Self Sacrifice

[SoulessGod]

So the new errata is out and correct me if I'm wrong but, instead of the little tweak people wanted to make sure you couldn't hide a character/unit and make another untargetable they have basically made that the only useful way to use the stratagem and get what it's worth out of it?

[Frostglaive]

This change was about what I expected.

[SirVulkan]

I think they went overboard.  They could have done the 5 model part and the anti shrouding part and been fine.  Now it only effects 1 unit.  

 

Oh and Fires of Battle I think they nerfed too hard too.  4 mortal wounds max would have been fine.  

 

So I guess ill run a 6 man unit of aggressors instead of 2 3 mans and hide them behind my incursors.  

[jgascoine011]

Really glad i didnt start a salamander army.

 

FoB was so hard to pull off with flame weapons anyway.

[sal of manders]

So the new errata is out and correct me if I'm wrong but, instead of the little tweak people wanted to make sure you couldn't hide a character/unit and make another untargetable they have basically made that the only useful way to use the stratagem and get what it's worth out of it?

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I think your interpretation is backwards.  The change puts it as "infantry unit of 5 or more" is protecting selected "infantry unit wholly within 6 inches"; so characters can't BE the meat shields. Personally, I think they should have done "non-character" instead of "five or more models", but I'll deal.

 

 

I think they went overboard.  They could have done the 5 model part and the anti shrouding part and been fine.  Now it only effects 1 unit.  

 

Oh and Fires of Battle I think they nerfed too hard too.  4 mortal wounds max would have been fine.  

 

So I guess ill run a 6 man unit of aggressors instead of 2 3 mans and hide them behind my incursors.  

 

I'll agree that 4 MW for FoB would've been fine, but I'm okay with 3 MW for 1 CP; 

 

As far as self sacrifice only affecting (i.e. protecting) one unit now, I'd say that it DOES seem more in line with what they intended, and I'll give them credit to say it's more... um... narratively logical?  That said, I'd like to recap all the nerfs for that one, because they did so much I think people may have missed parts of it.

 

1) protecting unit must be "infantry unit of 5 or more models" instead of just "infantry unit";

   --> so no more nigh un-killable T8 warlords with silly buffs playing superman

 

2) protecting unit cannot be within an inch of enemy models,

  --> so no more picking a unit that's in combat, and therefore untargetable to 99% of your opponent's army

 

3) protecting unit only protects a single infantry unit now,

  --> impact of this should be self evident

 

4)  unit being protected must be WHOLLY within 6" of protecting unit instead of merely within 6"

  --> considering #1 and #3, I think this is going overboard, but it does make it easier to get the protected unit out of ability range (therefore becoming targetable) via killing models in the protecting unit.

 

5)  protecting unit is always a viable target *provided* they are in range AND visible.

  --> worth noting that this means that shrouding still works *IF* the protecting unit isn't visible to the shooter; so you can still theoretically render both units non-targetable in the right situations. 

 

 

Granted 2cp to potentially shut down your opponent's entire shooting phase was incredibly broken before, but I'm not sure the strat is still worth 2cp after the combined nerfs. I'd be fine with #3 OR #4, but I think doing BOTH is a bit much.

[Ishagu]

The chapter rules, stratagems and psychic powers are still incredibly useful. Two things which people were looking to abuse have been fixed but the faction remains very strong.

[Frostglaive]

Someone actually had the audacity to claim to me that Salamanders are unplayable now because of that strat nerf. Saying that was the only thing that was useful for them....

 

Excuse me, what?!

[Ishagu]

Someone actually had the audacity to claim to me that Salamanders are unplayable now because of that strat nerf. Saying that was the only thing that was useful for them....

 

Excuse me, what?!

People like that aren't worth talking to, imo.

[Frater Cornelius]

Personally, I would've preferred the new Self Sacrifice version to be 1CP, and instead of limiting the other stratagem to 3MW, to lower the trigger to 5+ rolls.

Having said that, it still works fine and I doubt it will make them unplayable. They are still Marines, that means they have a very strong core. Everything else is just the the cherry on top.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Frater Cornelius

[SallyForth]

Self sacrifice still serves me incredibly well. It’s a very, very strong stratagem, even nerfed. Every game I use it, it causes 2 things:

 

1: my opponent has to make sub optimal, sometimes outright bad, decisions to kill a unit that he shouldn’t even be thinking about. It’s turn one or two, and he has to spend a majority of his shooting to kill a squad of five infiltrators!

 

2: it keeps my tough important unit, aggressors, alive long enough to get them into flamer range, and then melee.

 

I use the stratagem on a squad of five infiltrators, protecting a squad of flame aggressors. The infiltrators pop smoke and get drakeskin+fire shield if I go first. If I don’t, they are in cover from prepared positions and I pop Transhuman on them. Either way, a large portion of my opponents shooting phase is absorbed by basically worse Intercessors.

 

If the infiltrators fall below the five model threshold, I switch to a unit of intercessors flanking the aggressors.