If you were to own GW...

[Bryan Blaire]

Behead Phil Kelly and have someone who hates eldar write their codex!

Pretty sure that would constitute murder regardless of whether you own a company or not. One might even say that in a single sentence without context, that constitutes a death threat on someone.

 

Let’s be a little less hyperbolic - no need to be the rest of the Internet here, let sanity and reason rule this place.

[Noserenda]

Probably look at rounding off the inclusiveness initiatives by sprinkling in a few LGBTQ+ characters around the place, like a Trans SoB character, confirming Primaris geneseed works on any viable human and implicitly broadening the recruitment base of both Talons of the Emperor. Including renaming the Sisters of Silence to something more in universe (An Adepta of some kind like everyone else). 

Then Bring the former Forgeworld book teams as much as possible in to write a "Historical 40k" initially primarily the Age of Darkness but also looking at things like the Age of Apostasy, Badab War, Siege of Terra or even Unification era to produce big shiny Imperial Armour styled books and accompanying models, working in the same vein and budgets as the Specialist games teams but sticking with largely the current 40k rulesset for simplicity and to broaden the player base.  Round off the current AoD with one last Black book in 7th with remaining missing rules/models.

Probably look to get a Primarch equiv out for the other races, Prim-ork, bigger nid gribbly, the Necron king dude? Up the Eldar Avatars to that power level, plus at least one more loyalist and his daemon bros, may as well lean into this and give everyone the chance to play that way if they want to, there is always Historical 40k for the folks who prefer otherwise but the crossover is interesting too for "What ifs" at leas t to me anyway :D 

[Bryan Blaire]

I'd turn it into a co-op owned and administered by the people working for/in the company. Power corrupts. No more CEOs for GW.

You’d have to buy back all the shares in the company, which could potentially get pricey enough to cause the company to fail, or concentrate enough stock so that someone controls more than you, then boom, you’re no longer owner...

 

Or were we supposed to be in Imagine-Land where the company was never publicly traded?

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

 

I'd turn it into a co-op owned and administered by the people working for/in the company. Power corrupts. No more CEOs for GW.

You’d have to buy back all the shares in the company, which could potentially get pricey enough to cause the company to fail, or concentrate enough stock so that someone controls more than you, then boom, you’re no longer owner...

 

Or were we supposed to be in Imagine-Land where the company was never publicly traded?

 

If I *own* GW I imagine I've got more than a mere 51% of the stock.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

 

If I *own* GW I imagine I've got more than a mere 51% of the stock.

Depends on what British law requires - in the US, IIRC from courses, the “owner” only requires controlling interest, which means 51%. *shrug*

 

You still might not have enough cash to run a buy-back of all the stock - although admittedly, British law may allow for a cessation of public trading if a single holder has more than X amount of stock isn’t heir control or something.

 

I’m trying to be a bit realistic about what an “owner” in GW’s current situation could realistically do.

 

In that case I put up a holding company owned and operated as a co-op by GW employees, and let them have (cheaply, if I *must* sell) the controlling share of stock.

 

EDIT: Roll-back to 2nd edition, retconning huge swathes of game lore, all that isn't a problem, but trying to change the way the company is operated is somehow beyond the scope of realism?

Edited November 19, 2019 by Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra

[Bryan Blaire]

EDIT: Roll-back to 2nd edition, retconning huge swathes of game lore, all that isn't a problem, but trying to change the way the company is operated is somehow beyond the scope of realism?

Nah, that one is so far out it’s a “that’s nice, but never going to happen” one. :lol: As are most of the others.

 

Yours was actually somewhat plausible, but I was wondering how far you’d thought about it - if there was some way to actually pull it off (like a legal loophole that could finish it off), it’d be really cool, actually. As a co-op, I’m trying to think how’d I’d structure it internally to run.

[Ace Debonair]

What would you do? How would you fix/improve 40k in terms of LORE (not talking tabeltop rules here)?

 

I'd try desperately not to screw things up.

Sticking to just changes in the lore (which nobody else in the thread has done so far ), since we've no longer got the threat of the 13th Black Crusade coming and dooming us all soon, I'd add something else to take it's place. Another looming event of some kind that will be irrefutably The End, an apocalypse to struggle against.

 

Just something that threatens to break the endless stalemate that we're going to be stuck with, even if that event never comes.

 

I miss the feeling that every Imperial victory, no matter how heroic, ultimately wouldn't matter in the face of cosmic annihilation. That pervading sense of absolute doom hasn't been present since Abaddon finished his Crusade and took a break (or whatever he's supposed to be doing these days), and I think it added a lot to the setting.

 

I'd like that back, although I don't know what Cataclysmic Future Background Event I'd use to create such a tension. Somehow "Abaddon's 14th Black Crusade" doesn't sound quite so threatening, does it?

[Brother Casman]

If we're going to have a discussion on changes we'd like to make to the lore of 40k, I would strongly suggest we don't delve into modern-day politics.

 

=][=

[Panzer]

 

What would you do? How would you fix/improve 40k in terms of LORE (not talking tabeltop rules here)?

 

I'd try desperately not to screw things up.

Sticking to just changes in the lore (which nobody else in the thread has done so far ), since we've no longer got the threat of the 13th Black Crusade coming and dooming us all soon, I'd add something else to take it's place. Another looming event of some kind that will be irrefutably The End, an apocalypse to struggle against.

 

Just something that threatens to break the endless stalemate that we're going to be stuck with, even if that event never comes.

 

I miss the feeling that every Imperial victory, no matter how heroic, ultimately wouldn't matter in the face of cosmic annihilation. That pervading sense of absolute doom hasn't been present since Abaddon finished his Crusade and took a break (or whatever he's supposed to be doing these days), and I think it added a lot to the setting.

 

I'd like that back, although I don't know what Cataclysmic Future Background Event I'd use to create such a tension. Somehow "Abaddon's 14th Black Crusade" doesn't sound quite so threatening, does it?

 

 

The end scenario didn't change. The only thing that changed is that it doesn't happen right away with the 13th Crusade anymore. All the victories since the Gathering Storm are still the same as before ... a drop in the ocean.

The people of the Imperium got something like hope with Guillimans return, and thanks to Guillimans propaganda with the Primaris as well (declaring the Indomitus Crusade as successfull even when it wasn't nearly finished), however it has been made clear that Guilliman with all his improvements and Primaris with all their superior strength are barely able to fight back against all the going down since the galaxy got split in two and Daemon Primarchs being active in the material realm again ... and that's for just half of the galaxy as there's barely anything known about Imperium Nihilus so far. Plus there are still Necrons awakening in bigger numbers than ever before and Tyranids still pouring into the galaxy more and more. Who knows what the Orks are up to. T'au got access to Imperium Nihilus via a stable warptunnel (though they are barely a threat at their size for now). Eldar got a new deathgod too.

So in the end, the situation just got worse for humanity and Guilliman and the Primaris are only barely able to provide the necessary support so everything doesn't just collapse.

Edited November 19, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Ace Debonair]

The end scenario didn't change. The only thing that changed is that it doesn't happen right away with the 13th Crusade anymore. All the victories since the Gathering Storm are still the same as before ... a drop in the ocean.

The people of the Imperium got something like hope with Guillimans return, and thanks to Guillimans propaganda with the Primaris as well (declaring the Indomitus Crusade as successfull even when it wasn't nearly finished), however it has been made clear that Guilliman with all his improvements and Primaris with all their superior strength are barely able to fight back against all the going down since the galaxy got split in two and Daemon Primarchs being active in the material realm again ... and that's for just half of the galaxy as there's barely anything known about Imperium Nihilus so far. Plus there are still Necrons awakening in bigger numbers than ever before and Tyranids still pouring into the galaxy more and more. Who knows what the Orks are up to. T'au got access to Imperium Nihilus via a stable warptunnel (though they are barely a threat at their size for now). Eldar got a new deathgod too.

So in the end, the situation just got worse for humanity and Guilliman and the Primaris are only barely able to provide the necessary support so everything doesn't just collapse.

I hear what you're saying, and I don't disagree. That is an excellent summary of what's going on.

 

But what I mean is beforehand, I always got the impression that the 13th Black Crusade would be the event that caused The End. If the 13th Black Crusade ever launched, humanity was basically done for.

 

Now... while we're all certainly doomed, it's a death of ten thousand cuts, from ten thousand myriad enemies. There isn't any great, over-arching single doomsday that is drawing ever-closer. No big impending catastrophe to rally heroically and pointlessly against.

 

EDIT: I realise that it was always supposed to be a death of ten thousand cuts in the lore. But it felt like the Black Crusade would be the catalyst for those cuts.

 

Somehow 40K just doesn't quite feel the same without a tangible apocalypse looming in the background, and that's what I'd try (and probably fail spectacularly) to bring back if I were in the position to do so.

 

Which is probably just another good reason to be glad I'm not in charge, I can't imagine I'd do any kind of a good job at it!  

 

EDIT EDIT:

 

I am really bad at this whole 'communication' thing, and I think I'd best just stop here.

I'll go back to being quiet and looking forward to reading what everyone else would change.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Ace Debonair

[Ishagu]

If I owned GW I wouldn't change a thing. They are on the right course to making the hobby more popular, accessible and satisfying.

 

Edit:

 

I'd wake the Emperor up, might as well.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Ishagu

[Lord_Starscream]

I'd make the game go closer (though not entirely back) to its wargaming roots.

 

I'd retcon a lot of things in AoS to make it not terrible (even if the Old World's dead and gone, the realmgate/realms of magic stuff does 0 for me)

 

I'd probably bring back the oldrons in some form, and I'd push for a new xeno army that are the direct descendants of the old ones.

 

That'd be pretty much it.

[Slave to Darkness]

Lorewise gathering storm would go ahead as normal but Guilliman would still be in stasis, Cawl wouldn't exist and Primaris would never see the light of day. 

 

And Templars would get a kick ass codex. 

[Jarl Caldersson]

This is about lore changes, not about real world changes.

[Slave to Darkness]

Oh I'd bring Squats back as well, and Space Slann. Kinda like a mix between current lore (minus Guilliman and Primaris) and 1st ed. Less Grimdork and more oldschool crazyness. 

[Marshal Rohr]

This is about lore changes, not about real world changes.

Whoops didn’t read the OP.

 

Lore wise:

-get rid of Centurions and Dreadknights

-make Templars secular crusaders

-make Guilliman let chapter’s have real space ships and control their own geneseed to grow as big as they can within their geneseed allotment

-Give Abaddon the Imperium Nihilus

-Bring bacon Russ and the Lion, break the Imperium Sanctus into three parts with the Lion and Guilliman competing for legitimacy and Old Man Russ on the front lines of the Chaos invasion from Nihilus

-Make Guard regiments diverse again

[Jarl Caldersson]

I would say old man Russ getting mad that Lion and Guilliman bickering over the Emperor's seat (who is still alive), and yelling at them there is a war going on. That would be nice to see that Russ is the one with clarity of mind for once, rather than Guilliman and Lion.

[Beta galactosidase]

If I suddenly owned GW, I would take a very, very long time learning the company, reading the curated museum’s worth of lore snippets and books, looking through mounds of art work, etc., and generally assume that I do not know better than folks that have been running this stuff for far longer than I have.

There are a few things I’d like to be different, sure, but I also know that owners (especially ignorant owners, like all of us would be if we were to suddenly own the company) can have a terrible, terrible impact when they meddle too much in day to day affairs. Any changes that I’d want to have happen would be very slow to be implemented (like half a decade or longer) and would be worked into the business model for sustainability, not simply instantaneously pleasing detractors.

From this perspective on background I would like the existing background by previous creators to be cordoned off. New creators would then be given carte blanche, but within their own silos of background. I think during the overfiend era there was some very good and popular background invented, Black Templars for example, and none of it modified or tampered with the work done before, when Ansell and Priestly directed most of the ideas. Every new piece of background by each designer would be in its own separate campaign or sub- sub- faction, the way that Badab gave us new Salamander lore but didn’t have very much power over changing the entire chapter.

 

It’s also very important to keep game design from influencing background. While I just said nice things about the overfiend era, the rules effected the background badly. Orks were designated a close-combat army with bs2, and that changed them somewhat from a kind of warped version of professional militaries to close combat brutes. We indirectly got Vanguard (classic) from game design too. Previously, regular assault squads got individual upgrades to power swords and fists. However, chambers decided to eliminate individual upgrades from non-character models to simplify the rules. This led to the later reintroduction of PW wielding squads in the form of vanguard. I think this was bad for the background. With all the resources that go into a space marine, of course a chapter could arm every single marine with a utilitarian power sword. The reason that tactical and devastator squads don’t have them is because it would be superfluous weight and maintenance for a shooting squad, not that it’s too special somehow. Dedicated combat squads of course can have power fists. These are the Emperor’s own legiones, not mortal levies.

 

So in every new release I’d require the background to be 90% new, with very rehash or updating of what’s going on with Dante or Guilliman. Everything would be Codex: Armageddon or Codex: EoT (without the galaxy-wide plot of the crusade, just from the Wulfen, LatD, Cadians, and Black Guardian perspectives). No updating and re-updating codexes for existing factions. New books for a faction comes when they appear in the Macharian crusade supplement, or the Octarius war supplement.

 

And as an aside there are many arrangements for employee-owned companies to have publicly traded shares. In the US we’d use a variant of an ESOP. Of course most companies are structured so that shareholder votes have no power and are advisory. There can be employee-owned companies that have conventional management, and employee-managed companies that have majority outside ownership. The effect that would have on background might not be very strong.

[Lord_Caerolion]

To play devils advocate, I always saw the Vanguard/Sternguard Veterans as just a carryover from Assault/"Tactical" Terminators into their power-armoured equivalents.

[chapter master 454]

Lore changes, right. Ok...suppose I will throw some things into the ring.

 

Lets sort some things out.

First, make Gulliman coming back actually costed in some form. I have put the forward before but lets throw it out there again.

Black Legion assail Maccragge, seeking to break the most noble chapter and also put an end to a Primarch's life. The fighting would be fierce and bitter, harking back to days of the heresy in sheer brutality (have maybe abbadon muse about that). Slowly, surely, the black legion make ground despite Calgar's efforts supported by Tigerius while Cassius is ensuring battles elsewhere hold firm. Every step back is bought with blood but yet, these are no mere space marines of now, these are hardened veterans of the long war and not only do they know how to fight but their leader has millennia of experience over Calgar. Even with the entire might of the first company present, the battle is going poorly.

 

We reach the sanctum where Gulliman rests within the stasis field, both a prison and protection from threats external and internal. Calgar and his remaining veterans hold their line, Tigerius now succumbing to his wounds is barely still able to give Calgar any sort of help. A challenge bellows forth, Abbadon himself and his retinue of Terminators march forth. Calgar takes up the challenge while the remaining men attempt to hold the line.

The battle is incredible to watch, if any were able to. Despite the yawing gap of experience, Calgar is putting up a good fight thanks to the gauntlets of Ultramar resisting both the Talons of Horus and the fell daemon sword though his armour offers little comfort. It is during echoing his triumph over an Eldar Avatar, Drach'nyen firming grasped within one gauntlet screaming for blood and the Talons interlocked against the other fist, that a sudden change in the air is felt. The stasis field was failing, falling away. The entire duel was a distraction, the remaining veterans now dead, the 1st company dead to a man for the second time and now their Primarch would soon follow as his wound began to march forward once more in time.

 

Tigerius, on deaths door makes his final move, a desperate gamble. Focusing his entire might of what he had left, he unleashed a torrent of energy into Gulliman that lasted only for a moment before Tigerius slumped to the floor dead, the multitude of bolter fire and blades thrust into far too late to have any meaning.

The wound crackles and strange sparks emit from injury of a foul colour. The wound was mending and now Calgar was taking advantage of the duel, disallowing Abbadon even a moment to comprehend what was happening he rent free his fist from the Talons grasp and gave a mighty blow to the Warmaster. Reeling, Abbadon wrests free Drach'Nyen and orders the retreat as he witnesses his greatest Triumph turn to ultimate failure. He was in no condition to face a primarch and the few legionnaires he had left from the fighting would be nothing but warm-up for rousing son of the Emperor.

Reboute Gulliman, Primarch of the 13th legion had returned.

 

 

More things to sort: Cawl being purely Primaris based. Basically he did nothing but work on the Primaris project alone and really had nothing more note worthy, really just a background character to help flesh out Primaris.

Ynnari have interesting plot implications but we need them to...quote from the wise monty python "GET ON WITH IT"

 

Also, I would of just thrown Cato Sicarius into the warp FAR sooner.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Nothing. What they've done and continue to do has lead the company to greater heights than ever before. 

[Slave to Darkness]

Nothing. What they've done and continue to do has lead the company to greater heights than ever before. 

You really think so? Lore wise I think they are going backwards, recent stuff has been weak and nowhere near as interesting as earlier fluff. 

 

But that's just my opinion though *shrugs*

[Ishagu]

@Chapter Master 454

 

You'd change Cawl? He's the most fun character in the entire setting!

You should read "the Great Work" by Guy Haley.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Alright my sword has slew more than a few posts in this topic. The reason for this was because those posts were entirely about real world topics, or responses to real world posts. However there are some posts that contain both lore and real world information. I HEAVILY encourage you to go back and change that, I have even done so as the temptation is strong.

Please keep it on topic about LORE. Any further deviation will be meet with the force matching a DA chaplain crozius. Thank you, and happy posting.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Jarl Caldersson

[chapter master 454]

@Chapter Master 454

 

You'd change Cawl? He's the most fun character in the entire setting!

You should read "the Great Work" by Guy Haley.

 

I feel he was a Deus Ex Machina (funny that) and not well done. By all accounts I like the concept of how he apparently has multiple personalities because he keeps his memories on hard drives but ultimately he has needed so much back filling that the front feels cracked and faded really. Not even background mentions of him or the like don't help ether. I don't believe every character introduced needs 30 years of history before getting introduced but by all accounts, he has had more impact on the narrative than any other character within the 40k universe bar the big E himself. Suppose that is fitting, since both kinda just appeared from nowhere!

 

Suppose it doesn't help I have a slight bias against mechanicus (Ironic, my Knight Household is Taranis) just because I hate their complete self interest to exclusion of all other things, even if it means their own destruction. It is their MO and is a sign they are designed well to that niche, I see why others like them and for me the hatred I have for them is good because I hate them from what they do lorewise, not hating them for poor lore writing.

 

Cawl to me just reeks of Mary Sue, basically being the Cato Sicarius of Adeptus Mechanicus.

 

Another note for something I would do: I would address the elephant in the room about Primaris and Old Marines, how hard is it to make Primaris? Do they still make old marines? Is the decision to put a neophyte on the path to becoming a Primaris done early if they show signs of accepting the organs well or do they just go slap dash about it.

To me, the big thing needing changed is making it clear how much resource does it take to make primaris and what value old marines still hold (as they clearly hold some form of value).