Master Commander Ajax Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I’d reestablish the Imperial Calendar. I’d go back to Gathering Storm and move the narrative forward from there rather than jumping forward. I’d retcon Primaris. Slave to Darkness 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Lol you'd retcon the most successful product in the range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Lol you'd retcon the most successful product in the range? This topic is about fluff, Ishagu, and it's a wishlist topic. Don't get so defensive. Master Commander Ajax 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Lol you'd retcon the most successful product in the range? Yes. Truescale marines Im behind, but not the fluff pushing the new meh... Everything involving Guilliman, Cawl and the Primaris will be forgotten if I was in charge. Primarchs will be' in the heresy where they belong. Id scrap special characters in general actually. Id have a basic Chapter Master and a list of wargear so you can represent *Chapter Master X or Y* as well as make your own. But now Im drifting off topic, but yea Primaris will be taken out behind the barn and shot between the eyes. m0nolith and Master Commander Ajax 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Then I'm glad you aren't in charge. ^^ Zephaniah Adriyen, Noserenda, Schlitzaf and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Then I'm glad you aren't in charge. ^^ Thats cool, different strokes for different folks. World would be boring if we all liked the same things. Panzer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Starscream Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Lol you'd retcon the most successful product in the range? Yes. Truescale marines Im behind, but not the fluff pushing the new meh... Everything involving Guilliman, Cawl and the Primaris will be forgotten if I was in charge. Primarchs will be' in the heresy where they belong. Id scrap special characters in general actually. Id have a basic Chapter Master and a list of wargear so you can represent *Chapter Master X or Y* as well as make your own. But now Im drifting off topic, but yea Primaris will be taken out behind the barn and shot between the eyes. I actually really like how they've used Roboutte in the books. My biggest problem is how the design staff thinks up. I think the Primaris marines, in the lore, are pretty questionable, but I like the models and design. I think Cawl is a Mary-Sue and it's really painful. The Great Work was a reasonably good book, but Cawl himself definitely still had the air of being a Mary-Sue, and I don't like it. I'm gonna do a bigger post when I get the chance, talking in greater detail of how I'd retcon/change things, but I don't think the Primarchs are innately the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Lol you'd retcon the most successful product in the range? Yes. Truescale marines Im behind, but not the fluff pushing the new meh... Everything involving Guilliman, Cawl and the Primaris will be forgotten if I was in charge. Primarchs will be' in the heresy where they belong. Id scrap special characters in general actually. Id have a basic Chapter Master and a list of wargear so you can represent *Chapter Master X or Y* as well as make your own. But now Im drifting off topic, but yea Primaris will be taken out behind the barn and shot between the eyes. I actually really like how they've used Roboutte in the books. My biggest problem is how the design staff thinks up. I think the Primaris marines, in the lore, are pretty questionable, but I like the models and design. I think Cawl is a Mary-Sue and it's really painful. The Great Work was a reasonably good book, but Cawl himself definitely still had the air of being a Mary-Sue, and I don't like it. I'm gonna do a bigger post when I get the chance, talking in greater detail of how I'd retcon/change things, but I don't think the Primarchs are innately the problem. I just think Primarchs would be better being the mighty beings of legend that they were, were the stories told of their exploits true or has the legend been blown out of proportion over the years. I liked the mystery surrounding them, now they are running around in both settings and IMHO it feels like its all about them and taking the focus away from the little guys. Lexington and Master Commander Ajax 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 I'd push a couple of things I want personally, but otherwise I'd be pretty much hands off, as their financial success would ultimately be my financial success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jukkiz Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 What i would do?I would redesign primaris as truescale astartes, give IH/WS/RG/BT their own model line like BA/UM/DA/SW have. Master Commander Ajax 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) Lol what is this mythical UM model line you speak of? They have a bunch of characters granted, but beyond that? Aaanyways, If we're talking about strictly lore I would do the following: -Abaddon becomes a slave to Chaos, falling in the same way as Horus did in a bid to gain the power to defeat Guilliman. It's grim-dark, no mortal is beyond the influence of the Ruinous powers (they ruin)! -Cawl strikes a partnership with a more neutrally minded Necron dynasty, an agreement brokered by Trazyn. They work together to begin sealing the Great Rift. Some Imperium factions are outraged but the Lord Commander pacifies them. -The Tau suffer a catastrophic series of defeats, a combination of Xenos attacks and wars against a far more technologically sophisticated and tactically adept Primaris Crusade of Space Marines commended by Guilliman. The Tau home world is spared in a mutually beneficial agreement. Many Etherials are dead after a campaign of assassinations. The Tau society becomes fractured. Far away the Farsight Enclave becomes the dominant Tau power in the galaxy. -The Silent King returns and begins to rebuild the Greater Necron dynasties of old. He hunts the various factions of the Eldar. -The Lion awakens and spends time with Guilliman getting to know the decrepit empire the Imperium has become. He is awarded the title of Warmaster and leads Crusader to purge the enemies of mankind. He personally executes many who are judged poorly in Imperium administration and military command. He is unpopular but effective, the Ecclesiarchy take a liking to his methods. -The Emperor's great mind stirs. For the first time in thousands of years he begins communicating with his subjects in a more pro-active way. He does so via psychic visions to the Primarchs or by using humans as a medium (which he quickly burns out due to the sheer power). He instructs of a way to restore his body, but it will be difficult and costly. Some believe it all to be lies from the great enemy... -Trazyn gifts the clone of Fulgrim to Cawl in exchange for an unknown prize of immense value. The Fulgrim clone is interrogated by both Guilliman and the Lion, and fitted with a high powered explosive in his skull that cannot be disabled or tampered with - it will detonate at the merest consideration of treason or subversion against the loyalists. The Fulgrim clone expresses a desire to destroy the original, feeling immense shame in what happened during the Heresy. He appears to be pure, as Fulgrim was before the fall. Despite the great risk the tactical acumen he possesses is of great value. He is assigned a new identity (a recovered lost Primarch that had been kept in stasis) and leads a force spearheaded by the Sons of the Phoenix (lol this one is a bit far-fetched). And that's just the start of it! Edited November 21, 2019 by Ishagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 What would you do? How would you fix/improve 40k in terms of LORE (not talking tabeltop rules here)? Going back and changing any of the lore would disenfranchise a significant number of players. All GW can really do is refine and solidify things. They can't answer every question - one of the key strengths of the setting is that there are questions that aren't answered. Another key strength is that the variety of factions and their characteristics means that there is appeal across a broad spectrum - appealing to the vast majority. If GW changed everything to appeal to just one player/group, they would be limiting appeal to a small minority (which would be terrible for the hobby and for business). As it is, GW gives us a whacky and diverse setting and we have the freedom to make it our own, focusing on those parts that we enjoy. What I would prefer over lore progression is expansion of the historical lore. There are lots of nuggets scattered throughout the millennia between the end of the Scouring and the Dark Millennium. Forge World sort of did this with the Imperial Armour books, though those mostly focused on the "modern" (at that time) setting and hit at a higher end of the hobby. I'd like to see GW apply a lower end application across historical events. This would involve one or more campaign books and models featuring units/individuals from those historical events, while allowing those units to be used at any time. GW's shift to Primaris for the Adeptus Astartes hurts this, but it might be a way for them to continue support for legacy Adeptus Astartes, even if in a limited fashion. Looking at history might allow GW to give us views of factions/sub-factions at different points of the waxing/waning cycle. Also, it would allow them to continue giving us special characters without making it seem like the universe is crawling with special characters. As far as the modern setting goes, I've inured myself to the things I don't like. No matter what GW did to progress the storyline, there was going to be a significant segment of the fandom that didn't like it. It was going to be too much, or too little, or too dark, or to bright, or whatever. GW did some very unexpected things, and though I don't like all of those things, I respect the audacity. It's definitely not how I would have progressed things, but such is life. Reversing course at this point would be pathetically weak. Felix Antipodes, Noserenda, Beren and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Lol what is this mythical UM model line you speak of? They have a bunch of characters granted, but beyond that? Victrix Honour Guard are a UM only primaris unit. Then you have the normal UM Honour Guard, the Tyrannic Veterans, the only SM Lord of War, and maybe the Terminus Ultra (can't find it in WS codex) As for your lore changes, lets just agree to disagree. I feel you spread too much peace and more "good" vs "evil". Panzer and Master Commander Ajax 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torbenos Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 One thing I would enjoy is for them to hit home the fracturing of the Imperium following the rift and the weird passage of time during this warpastic period. In general I think due to how big part of the gameline that is Imperial it would be intresting to fracture it in some manner of civil war/conflict allowing for more human on human action that isn't just good vs bad guys. In essence something like the Imperium Secundus or Nova Terra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Lol what is this mythical UM model line you speak of? They have a bunch of characters granted, but beyond that? Victrix Honour Guard are a UM only primaris unit. Then you have the normal UM Honour Guard, the Tyrannic Veterans, the only SM Lord of War, and maybe the Terminus Ultra (can't find it in WS codex) As for your lore changes, lets just agree to disagree. I feel you spread too much peace and more "good" vs "evil". You think? I was going for more alliances, factions splits, etc. We all know the Imperium is fragmented, we don't need more of that. The Tau are a prime candidate for some drama from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 I'm glad that you too aren't in charge of lore, Ishagu. All in all I like what GW is doing, I just don't like how they are doing it, so I guess I mostly would let people write the lore that can actually tell a story. :D Felix Antipodes and Slave to Darkness 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekim_Trub Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 I would develop the Xenos lore to make them more of a threat to the Imperium (really have mankind beset of all sides), and to diversify the wall of Astartes you see everywhere. I would give the Raven Guard, Iron Hands, Salamanders, White Scars and Imperial Fists a bit more love to bring them up to the same level as the the "Big 4". Felix Antipodes, Doctor Perils and Jarl Caldersson 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Caldersson Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) One thing I would enjoy is for them to hit home the fracturing of the Imperium following the rift and the weird passage of time during this warpastic period. In general I think due to how big part of the gameline that is Imperial it would be intresting to fracture it in some manner of civil war/conflict allowing for more human on human action that isn't just good vs bad guys. In essence something like the Imperium Secundus or Nova Terra. I kinda wish this too. I want to see that only 15-30 years passed and the imperium-Sanctus side and is lead by Guilliman via science. The Nihilus though has been 75 years and has been lead by faith. Almost everyone has gone cult-like as it was their only hope. Things on the Nihilus side are extremely bad, with chaos raids being a common occurrence. BT and SoS have formed a militant arm that has bowed to Dante, but even the BA are starting to fold into the faith. Acts of the Emperor are seen often and only reinforce this idea. Edited November 21, 2019 by Jarl Caldersson Felix Antipodes 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 To give an answer more in the spirit of the thread, I'll go ahead and say the following: I'd scrap Primaris as a lore concept. HOWEVER, I'd still keep the models, Cawl & all of his projects, etc. The Primaris line would continue to be what they are, a new line of Cawl designed gear and methods of war for Astartes, sanctioned by grandpa smurf and his rewritten book, and a door way for GW to expand the space marine line with new things from outside the old box. But there would be no distinction between old marines and primaris marines. This would neccessitate all marine character models being primarized (or upscaled old marine pattern, in the same size of primaris models) as there would be no in universe justification for why they would be different. Same with old marine squad types, getting upscaled old marine armor pattern releases or newer "primaris gear loadouts". Basicly anything old gets new plastic releases sooner rather than later. Lexington 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) I don't agree that the Dark Imperium should be a blanket "More backward/Cult like" What about a Forge World run by a Maverick Magos that is churning out super advanced tech because of the dire situation, and isn't being reprimanded due to no contact with Mars. The individual factions within the game can each represent specific element - The Sisters are the super cult faction. I would also double down on Primaris. This is a new age and the Imperium will not go gently into the night. I would tie them in with the cursed foundings however, those can all be somewhat failed Primaris experiments. Edited November 21, 2019 by Ishagu Beta galactosidase 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) I'd scrap Primaris as a lore concept. HOWEVER, I'd still keep the models, Cawl & all of his projects, etc. The Primaris line would continue to be what they are, a new line of Cawl designed gear and methods of war for Astartes, sanctioned by grandpa smurf and his rewritten book, and a door way for GW to expand the space marine line with new things from outside the old box. But there would be no distinction between old marines and primaris marines. Same, really. The Primaris Marines look really good (well, a lot of them do), it’s just their weird, retrofitted background that’s daft. Though, one big difference is that, rather than all being Cawl’s work (one of the problems with the new material is that the whole damn galaxy seems to revolve around the actions of, like, five people), I’d just soft-retcon Primaris gear into being the natural byproduct of 10,000 years of extremely minor technological advancement. GW’s been pulling against it in recent years, but way back when, stuff like the Assault Cannon, Thunder Hammer and man-portable Multi-Meltas were post-Heresy inventions, rather than rare but almost fully-developed Heresy-era tech. It was tortoise-slow, but the Imperium did occasionally invent and use new things. So, it’d just be a return to that, with all the individual Primaris unit types retconned into varying equipment types for the standard Tactical, Assault and Devastator squads. Edited November 21, 2019 by Lexington CaptainFrederickson 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 You really need to read the Cawl book. Saying it's "all Cawl's work" in a negative connotation is like saying "It's only the work of the leading minds who worked under the Emperor, some Master Magos from the AdMech pre current dogma and various other geniuses" and that they couldn't do it given enough time. Lots of the tech was developed over a long period of time, lots of it using existing Templates from STC's and what not. It was just unveiled in one fell swoop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 You really need to read the Cawl book. Saying it's "all Cawl's work" in a negative connotation is like saying "It's only the work of the leading minds who worked under the Emperor, some Master Magos from the AdMech pre current dogma and various other geniuses" and that they couldn't do it given enough time. Lots of the tech was developed over a long period of time, lots of it using existing Templates from STC's and what not. It was just unveiled in one fell swoop. Yeah Cawl is a merged conscious. Pretty much only the personality is the original Cawl himself and that personality is something he puts together as he pleases and thinks fits the task at hand so not even that is set in stone lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyB Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 You really need to read the Cawl book. Saying it's "all Cawl's work" in a negative connotation is like saying "It's only the work of the leading minds who worked under the Emperor, some Master Magos from the AdMech pre current dogma and various other geniuses" and that they couldn't do it given enough time. Lots of the tech was developed over a long period of time, lots of it using existing Templates from STC's and what not. It was just unveiled in one fell swoop. Yeah Cawl is a merged conscious. Pretty much only the personality is the original Cawl himself and that personality is something he puts together as he pleases and thinks fits the task at hand so not even that is set in stone lol In my headcanon, Cawl's original personality was named Tony Stark. :) Panzer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 You really need to read the Cawl book. Saying it's "all Cawl's work" in a negative connotation is like saying "It's only the work of the leading minds who worked under the Emperor, some Master Magos from the AdMech pre current dogma and various other geniuses" and that they couldn't do it given enough time. Lots of the tech was developed over a long period of time, lots of it using existing Templates from STC's and what not. It was just unveiled in one fell swoop. Yeah Cawl is a merged conscious. Pretty much only the personality is the original Cawl himself and that personality is something he puts together as he pleases and thinks fits the task at hand so not even that is set in stone lol In my headcanon, Cawl's original personality was named Tony Stark. Haha he comes definitely a bit Tony Stark-ey across. The comic version of Tony Stark at least. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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