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Siege of Terra - Saturnine by Dan Abnett


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#726
Petitioner's City

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@StrangerOrders I do not disagree with you, but I think that ship has sailed. Especially with Guilliman having returned in40k and more or less same person....that’s what we were gonna get.

i mean, it would have been neat to have had Russ be a St. Bernard, Sanguinius have been an imaginary friend and a Horus just be an imperial army commander who is one helluva leader able to convince half the imperium to turn rogue, and the Emperor is actually all too human whose “secret project” down in the “Imperial Dungeon” was in fact an all too human distraction. “It’s good to be the king...” ;)

...and then after 10,000 years it’s become these Greek gods each representing some virtue or vice and Horus is made out to be corrupted by unfathomable power because the idea of a mortal general almost conquering back the entire Imperium is far too dangerous an idea to get out to the masses.


.....but no, GW/FW/BL went a different route and we already have what we have so I don’t see the harm in the literal take on things continuing. Besides, the core truths of momentous events tend to stick around and even their most embellished retellings have the core premise right.


A wonderful idea! A shame there wasn't more of this ;)
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#727
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Spoiler


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+Quod vult valde vult+


#728
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Spoiler

 

Presumably everyone at the meetings and the editors, as a single author would not be able to slip something that important in to their finished product like it was nothing.

 

The lore is changing, as it has been since the novel series began. It doesn't seem especially out of the ordinary at this point, IMO.


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#729
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Not really a fan of the premise of that change and its ramifications, truth be told, especially since it has some implications for one of the Siege prequel novellas and a Primarchs novel, but whether it will end up a boon for the Siege series or a cursed retcon remains to be seen in the following books; it's one of those elements that one author sets up for the next to follow up on, like Gav ending The First Wall with John Grammaticus so Dan could take up the baton running.

 

It could be a terrible addition, or it could fall into place neatly. We'll have to see what the next author in line does with it.

Spoiler

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#730
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Spoiler

 

Presumably everyone at the meetings and the editors, as a single author would not be able to slip something that important in to their finished product like it was nothing.

 

The lore is changing, as it has been since the novel series began. It doesn't seem especially out of the ordinary at this point, IMO.

 

There's changing, and then there's throwing random M. Night Shyamalan style twists like a hack that overturns decades of army book lore for no other reason than to weigh down the series with even more needless "changes" that serve to add nothing to the thematic arc of the Horus Heresy. Or even worse, completely erode it.

Spoiler


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#731
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#732
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Spoiler

 


 


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#733
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Spoiler

 


 

 

They

Spoiler


Edited by Volt, 05 April 2020 - 02:44 AM.

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#734
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They

Spoiler

 

 

 

Ah, touche. I had sort of assumed it happened so they could have more people to kill / there'll probably be very few of them. I'll be honest it doesn't bother me as the big boi himself won't be showing on time, but I can see the frustration.


Edited by Roomsky, 05 April 2020 - 02:48 AM.

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#735
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Your opinion is important, and someone posting here probably does care what you think. You should go tell them. Remember that it really hurts to come up with an idea you care about and have no one else care. Go care about something and tell them what you think. Now. Think of what it would have meant to you when you were young.

 

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#736
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Spoiler

 

Spoiler



#737
Marshal Loss

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Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Rohr's point is that

 

Spoiler

 

edit: repeated word


Edited by Marshal Loss, 05 April 2020 - 12:08 PM.

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#738
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Spoiler

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Your opinion is important, and someone posting here probably does care what you think. You should go tell them. Remember that it really hurts to come up with an idea you care about and have no one else care. Go care about something and tell them what you think. Now. Think of what it would have meant to you when you were young.

 

+++The Iterators Guild+++

A Group for Lore Minded Hobbyists and World Building Projects

 


#739
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Gotcha. 



#740
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#741
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Spoiler

 

I'm surprised you found it so plot-driven, I thought it was exceptionally pushed forward by character, especially in the segments surrounding Krole and the army. 

 

I think at this point we have to acknowledge that Sangy as we see him is how he's going to be. I certainly found him likable here, he's quite proactive despite his situation.


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#742
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I started getting mad at b1soul for not having read the previous two books before Saturnine and having the gall to comment on it....and then I remembered the whole "drive for canonicity can be toxic" debate on these very forums...and laughed at myself for being such a jerk. Is not the attitude of "my experience/way of approaching a hobby is the RIGHT WAY" one of the very problems that can lead to such bull - :cuss on the inter webs? I must be getting old. You damn kids and your loud Noise Marines...

 

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About the topic being discussed in Spoilers

Spoiler

 

I've said it before and will continue to say it until my words are carved in stone, wrapped around my neck, and used to drown me: it's not what you do in a story, but how you do it that matters. 


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Call me Indy. It's less syllables.

 

 

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#743
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Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Rohr's point is that

 

Spoiler

 

edit: repeated word

 

Spoiler


Edited by Volt, 05 April 2020 - 11:39 PM.

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#744
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Spoiler


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"And then Horus landed on the Moon, which looked like the moon. Funny that, isn't it?"


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#745
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Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Rohr's point is that

 

Spoiler

 

edit: repeated word

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

This is actually a really good take!


Edited by Marshal Loss, 06 April 2020 - 12:07 AM.

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#746
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Spoiler
Spoiler

 

and i'm surprised about this  novel not being driven by character. even the spoilers i've read seem laden with character moments and deep understandings of their motivations. all the actions seem to be motivated. but then, i'm one of the ones that would argue KNF is as much a character piece as it is plot driven.


Edited by mc warhammer, 06 April 2020 - 12:21 AM.

'WHEN WE CONFRONTED THE CORRUPTED, HOMICIDAL HORUS WHO ONCE USED TO SHINE LIKE THE BRIGHTEST STAR, WHO USED TO BE OUR BELOVED FAVOURITE – WHEN THE FATE OF THE GALAXY HUNG BY A THREAD – WERE WE NOT COMPELLED TO EXPEL ALL COMPASSION? ALL LOVE? ALL JOY? THOSE WENT AWAY. HOW ELSE COULD WE HAVE ARMOURED OURSELVES? EXISTENCE IS TORMENT, A TORMENT THAT MUST NOURISH US. EVIDENTLY WE MUST STRIVE TO BE THE FIERCE REDEEMER OF MAN, YET WHAT WILL REDEEM US?’

 

#747
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Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

This is actually a really good take!

 

There isn't room. Contrary to popular belief 40k is actually barely removed by 30k in terms of generations due to the sheer lifespan of people. You can have as little as just 2 dreadnoughts removed from a Chapter knowing exact information about what happened in 30k due to one brother talking to another brother as dreadnoughts have lifespans measured in millennia. Considering that marines also tend to have eidetic memories, it'd be quite hard for information to be fudged up by M41 as the Chapter should have fairly fresh witness testimony from that time period. In a similar manner, the Mechanicus isn't that removed from the 30k era either.


Edited by Volt, 06 April 2020 - 12:30 AM.

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#748
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Spoiler



Spoiler


This is actually a really good take!
There isn't room. Contrary to popular belief 40k is actually barely removed by 30k in terms of generations due to the sheer lifespan of people. You can have as little as just 2 dreadnoughts removed from a Chapter knowing exact information about what happened in 30k due to one brother talking to another brother as dreadnoughts have lifespans measured in millennia. Considering that marines also tend to have eidetic memories, it'd be quite hard for information to be fudged up by M41 as the Chapter should have fairly fresh witness testimony from that time period. In a similar manner, the Mechanicus isn't that removed from the 30k era either.
one lifespan is enough for info to get muddled.

even within that one lifespan, we just have to look at all the misinformation afloat in our current society on modern events to see how unreliable things are.

and there's also the question of who has access to what information. dark angel dreadnought ancient brother lemielielaswain might know exactly what went down, but does the average dark angel marine have access to lemielielaswain's accounts? or a cousin marine of the iron hands legion who were in tatters during the siege and not exactly keeping immaculate records or in the soundest state of mind? does the average imperial citizen and so on.

on a related note, adb and spurrier have done a great job of showing how even astartes with eidetic memories who lived through the exact same scenarios come away with divergent interpretations of those events.

Edited by mc warhammer, 06 April 2020 - 07:12 AM.

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'WHEN WE CONFRONTED THE CORRUPTED, HOMICIDAL HORUS WHO ONCE USED TO SHINE LIKE THE BRIGHTEST STAR, WHO USED TO BE OUR BELOVED FAVOURITE – WHEN THE FATE OF THE GALAXY HUNG BY A THREAD – WERE WE NOT COMPELLED TO EXPEL ALL COMPASSION? ALL LOVE? ALL JOY? THOSE WENT AWAY. HOW ELSE COULD WE HAVE ARMOURED OURSELVES? EXISTENCE IS TORMENT, A TORMENT THAT MUST NOURISH US. EVIDENTLY WE MUST STRIVE TO BE THE FIERCE REDEEMER OF MAN, YET WHAT WILL REDEEM US?’

 

#749
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Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

This is actually a really good take!

 

There isn't room. Contrary to popular belief 40k is actually barely removed by 30k in terms of generations due to the sheer lifespan of people. You can have as little as just 2 dreadnoughts removed from a Chapter knowing exact information about what happened in 30k due to one brother talking to another brother as dreadnoughts have lifespans measured in millennia. Considering that marines also tend to have eidetic memories, it'd be quite hard for information to be fudged up by M41 as the Chapter should have fairly fresh witness testimony from that time period. In a similar manner, the Mechanicus isn't that removed from the 30k era either.

 

 

Spoiler


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#750
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Spoiler

 

Maybe i'm overthinking it, but it seems like the sort of binding up elements of actual old lore with the subsequent real world retcons that Dan would go for considering the way he's seemingly taking the Pius story.






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