Can the Fallen be tainted by Chaos?

[Aothaine]

I don't recall ever seeing any of the Fallen being mutated by Chaos. Anyone of this? Can fallen be tainted?

[Marshal Loss]

There's a Fallen named Marbas who has ascended and become a DP (the only Fallen so far, apparently), so the answer is a definite yes, they can be tainted/mutated and many no doubt are.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Marshal Loss

[Deadman Wade]

Yes, for example, a Fallen named Marbas is a Daemon Prince. Some others like Zhebdek Abaddas, worship chaos gods and recieve their "gifts".

Edited November 14, 2019 by Deadman Wade

[Bryan Blaire]

IIRC, at least one of the Fallen in the Legacy of Caliban trilogy was mutated by Nurgle on the station.

[Grotsmasha]

Yes, there's a novel where this happens, it's about a Rogue Trader .... Execution Hour, or maybe its sequel?

Edited November 15, 2019 by Grotsmasha

[Filkarion]

As far as I know it happens more often then not, turning the astartes into a "proper" Chaos Space Marine.

The "Fallen" Chaos/Imperium elite datasheet represent those that resist the corruption and remain in the "gray zone" between SM and CSM, in a way they are the exception

[UtariOnzo]

The lore since 2nd edition has described Fallen as ranging from those sincerely sorry for their misbegotten actions, trying to ‘redeem’ themselves by integrating in the societies they find themselves in, all the way up to those that follow chaos. One of the senior leaders in the early Black Legion is/was a Fallen, we have a Fallen Daemon Prince and the Fallen in the War of Secrets novel used heretical Psychic abilities. They are absolutely corruptable.

[shabbadoo]

The Fallen are in Codex: Chaos Space Marines for a reason. They would fall within the classification of Chaos Undivided forces. They are not overtly literal Chaos Worshipers, but DANG do they have a more than a few infamous leaders who are/were despots, depraved sorcerers, daemon princes, and even an older non-space marine merely enhanced human (i.e. Luther) who was so infused with the power of the Chaos gods that he could stand toe-to-toe with a Primarch. That is something requiring a tad bit more than a simple shot of Chaos steroids from Fabius Bile. The Fallen are not merely cast-out Renegades. They are a bit more than that. The core of The fallen seems to compare closely enough to a force like the Red Corsairs, who as it so happens are made up of former members of *HUNDREDS* of Loyalist Legions/Chapters. The only thing unique about The Fallen in comparison to the Rad Corsairs is that The Fallen all hail from a *single* parent Legion, and are not simply opportunistic pirates. Over 10,000 years, The Fallen have acquired further membership from the various Unforgiven Chapters, as every Chapter has members whose convictions are found to be wanting. And those are likely more often than not funneled into the web of lies and deceit spun by the now free and on-the-loose Luther (who never received any "magical panacea" for being infused with the power of the chaos Gods to the point that he could challenge a Primarch) or before Luther's release to the other aforementioned overtly Chaos corrupted members of The Fallen's leadership. The Fallen are not misrepresented anti-heroes in any way, shape, or form; just usually somewhat less overt Chaos scum.

 

But that is not completely true, is it. There is an exception in the form of the most notorious of The Fallen, that being Cypher. It would seem that, while Luther is a corrupted piece of Chaos scum, and used his influence while consigned to Caliban to lead those under his command down the path to damnation (some of whom eventually realized what had happened and sought redemption, or just fell into disillusionment and went renegade), Cypher was up to other things. Cypher, who was also present on Caliban at that same time, sought to lead some of those who would also be declared Fallen towards another fate, but they have overall been lumped in with Luther's damned followers - The Fallen - anyways (i.e. guilt by geographical association). Cypher seems to have his own group of followers among The Fallen, and these are The Fallen that, along with Cypher, inhabit that gray area of loyalties. When people think of The Fallen as mysterious/romanticized anti-heroes of 40K lore, it is Cypher and his followers that they are thinking of. This group could really just be inhabiting the gray area of loyalty, but they could instead very well be the most loyal and shining saviors of the First Legion. After all, Cypher has been captured multiple times over the millennia, and has very purposely been released by Dark Angels Chapter Masters  every single time, and there is obviously a very good reason for them all to do that. Time will tell.

 

So, can The Fallen be corrupted by Chaos? Surely they can be, as is the case with any Space Marine; just not all of The Fallen have been corrupted by Chaos. It would be a mistake to think of The Fallen in one-dimensional terms. There is so much more to them than being named traitors, which is why they are so interesting.

Edited November 16, 2019 by shabbadoo

[Dark Rage]

There's Corpulax of the Consecrators who turned to Nurgle, I do believe many of the fallen don't however follow gods and are just 'lost' and are not sure what they should be doing.

[Robbienw]

Corpulax was not a fallen. He was a member of the consecraters chapter in the 41st millennium who died and was reanimated by the a nurgle zombie virus. In the Pandorax novel, the Dark Angels explain to him why he is not considered a fallen and execute him without fanfare on the battlefield :D

 

There are many examples of chaos Fallen though.

[Neuralshock]

My personal head theory is that Cypher is a psychic manifestation of the Lion who is guiding the DA to where they need to be to counter the chaos fallen. This could explain how space batman is about to waltz through fortresses and escape the inescapable custodes prison.

[Zustiur]

After all, Cypher has been captured multiple times over the millennia, and has very purposely been released by Dark Angels Chapter Masters every single time, and there is obviously a very good reason for them all to do that.

Wait, what?I thought he always slipped away and had never been captured. Edited December 1, 2019 by Zustiur

[Isual]

 

After all, Cypher has been captured multiple times over the millennia, and has very purposely been released by Dark Angels Chapter Masters every single time, and there is obviously a very good reason for them all to do that.

Wait, what?I thought he always slipped away and had never been captured.

 

 

It was stated many times that he was captured like shabbadoo said. He just has the habbit of disappearing from prison cells if thats the case. Last time was from the Adeptus Custodes Cells when Guilliman paddled back on his promise to let him talk to big E.

[Guest MistaGav]

I think the one in the war of secrets novel is a Tzeentchian or Spanish psyker too.

[shabbadoo]

Yeah. You gotta watch out for those Spanish psykers. Verrry tricky, those Spanish psykers. I think auto-correct got you, and you meant "Slaanesh," not "Spanish."

 

 

After all, Cypher has been captured multiple times over the millennia, and has very purposely been released by Dark Angels Chapter Masters every single time, and there is obviously a very good reason for them all to do that.

Wait, what?I thought he always slipped away and had never been captured.

 

One of the more recent novels, in which Cypher is once again captured by the Dark Angels, states that Cypher had previously been captured six times (iirc), and that in each instance the six different Supreme Grand Masters of the Dark Angels voluntarily released him. In this book he is released once again, this time by Supreme Grand Master Azrael, after Cypher privately explains these past captures and the reason for his release. This conversation is, of course, not featured in the book. Can't give away Cypher's BIG SECRET after all.

 

EDIT: the novel this is in is the one which features the final days of Caliban, its explosion, the warp rift created, etc. I forget the name of it.

 

And so we have at least three possibilities for Cypher:

 

1. He is a full-on Traitor, but is seen to be a necessary evil because he has an important role to play that benefits The Unforgiven.

 

2. He is an independent agent pursuing his own goals, which just so happen to benefit The Unforgiven.

 

3. He is a True Son of the Lion and loyal follower of The Emperor who has sacrificed his own reputation (and that of other like-minded Fallen who follow him, and who are obviously not Chaos scum) due to his pursuit of ends The Unforgiven can not or would not pursue themselves, and which if not dealt with would lead to the downfall of the Unforgiven and/or Imperium. In essence he is a martyr, with an unquestionably noble end that justifies the means.

 

Any of the three could be true, though based on the lore to this point, I think that option 3 is the most likely. Perhaps sprinkle in a bit of option 2 out of necessity, due to the state of The Unforgiven, that being a bit too much of a concern for reputation over achieving the goal of eradicating The Fallen who are actual Chaos-scum (and who might have already been wiped out had The Imperium been made aware of them from the beginning).

Edited December 4, 2019 by shabbadoo

[MegaVolt87]

Pretty sure there is a large contingent of Fallen CSM in the BL as one of Abaddon's more elite formations. 

[Zustiur]

Thanks for filling me in. Clearly I need to read the 40k Dark angels novels some time.