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Returning to Warhammer 40K: starting the Night Lords

Night Lords Chaos Space Marines Starting

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#1
Magnus Thane

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After a long time i'm returning to the WH40K fold more for the hobby than playing.
I had to get rid of a lot of stuff to make space and r/l reasons. (a move for one)

 

I did keep the collection of stuff I had gathered over the years for a Night Lords project that I never got around to.


I have quite a lot of Space Marines (vanilla,) on the sprue, some Space Wolves on sprue, a bit of CSMs on Sprue, roughly 2 sets of Dark Vengeance chaos set and a few Dark Vengeance Dark Angels lying around.

This means I also have like 2 Hellbrutes I think to field.
A handful of metal CSMs that are OOP. (black blister with golden warhammer logo)

1 box of Assault Marines.

1 metal sorcerer.

A box of Scenic bases.

And... a lot of Night Lord conversion bitz. Both the GW ones and some external ones.

Shoulderpads, creepy helmets and quite a lot of jetpacks.

 

My plan was and is to go for the 'plunder armor' through the years. And go for the popular interpretation from the novels where Night Lords are super elite marines desperately looting supplies from the enemy but also ideas from standalone novels such as the use of cultist forces etc.
I believe the Carcharadon novel had some nice stuff in it about the Night Lords using paramilitary / semi disciplined Cultists. The Black Hand or something? I may be mistaken. 

 

Now due to financial reasons I want to try and keep the costs limited only picking up a thing or 2 once in a while.

 

 

1) Given that it'll take quite a while to finish this project I'm hoping to keep things somewhat simple and thematic. Preferably with a focus on footsloggers.

2) I will invest in good scenic bases for the cultists and heroes -> adds a bit of flavor.

Now I did have questions for you guys.
I want the list to work but not be hypercompetitive. But at least decent.

I'm going for safe choices where possible that will remain valid long term. 
 

Do you guys have some tips on:

 

1) Small or great CSM squads? 5 or 10 man squads and what weapon combinations? I was surprised to find that unlike in the days of long ago a lot of people seem to like to play with 5 man CSM squads.
2) What weapons/equipment should I give the basic CSMs? Back when I played it was a good thing to give them sword and pistol. I seem to remember people liking to field them with the Khornate and Chaos Undivided icon.
3) How big would you field Raptor squads and with what armaments?

4) Cultists should be barebones equipment wise? Or as upgraded and big as possible?

5) The Dark Vengeance guys are clearly Chosen. Any suggestions on their use?

 

Tactic wise. If I wanted to go heavy on footsloggers. Would this work somewhat decently:

 

1) Protective meatshield(s) of Cultists. (2x 20 man groups?)

 

2) Havocs using Lascannons and the likes I steal from Space Marine sprues for firepower.

3) Several small squads of kitbashed Raptors to swoop in and swarm isolated units?

 

4) Follow up the cultists wave with the CSMs, who in turn are followed by 2 or so squads of Chosen and a suitable HQ or 2? (basically a 3 wave offensive with it's flanks protected by the Hellbrutes and the Raptors?)

 

 

5) Finally there was a new Start Collecting Box announced and a Strike Force. 

The strike force is good value for money (but pricey still!) and i'm no longer a big fan of Rhino and Termies. (used them in the past too much in my Black Legion and Dark Angels)

The Start Collecting set is affordable and looks like it might mix in well with what I got. Though supposedly they're not very kitbasheable?
What do you people think of it in the context of Night Lords?

 

6) I am very unfamiliar with the units in the Start Collecting Box. Apparently it's recycled from Shadowspear?
Is it worth doubling up on this set?
I noticed there are possessed in there which were never that good. Are they now?
And Obliterators which I used with my old Black Legion (my first 40K army at least 15 years ago!!!) but they were not that loved.

 

7) Bonusquestion. Are Chaos Bikers better nowadays? They are expensive and in the past always lambasted as being awful. But they might fit the NL theme somewhat. And I never used bikes in the past.

 

 

Stupid questions probably...
But it has been a long time!

 

AVE DOMINUS NOX!!!

 

 


  • Captain_Krash likes this

Boxed and finished: Grey Knights and Black Legion.
New armies in development: Dark Angels (mostly Greenwing) and Red Corsairs


Mishra's Playground in Flanders, Halle:
http://z4.invisionfr...dex.php?act=idx


#2
Closet Skeleton

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The marines in shadowspear can be kitbashed fine, easier than the dark vengeance chosen at any rate. The Possessed in there are two Greater Possessed who buff the strength of regular possessed and fight as elite choices of 1.

 

Best chaos space marine unit is either a full blob of twenty or 5 with heavy bolter, boltguns and combi-bolter and chainsword on the champion to be cheap and hold ground. All of them need cover to not just evaporate.

 

Bikers are okay if you're prepared to use them tactically and also have a lot of shots. Damage 2 weapons melt them if there's no other target.

 

Lascannon havocs are too expensive since havocs are now caped at 5 strong so can't take ablative wounds. Spammed autocannon or heavy bolter havocs are very good.

 

Raptors have to either be 5 man deepstrike units with 2 plasma and combi-plasma or the melta equivilants or big 15 man units that need sorcerers babysitting them to getting into combat.


Edited by Closet Skeleton, 15 November 2019 - 02:29 PM.

  • Magnus Thane likes this

#3
Magnus Thane

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The marines in shadowspear can be kitbashed fine, easier than the dark vengeance chosen at any rate. The Possessed in there are two Greater Possessed who buff the strength of regular possessed and fight as elite choices of 1.

 

Best chaos space marine unit is either a full blob of twenty or 5 with heavy bolter, boltguns and combi-bolter and chainsword on the champion to be cheap and hold ground. All of them need cover to not just evaporate.

 

Bikers are okay if you're prepared to use them tactically and also have a lot of shots. Damage 2 weapons melt them if there's no other target.

 

Lascannon havocs are too expensive since havocs are now caped at 5 strong so can't take ablative wounds. Spammed autocannon or heavy bolter havocs are very good.

 

Raptors have to either be 5 man deepstrike units with 2 plasma and combi-plasma or the melta equivilants or big 15 man units that need sorcerers babysitting them to getting into combat.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

...I did not realize the CSMs had sunk so low... Oo;

 

I presume the blob of 20 is for if you go melee with them?
 

These Greater Possessed are worth fielding on their own? (trying to gaug the usefulness of that box)

 

Are landraiders and rhinos actually still used a lot?


Boxed and finished: Grey Knights and Black Legion.
New armies in development: Dark Angels (mostly Greenwing) and Red Corsairs


Mishra's Playground in Flanders, Halle:
http://z4.invisionfr...dex.php?act=idx


#4
Wayniac

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Don't forget the awesome Reaper Chaincannon for 5-man CSM. 8 (!) shots with the same stats as a heavy bolter but only 24" range; while that seems like a loss it synergizes well with boltguns and the 8 shots helps offset the -1 if you have to move. Most people say to put them on havocs and have a 24" range of death to anything but don't underestimate having them spread out in normal squads.
  • Magnus Thane and Iron Father Ferrum like this

- Wayne aka "Wayniac the Indecisive"


#5
Magnus Thane

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Don't forget the awesome Reaper Chaincannon for 5-man CSM. 8 (!) shots with the same stats as a heavy bolter but only 24" range; while that seems like a loss it synergizes well with boltguns and the 8 shots helps offset the -1 if you have to move. Most people say to put them on havocs and have a 24" range of death to anything but don't underestimate having them spread out in normal squads.

 

Thanks for the tip!!!


Boxed and finished: Grey Knights and Black Legion.
New armies in development: Dark Angels (mostly Greenwing) and Red Corsairs


Mishra's Playground in Flanders, Halle:
http://z4.invisionfr...dex.php?act=idx


#6
Closet Skeleton

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Thanks for the feedback!

...I did not realize the CSMs had sunk so low... Oo;

 

I presume the blob of 20 is for if you go melee with them?
 

These Greater Possessed are worth fielding on their own? (trying to gaug the usefulness of that box)

 

Are landraiders and rhinos actually still used a lot?

 

Taking a landraider is basically a fail condition. Not enough firepower when empty and too expensive as a transport when so many chaos units teleport.

 

I found Rhinos to be very good especially with the second combi-bolter as an upgrade. The havoc launcher is more miss than hit but I took them anyway.

 

Greater Possessed are probably better on their own than buffing possessed who don't benefit much from +1 strength anyway (their weakness is the random attacks) but I've never seen one in a tournament list. They also buff any <Legion> daemon so can combo with an awful lot of things. Only time I used them it was a narrative event and they did better than the possessed they were trying to buff (who just died).

 

Blobs of twenty are for hiding in a crater near an objective and firing bolters. Not great with Night Lords since unlike Black Legion and Iron Warriors they don't have easy access to morale mitigation.

 

Don't forget the awesome Reaper Chaincannon for 5-man CSM. 8 (!) shots with the same stats as a heavy bolter but only 24" range; while that seems like a loss it synergizes well with boltguns and the 8 shots helps offset the -1 if you have to move. Most people say to put them on havocs and have a 24" range of death to anything but don't underestimate having them spread out in normal squads.

 

The 24" range is a big issue if you're objective camping but I've never seen chaincannon havoc squads do well.


Edited by Closet Skeleton, 16 November 2019 - 11:21 AM.


#7
Doom Herald

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I found that bikers work well now that we have Bolter Discipline. Give the biker champ a second Combi-Bolter. I have a 5-man squad that puts out 24 bolter shots after 14" movement and you can still add specialist weapons on top of it. Weapons that do more than one damage tend to melt them though.

I always run Raptors as 5-man squads with max plasma. I drop 2 units with a Lord with max plasma and supercharge all the squads plasma. It's a nice delete button.

Oblits I didn't think I would like, but they usually do REALLY well. Deepstrike them and they eat things. They are usually tough enough to take a lot of damage too. One popular method of using them is to make them Nurgle and deepstrike them with a Feculent Gnarlmaw (provides extra cover to NURGLE DAEMONs).

Greater Possessed are good characters, the buff is ok, but they shine in melee on their own.

I don't usually use many large units or the troops from CSM Codex. In addition to the Morale issue, large units are easier to kill than several small units because of the way the shooting phase works. You have to declare what weapons are firing at who for the whole shooting unit before any dice are rolled. Look at it as condition A vs condition B:
A) You have a 20-man unit that your enemy is shooting at, 12 shots hit, wound, and go through saves. You lose 12 1-wound models and have to make a morale check against the losses which will probably kill your unit.

B) Your oponent makes the same number of successful wounds/damage but you have 4 5-man units. Your oponent either declared all shots at a single unit, which results in only that unit being lost along with the 7 excess damage or they split it between your units. In the latter case, you might have whole units untouched or suffering only small casualties (and passing the resultant morale) or in worst case, split evenly among your units resulting in 4 2-man units needing to make morale against 3 lost models which is still better odds than the 8 trying to make morale vs 12 casualties.





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