment **ducks from Stobz***

[Berzul]

True, an awkward situation to be in for this long.

 

I still play my Legacy Marines force, without any Space Marines. Old Codex Astartes style, with the Demi Company structure, adapted to fit the Dark Angel's more unconventional army composition.

 

I don't plan on getting ANY Space Marines, until the DA gets a new Codex. There is just little point to play a Space Marines-only force, right now. From all stand points, it's better to just play another astartes army.

[Sete]

I understand you situation.

I have built some Primaris, but just to check the kit out, and it was a gift from last Christmas.

I had no reason yet to invest on primaris, nor do I have the will to pick up my OG marines.

 

Since it seems BT is not getting new models I was looking around to invest on a DA sucessor, but it seems for now you guys have it worse. :/

 

The wait continues.

[Deadman Wade]

As I said in BT complaining thread, DA, SW and BA are in much worse shape than BT, especially if you're going to build primaris lists. Basically, C:SM can build good primaris lists, DA can't.

For the last couple of years only chapter-specific models are HQs (and some of them have no special rules, just a model), and it's safe to say that there will be no new chapter-specific units for a long time, at least until GW finishes main primaris line.

Model-wise, to make distinct primaris models with ANY chapter you'll have to use bitz and upgrade sprues from old boxes like DA veterans and ravenwing, BA tactical squad or SW grey hunters, otherwise it will end with green/red/grey Ultramarines.

Fluff-wise, it isn't much better, since all lore about primaris is "THEY ARE AWESOME!!!" or in DA case "we don't really trust them, but THEY ARE SO SWESOME!!! so we can't help but accept them".

Edited November 8, 2019 by Deadman Wade

[Berzul]

I think that, for non-codex compliant chapters, the best option is to wait for a bit.

[Sete]

My issues on the BT front is the lack of of specific models.

Because like you said it's just a shade of ultramarines at the moment with primaris.

 

And like I said on that thread BT are a Crusader squad away of being generic.

I dont dislike primaris , but I dont have reasons to buy them atm.

A shame they take this long to develop lore and release stuff.

Imo of they had skipped vanguard and released proper primaris terminators primaris bikes and melee, it would have been better.

 

Edit: I remember when BT was non compliant lol

 

But this is not the thread to lament about BT.

 

With the new edition rumours coming next spring, I dont see DA getting anything before that :/

Edited November 8, 2019 by Sete

[Berzul]

I think most people would agree.

 

Rumors of 9th edition are starting to show up, and even though they talk of an edition that will be just a polished version of 8th (which is fine by me, in all honesty, as I particularly enjoy 8th even if there are aspects of 7th I miss), I still think that GW will probably refrain from releasing any new codices before said update comes around.

 

I am thinking that it might come with a release of Chaos Guard, which has also been theorized due to the releases for Black Fortress. If so, I think the fluff might be for the DA to make have a resurgence (perhaps with the Lion waking?), as a counterpoint to the new waves of heretics. Kind of in the same vein of the BT getting probable new releases with Psychic Awakening, since they are THE chapter that will most prominently be shown in the whole thing. Which, makes sense, lore wise.

 

DA might get some love after 8.5th or 9th, but not before then.

 

I just hope that, when they do, we won't get just lip service and a badly constructed codex.

I might just pick up some marines to bolster my legacy force, then. Which is why, in writing my chapter, I've left myself some room to work them in.

 

Here's to hoping.

[Bryan Blaire]

Biggest misstep about the Primaris Marines reboot was not getting through how all the Chapters (especially the non-Codex Chapters) would deal with them written up beforehand. I honestly don't think that GW anticipated any pushback with the Primaris release. I truly wish they had just held off on any Primaris for BA and DA (oddly enough, I actually like Primaris for Space Wolves, although I would still like more story on it all) until they were ready for a full adaptation for them.

[Deadman Wade]

Biggest misstep about the Primaris Marines reboot was not getting through how all the Chapters (especially the non-Codex Chapters) would deal with them written up beforehand. I honestly don't think that GW anticipated any pushback with the Primaris release. I truly wish they had just held off on any Primaris for BA and DA (oddly enough, I actually like Primaris for Space Wolves, although I would still like more story on it all) until they were ready for a full adaptation for them.

 

Agreed. My main problem is that the lore is so poorly written. I understand that GW writers come and go, and people that worked on previous lore aren't in GW anymore. But DAAAAAAMN, writing quality today is at it's lowest.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Deadman Wade

[jaxom]

I'm sure there was a lot of love and thought put into War of Secrets, but it's why I'm most likely never going to paint up 40k Dark Angels again.

[Berzul]

I'm sure there was a lot of love and thought put into War of Secrets, but it's why I'm most likely never going to paint up 40k Dark Angels again.

Could you explain tha further? I did not understand.

[jaxom]

I've been trying to let if fade from my mind so I may be a bit off, but:

 

• The hypno-indoctrination all Dark Angels undergo includes a backdoor for Interrogator-Chaplains to replicate "diagnostic mode" from West World; leaving the entire Chapter vulnerable to "The Long Games at Carcharias" style manipulation (Alpha Legion wiped out Crimson Consuls in part by hacking their hypno-indoctrination).
• The firstborn are presented as a near-unthinking foot soldiers for the Inner Circle to push around.
• The Inner Circle are presented as rabid and micro-managing in their attempts to control the workings of the Chapter.
• Any primaris who complains about their integration into the Chapter is put on a short-list for suicide missions and then executed if they have the gall to survive.
• The Dark Angels enter a pact with a Tau splinter force in order to wipe out the Angels of Absolution.

Edited November 9, 2019 by jaxom

[Master Sheol]

I'm sure there was a lot of love and thought put into War of Secrets, but it's why I'm most likely never going to paint up 40k Dark Angels again.

I agree

90% of DA novels are garbage from the BG point of view (and the good 10% was written ages ago) and War of Secrets is one of the worst ones

If i was a boss in GW i would ORDER to BL to never write again this useless waste of paper called DA novels :D

 

And about the DA ultima successors play them as codex chapters cause there is nothing you can do to make a Unforgiven chapter if we still don't have DA primaris units

 

In that ugly (see above) BG on WD they stated that DA introduced some primaris into DW and RW but if in DW we have aggressors that could look like terminators (but they cannot be real DW cause they cannot teleport into DW Assault like all the rest of the Company) the RW cannot have any use for foot slogging primaris marines in a fast seek and destroy company (they hinted about the use of primaris Vanguard in the RW but they are Just on foot and they cannot go along the RW bikers so they are useless)

We Will have to wait PA about DA to find out new garbage BG (as above) and if we have datasheets for using some primaris units in DW and RW too

But what i really wait Is to find out of there Will be specific DA units in a new DA codex for 9th edition

 

Only with specific primaris DW and RW (and not pushing unfitting units like aggressors in DW or Vanguard in RW) we will be able to make a REAL Ultima Founding Unforgiven Chapter

Until then we Just have Codex Chapters using DA geneseed (they don't have the tools and rules to follow the Unforgiven Mission about the fallen)

Edited November 10, 2019 by Master Sheol

[No Foes Remain]

I shall have to double check but I think it was mentioned in the White Dwarf with the IA:DA that it was only the 'gifted' Primaris they didn't trust, all the ones they recruited from their recruiting worlds were treated better than those who were given to the Unforgiven Legion by Guilliman.

 

 

Edit: Just double checked and it points out that the Unforgiven didn't trust the former Greyshields and the Ultima founding chapters rather than just Primaris.

Edited November 10, 2019 by No Foes Remain

[Master Sheol]

I'm sure there was a lot of love and thought put into War of Secrets, but it's why I'm most likely never going to paint up 40k Dark Angels again.

Yes a love of other chapters and a thought of never sell again a DA model

As they presented the fluff only a fool would identify himself in such a ugly chapter and would like to collect them

Or you are a veteran like me and you erase from your mind all this crap and stay with the good old Nice written DA fluff

 

P.S.: FW and BL don't like 30k DA too cause they have the FIRST legion the nost useless and marginale Rolex in all the Heresy. This is why they out out DA book as last one. Cause nobody Will bè temoted to buy and entire army of a legion that did nothing during the HH