Best Weapon Loadout for IF Intercessors?

[domsto]

So basically the Title.

I got myselfe the Primaris Apocalypse Box and want to build my IF force around that.

But i am not sure how to arm my 30 Intersessors. I will play them in 3 10Men Units to max. the Stratagem buffs.

I thing the Assault Boltgun would be the best option for that. 3 shots per Model al the time is pretty good.

 

But what are your opinions on that?

[Fenriwolf]

I'd go with 2x stalker units and one of either auto or regular

 

Stalkers are pretty versatile on IFs thanks to stacking buffs from the chapter and doctrine, and keeping one squad with one of the other kind leaves you with the option to use the relevant stratagems for the kind you pick and still have a unit that can go for quantity of shots over quality

 

 

Edit: doing the opposite is also viable obviously,it mostly comes down to what the rest of your list needs covered by your troops.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Fenriwolf

[jeremy1391]

In the last tournament I played I ran a 10 man squad of stalkers and a 10 man squad of bolt rifles.

 

Against a marine heavy meta the stalkers were miles better than the regular bolt rifles, and they also performed extremely well against things like disco lords. And you can’t discount the “target sighted” strat. Against chaos a ten man stalker squad will ace any marine character!

[Lemondish]

I'm a fan of the Stalkers as well, but only for their efficacy on the table. If it weren't for how capable they are in the current marine heavy meta shift, I'd be abandoning them for those auto bolt rifles every chance I get. If you have the flexibility in your list building to go wtih the 10 man squad of Stalkers, then just as jeremy1391 says it gives you some great coverage and unlocks a flexible but expensive character sniping option if you just absolutely, positively have to kill a Character as soon as possible. 

 

But for me it's between autos and stalkers - the standard bolt rifle isn't as effective against the same preferred targets as the auto, and those box magazines are rule of cool winners anyway.

[jeremy1391]

I’ve found that the stalker is just too good to pass on. Yes it has less shots but a squad of ten should be able to ace a marine tank or disco lord with ease.

 

And what we lack in number of shots will be made up by our thunder fire cannon, centurions, aggressors Mortis contemptor’s etc.

[Mandragola]

There’s kind of a case for ordinary rifles over ABRs. They’re better against other marines, which is who you need to beat.

 

However, it might just be better to take something like infiltrators or incursors if you want rapid fire stuff. The ability to put troops out in midfield can be huge. That doesn’t leave a lot of space for rapid fire rifles. They’re arguably still a very decent unit - just one with nothing particularly great about it and lots of more interesting alternatives.

[Jolemai]

Finding coming up against AP-3 stalker bolters and no cover save with Scouts a pain tbh...

[MegaVolt87]

Finding coming up against AP-3 stalker bolters and no cover save with Scouts a pain tbh...

 

CSM mid range shooting units and melee characters-

 

*chuckles* I'm in danger. 

[Lemondish]

There’s kind of a case for ordinary rifles over ABRs. They’re better against other marines, which is who you need to beat.

 

However, it might just be better to take something like infiltrators or incursors if you want rapid fire stuff. The ability to put troops out in midfield can be huge. That doesn’t leave a lot of space for rapid fire rifles. They’re arguably still a very decent unit - just one with nothing particularly great about it and lots of more interesting alternatives.

I'm not sure that's true. They seem to be equal until you enter the Tactical Doctrine where the ABR does a slight bit more damage.

 

But the truth is that the Stalker is better than both for those targets. It's the other light infantry the BR and ABR are for. Unfortunately, the Chapter famed for withering fusillades of Bolter fire is urged by the mechanics of the rules to prefer sniper style bolt weaponry on their line troops over volume of fire choices due to their awkward doctrine. This upsets me just a slight bit.

[Mandragola]

 

There’s kind of a case for ordinary rifles over ABRs. They’re better against other marines, which is who you need to beat.

 

However, it might just be better to take something like infiltrators or incursors if you want rapid fire stuff. The ability to put troops out in midfield can be huge. That doesn’t leave a lot of space for rapid fire rifles. They’re arguably still a very decent unit - just one with nothing particularly great about it and lots of more interesting alternatives.

I'm not sure that's true. They seem to be equal until you enter the Tactical Doctrine where the ABR does a slight bit more damage.

 

But the truth is that the Stalker is better than both for those targets. It's the other light infantry the BR and ABR are for. Unfortunately, the Chapter famed for withering fusillades of Bolter fire is urged by the mechanics of the rules to prefer sniper style bolt weaponry on their line troops over volume of fire choices due to their awkward doctrine. This upsets me just a slight bit.

 

 

Yeah I totally agree with you. The doctrine doesn't feel true to the fluff. If there's an army that should be using stalkers it's raven guard, and they aren't particularly good with them. Meanwhile Fists can blow tanks away with them.

 

For the rapid fire guns I was working on the assumption that you'll almost certainly stay in devastator doctrine all game, so that point of AP is worth quite a bit. Once you hit tactical then yes, the ABR is clearly better. But there are still lots of enemies out there with 1 wound, against which two shots from a bolt rifle is fine. That extra ppm for the ABR is basically about right - it's an actual decision on whether to go for it or not.

 

It's kind of an academic discussion though. As I said, I think I'd probably take stalkers for intercessors and then different troops if I wanted other guns. The story is probably different for Imperial Fist players - I play Crimson Fists - as cover-ignoring ABRs are very strong. As a Crimson Fist player I'd probably prefer to pay one more point and get incursors.

[domsto]

But with the Stalker Bolters you lack the Horde killing potential of the other two options.

Also i wouldn't say the Stalker Bolter is good agaistn Vehicals. Yes it does 3 Damage per shot thanks to the Super Doctrine but is only S4 and most Vehicals have T8 so even with the Stratagem you wound only on 5+

Maybe i am Wrong but in my Opinion the Stalker Bolter is actually the worst of the 3.

[Mandragola]

It’s obviously true that stalkers are bad against hordes. The thing is, the rest of your army is probably awesome against them. The doctrine encourages you to spam multi-shot heavy weapons so you probably do. And even stalker intercessors can beat hordes up in melee.

 

It’s an interesting point about vehicles now mostly having T8. Many do, but not all the marine ones people are using. The fact is, marines are now the most powerful army, so you want stuff that’s good for killing marines. Stalkers are far better at it than the other options, and generally pretty good against everyone.

[domsto]

It’s obviously true that stalkers are bad against hordes. The thing is, the rest of your army is probably awesome against them. The doctrine encourages you to spam multi-shot heavy weapons so you probably do. And even stalker intercessors can beat hordes up in melee.

 

It’s an interesting point about vehicles now mostly having T8. Many do, but not all the marine ones people are using. The fact is, marines are now the most powerful army, so you want stuff that’s good for killing marines. Stalkers are far better at it than the other options, and generally pretty good against everyone.

True about the Marines part

Marines are now by far the best Army and every other Army has to have a way to deal with them.

But Killing Marines was easy and still is. All those buff theygot with the Codex 2.0 and the Supplements upped their damage output way over Maximum. But they still die as easy.

In my Last game i lost 26 of my 30 Interessesors Turn 1 against Guard.

[jeremy1391]

It’s obviously true that stalkers are bad against hordes. The thing is, the rest of your army is probably awesome against them. The doctrine encourages you to spam multi-shot heavy weapons so you probably do. And even stalker intercessors can beat hordes up in melee.

 

It’s an interesting point about vehicles now mostly having T8. Many do, but not all the marine ones people are using. The fact is, marines are now the most powerful army, so you want stuff that’s good for killing marines. Stalkers are far better at it than the other options, and generally pretty good against everyone.

There are more T7 vehicles than T8...

 

And with the help of a chaplain giving +1 to wound and the tank hunter strat it makes the stalker extremely viable to kill big T8 vehicles.

[Jolemai]

+1 To Wound is only against the nearest target though. If you're going to castle with Stalkers it's not the most optimal choice.

[jeremy1391]

+1 To Wound is only against the nearest target though. If you're going to castle with Stalkers it's not the most optimal choice.

Yea but if playing against knights chances are the closest unit is going to be a gallant.... which becomes an immediate target priority.

[MegaVolt87]

Primaris have more than enough infantry sweepers available. Taking IF stalker intercessors is not a liability overall. 

[Lemondish]

Primaris have more than enough infantry sweepers available. Taking IF stalker intercessors is not a liability overall.

I think the inverse is true as well. It's actually an interesting place to be in.

 

I've found that the more games I play against different armies, the more I'm seeking balance between the Devastator and Tactical doctrines. Thank the God-Emperor that my local scene doesn't chase the meta quite as hard as I had feared.

[Mandragola]

 

Primaris have more than enough infantry sweepers available. Taking IF stalker intercessors is not a liability overall.

I think the inverse is true as well. It's actually an interesting place to be in.

 

I've found that the more games I play against different armies, the more I'm seeking balance between the Devastator and Tactical doctrines. Thank the God-Emperor that my local scene doesn't chase the meta quite as hard as I had feared.

 

 

My take is that right now we’re in a strange “everything is awesome” situation. You can genuinely take a large number of units from the codex, arm them pretty much how you want, and have an army that works at least reasonably well.

 

So it’s impossible to argue that ABRs with exploding 6s and ignore cover/+1 to hit vs hordes are bad – because they’re obviously good. And normal bolt rifles are fine too – perhaps not that exceptional, but perfectly functional. -1ap and ignoring cover is pretty nasty on a gun being carried by a troop, with 2 shots at 30”.

 

I’m finding this across the list. I’ve drawn up tons of army lists lately and the major problem I’m having is picking between so many different good choices. I’m even looking at using a brigade, which would have been kind of crazy in the past. Now we have a lot of good units for <100 points like our troops, TFCs, eliminators, whirlwinds, stalkers and suppressors. Good units like aggressors, inceptors and invictors are also very affordable, at a little over 100.

[Zustiur]

I just ordered Shadowspear from Amazon specifically so I can start running a brigade. I needed the 3rd fast attack.

[Son of Sacrifice]

After playing my third game with the new book, I'm sticking with regular bolt rifle intercessors. I have yet to come out of devastator doctrine, I like the baseline AP-1 and the bolt rifle strategem can be monstrous when the stars align. If I had 20 auto bolt rifle intercessors I may be saying otherwise, but I like the regular bolt rifle enough not to consider building new troop squads.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

It depends on your meta also. My local meta focuses on bodies over high toughness vehicles. Except for Knights. Which are everywhere. So for me the Auto Bolt Rifle is clutch. Especially against GSC, Necrons, and Tau.

 

Death watch hell blaster bombs were kinda hard to deal with before, but now with things like infiltrators and incursors ita not a real issue.

 

I do like to take a mix though. 2 ABR and 2 SBR/BR with grenade launchers. I always give the sergeants chain swords since they are free for the additional attack. I've seen several high end lists run them with Thunder Hammers which isn't a bad option either.

 

I haven't broke down and built new sergeants to accommodate that yet. But if I do put a thunder hammer on a squad it will more than likely be veteran auto bolt rifles since they want to be up close and personal.

[Son of Sacrifice]

I have one squad with a thunderhammer and one with a power fist. So far I'm finding the power fist more useful, the thunderhammer is overkill against most units intercessors end up in combat with.

[domsto]

so i had finally time to test my Imperial Fists. i have to say i am not impressed with the Stalkerboltrifle.

It was pretty lackluster against my enemy's Chaos force. He played 3 Venomcrawler with 2 Discolords i couln'd gun down any of them.

Well i quess it's time for some proper antitank stuff like Hellblasters.

[Son of Sacrifice]

Really funny that you say that. I played against chaos last night, and my stalkers (5) accounted for two venom crawlers. Tor Garadon punched the head of the disco lord.