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Warhammer Crime


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#51
Xisor

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I'm not so sure about this imprint at all. I don't actually read or watch any modern Crime fiction, but i did get that mafia tv series The Supranos as a christmas gift and the thing was just full of nasty, bigoted men swearing, extorting and killing people. A race to the bottom with no condemnation in sight!. It compels me to write off the entire crime genre.

Not sure if we have been reading the same books but the entire Imperium is built by nasty xenophobic little men and women who despise pretty much everyone who is even marginally different from them. They do an awful lot of killing and plenty of extortion when the mood is right. Condemning the extortionists or the bigots usually will earn you a one way trip to the emperor.
What you say you dislike is pretty much 40k. I’m confused.
I do love a chink of decency in any fiction no matter how dark and a good author will always work in some grace or hope into a story. It’s what makes ADB night lords so good, you see decency among the crazy badness. Or the ghosts stories are utterly hopeless but they have all the human emotions good and bad floating about. The Supranos has good deeds done (that usually backfire!).
But if your looking for a group of social reformers fighting for woke ideals you won’t find it in the 41st millennium.
Maybe Mike Brooks wants to write a 41st millennium Greta Thunberg series about her campaigning against the mechanicum pollution criminals. Or Gav Thorpe will write a book for abhuman rights and better social housing for mutants. A kindly old ork who only wants peace with the humans and is kind to the grots?
Eldar fiction is the closest to this you will get and few people seem to buy it, which is a massive pitty.

A single-minded dedication to averting the ultimate fate of humanity, and an utter contempt for the stuffy order that's a breeding ground for chaotic consequences that'll bring about untold ruin?

Mate, Greta is the only credible Inquisitor about. ;)

Railing against wokeness does also put me in mind of absolutely anyone in a sandwich board droning on about the end of days.

But enough of vivisecting regurgitated, unchewed talking points.

----

Crime's exemplar isn't really The Sopranos - if anything, that's just drama that involves crime.

Crime fiction tends to revolve around unravelling mysteries - conspiracy, mechanical procedures, whodunnits... All that. It's a gargantuan genre though, and dwarfs scifi in the same way romance dwarfs almost everything.

In terms of whether the books will be to one's tastes, the big question is probably about tone and theme - less so about specific detail and content.

E.g. The Sopranos is just a drama lense - it's likely closer to Eastenders or Hollyoaks than it is to Murder She Wrote or Luther.

That is: it's principally a multi-character drama, where the sweep of the story is a big hook, but the central core isn't about a particular resolvable Thing. (I've watched v little Sopranos.)

Unlike cop dramas (not The Bill, but the Wire) - there's a wealth of detail and interaction about which all the stuff hangs and intertwines.

Amusingly, Knocklaugh's bizarrely conservative and stuffy take gets absurdly close to the money - Mike Brooks' Rites of Passage is a crime story in all but a few specifics.

It's about unravelling & resolving a mystery - essentially.

The mystery isn't just murder-mystery, and the investigators aren't event necessarily investigators (let alone cops), but the whole thing's there.

Same applies from the other side - which is where the Sopranos analogy will likely come in: opposing murder mysteries is the story of murderers. Its analogous to True Crime as a genre, but not entirely. Heists and whatnot also fit the bill.

But in all those cases, the tone and focus will be what makes it enjoyable. Do you want to see world building, do you want to explore the mechanisms, do you want a theme park ride allowing you to explore ideas?

Or are you more caring about specific types of ride? Or specific recurring details (a mystery, a lot of clues/red herrings, a congregation in the drawing room for a big reveal), or something different still: characters working against a clock? Characters going about their evil business? Corrupt cops with a heart of obsidian/gold?

I'm quite intrigued by Varangantua - mainly as I'm actually fairly indifferent to a lot of character stuff, but a huge fan of seeing things explored and mechanically prodded/stress tested in fiction.

If there's a good verisimilitude to it, I might be incredibly enthusiastic. (Just like Necromunda.)

---

And for Crime - I imagine they'll do non Varangantua stuff eventually, just that if they can focus and get a good buzz/hook on the idea of the story, then it'll work well in contrast to WH Horror's more dispersed and 'anything, anywhere" feel. (Up to and including Kim Newman's old take on the Warhammer World.)
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#52
Noserenda

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Crime stories are as old as Warhammer novels, be interested to see how the latest set shake out! 



#53
fire golem

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I’m pretty sure the Sopranos thing was a joke based on Knockagh writing off modern horror as a whole because the only modern horror media they’ve consumed is Hostel. 


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#54
Knockagh

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I’m pretty sure the Sopranos thing was a joke based on Knockagh writing off modern horror as a whole because the only modern horror media they’ve consumed is Hostel.


Yes I did do that didn’t I, hahaha.

Fiction as always is down to taste. Thankfully BL has a large enough setting and scope of authors to cope with us all.

I know I was particularly vocal in my opposition to horror but since it has absolutely no bearing on the timeline I’m now pretty happy that horror is now siphoned off into its own section were folks can enjoy or ignore. Again BL proves itself smarter than me, not much of a suprise.
Was my opposition to horror slightly hypocritical given my support for crime? Absolutely....
Tonight is sandwich board painting night! I’m thinking of getting a big brass bell..

#55
Xisor

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Well, I'd best wind my neck in too, woops! All is now in good order :D

And I might join you on the sandwich boards. I was thinking of maybe a few one-man-band trappings - foot controlled snare, harmonica-on-a-stand (maybe that's what Magnus' nipple horns are for? [I always thought hands-free for books & scrolls]), knee-cymbals...
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#56
b1soul

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I think a single hive planet should provide the stories with a welcome degree of cohesion.

I am interested in how they plan to differentiate this planet from Necromunda. I'm thinking of a Varangantua with echoes of Nostrand. Not quite as wild as Necromunda but perhaps more sinister. Also a good chance for some in-depth, nitty gritty world-building of a brand new setting. Depth might beat breadth if this is done well.
EDIT: *Nostramo
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#57
Xisor

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That's a fair call, B1soul, though I'm confident that it might be tonally distinct from Necromunda, if not "seriously" distinct.

Think of the staples of Necromunda - Houses/Gangs - that can be exchanged in favour of a much more diffuse corporate structure, or perhaps a more feudal anarchic form where overarching monopolies have been steadfastly forbidden except by the very uppermost tiers.

There's a lot of variation, but considering it - I'd probably not kick up too much fuss of it's essentially a reskinned Necromunda - gangs, 6 big aristocratic-industrial houses with distinct flavours, and a lot of wild-west-in-iron-caves...

Indeed, it'd be intriguing also if Varangantua is a much younger Hive World than Necromunda - more life (politics) outside the Hives and about what the world is doing, not just its own inexorable grinding existence.

More coming and going, more fluidity almost.

---

Now I've got the bug to try fanfiction for something that doesn't even bloody exist yet!

For flip's sakes. I have plans this weekend!
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#58
cheywood

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I think a single hive planet should provide the stories with a welcome degree of cohesion.

I am interested in how they plan to differentiate this planet from Necromunda. I'm thinking of a Varangantua with echoes of Nostrand. Not quite as wild as Necromunda but perhaps more sinister. Also a good chance for some in-depth, nitty gritty world-building of a brand new setting. Depth might beat breadth if this is done well.
EDIT: *Nostramo

I’ve been thinking about this as well. Obviously Crime’s going to involve every strata of the hive instead of focusing heavily on the underhive, but they’ll need to do more to differentiate it from Necromunda. It seems unlikely that the Wild West and flamboyantly-attired gangs will be as much of an influence on Varangantua, but what will take their place? I could see Wraight adding some hard-boiled detective tropes to his Inquisition novels and making something great.

Edited by cheywood, 03 January 2020 - 05:10 PM.


#59
DukeLeto69

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Actually the Calixis Sector setting for Dark Heresy 1 RPG had plenty of planetary variety so it will be interesting what they do with this.
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#60
Fedor

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I'm not so sure about this imprint at all. I don't actually read or watch any modern Crime fiction, but i did get that mafia tv series The Supranos as a christmas gift and the thing was just full of nasty, bigoted men swearing, extorting and killing people. A race to the bottom with no condemnation in sight!. It compels me to write off the entire crime genre.

Not sure if we have been reading the same books but the entire Imperium is built by nasty xenophobic little men and women who despise pretty much everyone who is even marginally different from them. They do an awful lot of killing and plenty of extortion when the mood is right. Condemning the extortionists or the bigots usually will earn you a one way trip to the emperor.
What you say you dislike is pretty much 40k. I’m confused.
I do love a chink of decency in any fiction no matter how dark and a good author will always work in some grace or hope into a story. It’s what makes ADB night lords so good, you see decency among the crazy badness. Or the ghosts stories are utterly hopeless but they have all the human emotions good and bad floating about. The Supranos has good deeds done (that usually backfire!).
But if your looking for a group of social reformers fighting for woke ideals you won’t find it in the 41st millennium.
Maybe Mike Brooks wants to write a 41st millennium Greta Thunberg series about her campaigning against the mechanicum pollution criminals. Or Gav Thorpe will write a book for abhuman rights and better social housing for mutants. A kindly old ork who only wants peace with the humans and is kind to the grots?
Eldar fiction is the closest to this you will get and few people seem to buy it, which is a massive pitty.

 

 

I'm just poking fun at the dismissing of all modern horror because of something like Hostel ( i'm not a much of a fan of the more 70s/80s exploitation influenced and/ or gore focused side of things either actually), don't take it too seriously, not many of us have the time to exhaustively explore every genre that is out there after all.

 

Back to warhammer crime, i like the idea of focusing on one world.


Edited by Fedor, 04 January 2020 - 07:19 AM.


#61
Son of Sacrifice

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Now that we know it's focusing on one setting and building a world it makes a lot more sense.

#62
DukeLeto69

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Now that we know it's focusing on one setting and building a world it makes a lot more sense.


How so?
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#63
aa.logan

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Now that we know it's focusing on one setting and building a world it makes a lot more sense.


How so?

Penal codes probably differ wildly from world to world, as might investigate authorities; by looking at just a single jurisdiction it might be easier to construct a legal framework and procedures to be written?
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#64
Panzer

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You know, I've started reading Eisenhorn last month and can't help but think that at least the first book would fit nicely into the Crime genre. Just shows that it can work even with multiple planets involved. Though I'm glad they'll keep the focus on just one planet. At least for now.


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#65
Knockagh

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Even what constitutes a crime varies massively from world to world. Acceptable levels of gang crime on one world would be capital offences on another.
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#66
DukeLeto69

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Now that we know it's focusing on one setting and building a world it makes a lot more sense.

How so?
Penal codes probably differ wildly from world to world, as might investigate authorities; by looking at just a single jurisdiction it might be easier to construct a legal framework and procedures to be written?
Good points. Prob best to establish how it works on one world and then, if imprint successful, it would be great IMO to extend to other worlds to show contrast or some kind of jurisdiction problems (with Arbites) when a criminal leaves one world for another.

Matthew Farrer did some fab world building for Hydraphaur in the Calpurnia books (the case file stuff etc in Enforcer omnibus is gold dust for WHC)

Edited by DukeLeto69, 08 January 2020 - 09:03 AM.

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#67
Jareddm

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I was thinking this might be a good series to bring back some real representation of mutants. Real chemical spill-style mutants like from the Redeemer, rather than the recent trend of, "Says mutant but is actually Genestealer Cult."
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#68
Felix Antipodes

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If the initial series is successful I would love to see a return of the Shira Calpurnia setting.




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