297 replies to this topic

[Aztek]

I don't personally expect "Codex Compliant vs Non-Codex Compliant" to be the line in the sand. I fully expect SW, DA, and BA to all get doctrines at one point or another. I don't feel like that's wishlisting, as without doctrines the supplement chapters are head over heels in a better spot. I guess you could argue that Chaos is/was in a similar spot and received no doctrines, I suppose I would just be surprised.

[Sete]

I don't personally expect "Codex Compliant vs Non-Codex Compliant" to be the line in the sand. I fully expect SW, DA, and BA to all get doctrines at one point or another. I don't feel like that's wishlisting, as without doctrines the supplement chapters are head over heels in a better spot. I guess you could argue that Chaos is/was in a similar spot and received no doctrines, I suppose I would just be surprised.

Really depends how they tackle it, traditionally BA and DA do follow the codex despite having their specific tactics and unique units, so its not unexpected for them to actually have doctrines.
SW is a whole different matter.

[Dark Shepherd]

Nids were due some love and attention, theyre very much peripheral to current main story/narrative arc so this could be a brief moment in the sun for them

[redmapa]

In terms of the narrative I do hope this isnt JUST the Devastation of Baal because we've already got a very nice narrative for that scenario and that GW didnt develop that thread earlier is on them, this should be the invasion AND the BA clean up after Guilliman shows up, it could also touch on the Chaos invasion of Sanguia Terra thats on the opposite side of Vigilus. 

[Burni]

It does seem like so much care went into the two Vigilus books which was just a single system war zone (albeit an important crossroads) compared to Psychic Awakenings which seems like Chapter Approved stuff with a WD lore article attached. And this is meant to be a huge galaxy spanning event.

But maybe I’m just in the wrong side of it as my armies haven’t been involved yet.

[Indefragable]

What are people thinking of a Doctrine for the Blood Angels? BT got one, so I see no reason as to why the BA wouldn't get one, especially as they're totally without at the moment.

 

 

I don't personally expect "Codex Compliant vs Non-Codex Compliant" to be the line in the sand. I fully expect SW, DA, and BA to all get doctrines at one point or another. I don't feel like that's wishlisting, as without doctrines the supplement chapters are head over heels in a better spot. I guess you could argue that Chaos is/was in a similar spot and received no doctrines, I suppose I would just be surprised.

 

I have a feeling that at least one of the non-UM "Big Four" marine factions will not have doctrines, but rather just have the equivalent of Codex: SM's Assault Doctrine on all the time (looking at you, either BA or SW).

 

I think Doctrines as a concept are useful for adding some extra flavor and punch to marine armies, but I think it would be more interesting if other forces did not call there's "doctrine..." that feels like a Codex Astartes* kind of thing. I see Space Wolves being like <insert cliche Russian accent> "what is this 'doctrine of assault?' we just punch things all the time..."

 

We know there is anywhere from a 6 month to 1 year lead time for books/rules to come out (bound by immutable laws of the publishing industry), according to various sources. FAQ's and Errrata are meant as quicker stop gaps and adjustments to glaring** issues. What this means is that the feedback for things takes a long time to become meaningful change. We also know that models come first, rules comes second***, and it takes probably much longer than a year for a model to go from napkin sketch to product on the shelf...

 

...so what I am quite curious about is how much of Codex Space Marines 2.0 was in the works in support of the models coming out, and how much of it was based on feedback and the community perception that SM definitively did not "feel" like SM at all based on all the other releases. The evidence that it was a planned evolution is Eldar getting Exarch abilities, though they are arguably not that strong (don't know the community's overall take). The evidence that it was reactionary and not fully thought-through is the fact that Chaos Space Marines got a 1.5 Codex re-release with a model range semi-reset, and a supplement in PA and neither of those really compare to the overall splash-in-the-water effect of the juggernaut that is Codex SM 2.0.

 

I have a sneaky suspicion that GW is going to be like "we really didn't think Codex Space Marines 2.0 would upset the game balance" and are just now scrambling to figure out how to prevent the capsizing of the game.

 

If BA and/or Tyranids and/or anyone else who gets a moment in the sun get something not unlike Doctrines, then we'll know it's a planned evolution and some factions (Chaos SM) for whatever reason are suffering from the timing. If BA/Nids do not, then we can reasonably guess that GW once more does not know the power they wield.

 

 

*Debate on just how (non)compliant various chapters are for a different time

**What GW thinks of as "glaring" vs what the rest of the world/community does for a different time

***Love it or hate it

Edited by Indefragable, 17 November 2019 - 10:34 PM.

[Kelborn]

If it really turns out to be BAs vs Nids round 3 or four, I dare to say that I'll be disappointed.

There's plenty of stuff to discover, especially with Dante being Imperium Nihilus' regent.

They're evolving the plot for several factions but stick with the Nids around Baal.

Curious of who will save their butts next.

Edited by Kelborn, 17 November 2019 - 10:44 PM.

[Bryan Blaire]

I think some of this very much depends on the timing of the volume - if it's pre-Vigilus (I believe that it is), it may still be in the Indomitus Crusade time-frame, so it's really not "Round #" anything, but could just be a continuation of previously described hostilities as a space in time.

[Aztek]

I think some of this very much depends on the timing of the volume - if it's pre-Vigilus (I believe that it is), it may still be in the Indomitus Crusade time-frame, so it's really not "Round #" anything, but could just be a continuation of previously described hostilities as a space in time.

"Looks like the Blood Angels will be facing the Tyranids again soon. You can see what happened last time they fought – on Baal itself – in Guy Haley’s Space Marine Conquests novel The Devastation of Baal"

 

I do not believe we're in the Indomitus time-frame based on this quote. It would seem like this is indeed Round # "?" and a rematch.

Edited by Aztek, 17 November 2019 - 11:43 PM.

[DeadFingers]

During the time of the Indomitus Crusade or not, this has to be taking place after the Devastation of Baal because Mephiston has crossed the Rubicon. So maybe it's still within the frame of the Crusade but some time after Guilliman's arrival on Baal.

[Omega-soul]

First of all - lorewise - a think it will be a total flop - previous 2 volumes revealed a super-lazy and uninspiring narration. Where both Vigilus was a) Entertaining quite substantional - PA is a collection of short stories that means nothing of notice. They are a bit compelling - but otherwise it's suuuuuuuper slow build up.

For worse I expect 3rd part be as much as the rest - a number of consequential short stories with a bit of easter eggs and fan service that leads to nothing.

And the worst part of it - it's not a Devastation of Baal timeset (which is on itself is a great letdown and a bucket of missed opportunities).

Personally I hoped this campaign will glue BL and Studio narrative together - like many of us mentioned - Dante is the Regent of Imperium Nihilus - it's a huge responsibility for a whole sectors of Galaxy. Diversity of threats and problems is immense. It's another great opportunity.

But instead it looks like reinstallment of Devastation of Baal.

But they can't do that. You cannot step twice into the same river. The tension is gone - Poor Tyranids is not the threat to anything. But if they decide - right, we f-up the whole faction let's make a comeback - let's give nids juicy heroes to devour - that would be plain dumb and disrespectfull to Guy Haley and Black Library.

In other words - Antagonist for this part of campaign is a spoiler for something unrelevant.

 

Second about rules - that would NOT be a reimagined codex. Chaos 2.0 at best. Nonetheless - I predict a powerful set of stratagems (personal bet - Death company for regular infantry bikes and dreadnoughts), Also I agree with a rumored flat special rule +1 to charge and advance instead of doctrines. Sanguinary Litanies table

Another thing - rumored Death company focus - it sounds convincing especially after Angels Blade DC detachment with set of relic and formations.

But otherwise nothing really big and again - I don't belive in an access to a Vanilla codex bonuses because that's be a straight nonsense of unbound power.

 

And one more thing - december WD will feature Flesh tearers so that answer to a whole succesor chapters demands - no additional rules in PA for you guys.

Besides - remember that GW have to feature some Tyranids rules as well in that book, so there is simply no room for a Next level changes to a BA codex.

 

The only thing that give me a hope for a quality rulles set - absence of BA section in Vigilus - every major Chapter (that be UM DA SW)  get an upgrade. All except BA. I really hope GW will make up for it.

Edited by Omega-soul, 18 November 2019 - 12:09 AM.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I'm hoping Khorne Daemons get some rules/relics/strats in this book, otherwise I dunno when we might. This would be a good opportunity for a three-way heavyweight throw down full of RIP AND TEAR.

[Noserenda]

An announcement of an announcement of an announcement?  This is why i cant take GW marketing at all seriously, and this is after the widespread leak of both the story and the release schedule?  Its sanity shredding...

Personally im hoping for a bit of Codex divergence for the Angels (Dark too eventually) given their army lists have been slightly different for years it might be nice to see that reflecting in the fluff, with different reactions to the galaxy shattering and the sudden influx of Primaris reinforcements meaning more and more marines are possible. Go somewhere different and make it less galling when the Marine books lose step with each other.

[Bryan Blaire]

"Looks like the Blood Angels will be facing the Tyranids again soon. You can see what happened last time they fought – on Baal itself – in Guy Haley’s Space Marine Conquests novel The Devastation of Baal"
 
I do not believe we're in the Indomitus time-frame based on this quote. It would seem like this is indeed Round # "?" and a rematch.

Definitely didn't read close enough and bummer.

[01RTB01]

Firmly of the belief that 9th ed is inbound. Knocking out books like nobody's business and seemingly unbothered by what's about to drop before plugging the next book

[Karhedron]

Firmly of the belief that 9th ed is inbound. Knocking out books like nobody's business and seemingly unbothered by what's about to drop before plugging the next book

Like the way Wrath of Magnus and Gathering Storm were brought out when 8th was clearly in the works? I do know what you mean. For what it is worth, I think 9th edition will be a refinement in the way that 7th was to 6th rather than a wholesale reset ala 8th edition.

Personally I do feel that BAs (as well as DAs and SWs) need something on par with Doctrines. I don't mind if they are called something else but they are all falling further and further behind the SM curve at the moment.

Getting to see Mephiston redone is nice. I am still hoping Dante and the Sanguinor are in the pipeline at some point. More pertinently, I am hoping Dante gets some new rules and/or a price drop. Both PA1 and PA2 showed they are willing to revist existing characters, even without model support. Guilliman raised Dante up as his regent in the Dark Imperium and told him he was the one man who had no need to kneel in his presence. Guilliman respects this guy and I would like to see him have rules to reflect that.

[RikuEru]

There are "Darkness in the Blood" Spoilerd running around by now, especially regarding Mephiston, Dante, the Sanguinor and how the Tyranids engage the Blood Angels, which could also make their way into PA3:

https://www.reddit.c...s_in_the_blood/

[Lemondish]

Nids were due some love and attention, theyre very much peripheral to current main story/narrative arc so this could be a brief moment in the sun for them

 

I'm glad to see at least somebody else is interested in the second half of this  

 

Seriously - I know BA are going to get some level of Astartes style love, but how many different forms will that take and will it be interesting and divergent enough from the Codex Astartes approach? Probably not. I'm eager to be surprised here, though. 

 

But new Nids love? I like that. I like that a lot. 

[ShinyRhino]

My hope is that BA/DA/SW get the same Doctrine system as Codex Marines have. If only to keep from pigeonholing those Chapters into monochromatic play styles. There are plenty of players out there who don't play the All-Death-Company-And-Smash-Captains blueprint. Giving Doctrines to every chapter boosts every unit in a codex, not just the stereotypical "we get mad and hit things with chainswords" units.

I also hope Nids get something balanced that can improve all their units. Just so I'm not seeing the same build of Tyrants and Genestealers and Venomthropes using the super move Hive Fleet rule over and over.

[Slasher956]

I wouldnt put money on BA/DA/SW getting more than a token towards the alternate play styles...

 

GW have a certain style they seem to want every faction to play to and the codex's are geared to that irrespective of if its competitiveness or expansiveness

[Panzer]

Edit: PA 2 Didnt even hit the shelves and they already hyping PA3. Think this says alot lol.

 

I just read the reddit thread with the spoilers about Darkness in the Blood (third Dante novel). I can see why PA3 might be a bigger thing than PA2. 

[Xenith]

I'm all over a BA vs Nids set, especially if we get a unique BA character and Neurothrope. 

[Blindhamster]

I'm all over a BA vs Nids set, especially if we get a unique BA character and Neurothrope.

Dont think we will get a set, would be happy if we did. But the extent of a model release is almost definitely Mephiston

[fire golem]

Yeah, Mephiston is the only new model coming with this one. 

[Karhedron]

That is what the release schedule shows. A few Nid units are coming out too but these look like repacks, not anything new.