540 replies to this topic

[Archaeinox]

I fear for Rubric Marines going to 2w with a points increase. They drop to multidmg weaponry already which also cuts through All is Dust. I feel like a points increase would only hurt me and just encourages people to continue taking Tzaangors. 

 

Am I wrong here?

Edited by Archaeinox, 22 November 2019 - 12:32 AM.

[Borgias]

This is looking great! REALLY like the rumor that cult troops are going to 2W each. I will spend the extra points for 2W Berserkers! Holy god yes! Please be true!

You know this rumor is because GW never update datasheets inside a CA, only points cost. And sometimes an army wild rule. 

Edited by WarriorFish, 22 November 2019 - 09:05 AM.
Please do not dodge the swear filter

[MegaVolt87]

I fear for Rubric Marines going to 2w with a points increase. They drop to multidmg weaponry already which also cuts through All is Dust. I feel like a points increase would only hurt me and just encourages people to continue taking Tzaangors. 

 

Am I wrong here?

 

Can't have cost effective cult marines now can we with 2W making them viable, so up the points on already pricy infantry. 

[wildweasel]

 

 

2 wound Plague Marines?

 

There are no words on this earth to describe my tumescentputrescent state.

 

Fixed that for you, you were getting things mixed up with Slaanesh there

 

Don't knock it before you try it?

 

 

Why not both?

[wildweasel]

This is looking great! REALLY like the rumor that cult troops are going to 2W each. I will spend the extra points for 2W Berserkers! Holy god yes! Please be true!

You know this rumor is BS because GW never update datasheets inside a CA, only points cost. And sometimes an army wild rule.

Last CA updated Intercessors and several Chaos Daemon Datasheets.

[Lemondish]

This is looking great! REALLY like the rumor that cult troops are going to 2W each. I will spend the extra points for 2W Berserkers! Holy god yes! Please be true!

You know this rumor is BS because GW never update datasheets inside a CA, only points cost. And sometimes an army wild rule.

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but CA18 had an entire section for updated datasheets called... you guessed it, "Updated Datasheets". It was 4 pages long with 5 sheets.

[XIXWYRMEXIX]

A four point Grot would just be the worst. They already compare poorly to... well, anything, really. They are the lowest quality troop in the game. Filling a detachment slot isn't a justification for a premium points cost.

 

This, if true, would make me sad. 

[CaptainMarsh]

 

This is looking great! REALLY like the rumor that cult troops are going to 2W each. I will spend the extra points for 2W Berserkers! Holy god yes! Please be true!

You know this rumor is BS because GW never update datasheets inside a CA, only points cost. And sometimes an army wild rule. 

 

This is factually incorrect as they have updated datasheets in CA..

[Raven1]

I fear for Rubric Marines going to 2w with a points increase. They drop to multidmg weaponry already which also cuts through All is Dust. I feel like a points increase would only hurt me and just encourages people to continue taking Tzaangors.

Am I wrong here?

I think I posted somewhere on the chaos sub forums that this would a disappointing Chapter Approved. This was written before Marines were dominant. It doesn't take into account the new supplements or the Pyschic Awakening changes. Marines will become more dominant and more dominant either until one of two things happen. GW is willing to do a major point overhaul before next Chapter Approved or wait until the next Chapter Approved.

Even if there is a 9th edition it will likely just incorporate changes and tweak a few rules, nothing ground breaking.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I really don't get it. 

 

If they increase Rubricae to 20 ppm, or 19ppm, and gave them 2 wounds? 

 

That is a net gain of 10-20 points for the squad....... and DOUBLE the wound count. How in any way shape or form is this an issue or a negative? Does some army roll around with basic infantry carrying D2 firearms? Or am I missing something important? (yes I get it that many armies can field lots of multi-damage but that hardly makes up majority army comp) 

 

Do people think that GW is going to hit us with a 50 point increase for the squad? even if its a 20 point increase (20 ppm for rubricae in this case) I still see so much merit in this decision from both a fluff and gameplay perspective that I can't help but think "HOLY CRAP" Rubrics will be FLUFF ACCURATE and *STELLAR* on the table. 

 

Though perhaps I am biased. I see it as a gain for all 4 cult legions and their elite slot variants. 

[Raven1]

The issue is a points increase without being able to stay on the table any longer. There are a plethora of D2 weapons and all these shiny new marines are getting several bonuses including increases to damage. That and marines who sucked when CA19 was being written will likely get several points decreases.

[Ahzek451]

That is a net gain of 10-20 points for the squad....... and DOUBLE the wound count. How in any way shape or form is this an issue or a negative? Does some army roll around with basic infantry carrying D2 firearms? Or am I missing something important?

Yeah a little bit. Met the stalker bolt rifle? Also with iron hands? There are a lot more d2 d1-3 weapons these days. And a unit that already has a rule that is negated by d1+, it's just going to beg for being shot at with those weapon types. The increase in pts, even if minor, will elevate it further.

[chapter master 454]

If shield drones can't use their FNP on the mortal wound then they go back to being pointless really. To be honest, if they wanted to sort out how tough they were to shoot they should just alter the rule to state that the FNP only works on Mortal Wounds. Otherwise, rip Shield Drones.

 

Been saying also the whole issue with Primaris being a corner they can't write out of very well. End of the day, all marines should of been 2 wounds to begin with and is one of the "last era" hang overs from set stats and the lack of damage stat back then.

[Sonoftherubric21]

The issue is a points increase without being able to stay on the table any longer. There are a plethora of D2 weapons and all these shiny new marines are getting several bonuses including increases to damage. That and marines who sucked when CA19 was being written will likely get several points decreases.

 

I don't for one second believe that the current codex will have marines drop in price. Not a chance in hell. 

 

It is almost certainly talking about OTHER loyalist books that are being updated. Not the current just released codex and its supplements. 

[Lagrath]

My guy is saying 9th is coming next year, he gave me all the faith and fire stuff before it was even mentioned.

Wow, thanks for the confirmation. Nice.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

That is a net gain of 10-20 points for the squad....... and DOUBLE the wound count. How in any way shape or form is this an issue or a negative? Does some army roll around with basic infantry carrying D2 firearms? Or am I missing something important?

Yeah a little bit. Met the stalker bolt rifle? Also with iron hands? There are a lot more d2 d1-3 weapons these days. And a unit that already has a rule that is negated by d1+, it's just going to beg for being shot at with those weapon types. The increase in pts, even if minor, will elevate it further.

 

 

Most intercessor players I have met don't even use stalkers. They use the basic rifles as it limits their mobility in most lists. I don't see it as being an issue. If we happen to get lucky and they stay the same price? That is a flat win across the board. 

 

I also have only played against Salamanders with the their new supplement/dex. I am sure iron hands are plenty mean but they are hardly a tenth of the gamer base. 

 

My regular opponents are harlies, dark eldar, necrons, sallies, Imperial Knights, and Khorne daemons/marines. I know there is plenty of D2. but I think the wound increase will only be a net gain against (I would say) 8 out of 10 lists. 

[DuskRaider]

The only one that will really benefit from 2W are Plague Marines, which is a shame because all of the Cult Troops need help these days.

And I sure hope the +1W goes to Terminators as well. Especially my Blightlords and Deathshroud.

Edited by DuskRaider, 22 November 2019 - 02:58 AM.

[Ahzek451]

It will be if we don't get a points increase. Of course that would be a gain. And while I understand the armies you usually play against, you have also expressed not playing in a very competative environment. Having played against a large spectrum of armies, both competitive and non, yeah...my rubrics have noticed an increase in higher damage weapons. An extra wound will only be noticable against the weapons that all is dust was already good against. And that isnt all that good if we get a pts increase. Cult marines already teeter on the brink of "elite" status in pts cost, and if I were fighting rubrics, I wouldnt break a sweat about deciding to throw d2+/random damage at them.

Edited by Ahzek451, 22 November 2019 - 03:04 AM.

[kombatwombat]

As someone who has been playing Firstborn Crusader Squads for ages and recently tried counting them as Intercessors, 2W would be a massive boon to every cult troop. If that extra wound comes for free, it’s a massive buff. If that extra wound comes at +20pts per model, it’s a nerf. Somewhere on that spectrum there is ‘a good solid buff’.

[Sonoftherubric21]

It will be if we don't get a points increase. Of course that would be a gain. And while I understand the armies you usually play against, you have also expressed not playing in a very competative environment. Having played against a large spectrum of armies, both competitive and non, yeah...my rubrics have noticed an increase in higher damage weapons. An extra wound will only be noticable against the weapons that all is dust was already good against. And that isnt all that good if we get a pts increase. Cult marines already teeter on the brink of "elite" status in pts cost, and if I were fighting rubrics, I wouldnt break a sweat about deciding to throw d2+/random damage at them.

 

But random damage gets *weaker* against a 2 wound model. Not stronger. You have the chance of wasting the entire shot even if the wound does go through yes? (I am presuming you are firing D3 damage shots) so theres a 33% shot of the Rubric sucking up 2 of those attacks. 

 

D2 flat of course is problematic but it already was so hardly any "bigger" of an issue, its a 50% increase against all basic weaponry for things like Crons or Marines that can just throw out TORRENTS of d1 damage with substantial AP. 

[Ahzek451]

The math you expressed is already known, the problem is: since the index days till now, more and more weapons have received damage increases, be it random or not, thus more potential to ignore all is dust, and d3 damage will still do its job if more d3 damage weapons exist. D2 is problematic, even more so that there is more of this. You see the point? I get your saying 2 wounds is a good thing, and I agree...so long as we dont get a points increase.

[Sonoftherubric21]

The math you expressed is already known, the problem is: since the index days till now, more and more weapons have received damage increases, be it random or not, thus more potential to ignore all is dust, and d3 damage will still do its job if more d3 damage weapons exist. D2 is problematic, even more so that there is more of this. You see the point? I get your saying 2 wounds is a good thing, and I agree...so long as we dont get a points increase.

 

That is fair. I don't really see them going up personally. 

 

I also don't believe the "Chaos marines will not get points decreases" at all. For the entire edition Loyalist and Chaos "mirror" units have been identical in cost. That will almost assuredly stay the case. I do however believe the obvious "competition" units will get hit. Disco + Plauges. 

 

Though obviously Cult units if getting this update are up in the air points wise. No clue what GW will do. Its almost like the books are written in vacuums without other players cross-comparing. 

[kombatwombat]

since the index days till now, more and more weapons have received damage increases, be it random or not, thus more potential to ignore all is dust, and d3 damage will still do its job if more d3 damage weapons exist.

The only change in damage that affects All Is Dust is going from Dmg1 to DmgNot-1. Honestly, I can’t even think of any.

Can you name, say ten? Ten weapons that were Dmg1 in the Index and became DmgNot-1 in the later Codex? If more and more weapons are receiving these increases, surely you should be able to kick out a list of examples easily?

[Drudge Dreadnought]

What weapons are we even talking about here? Can we get a list of D2 weapons that aren't heavy weapons better shot at vehicles or monsters? If your Rubrics start pulling plasma fire away from your bigger units, then they're doing their job!

 

There's plasma of several types, but afaik there's less of that being spammed than there used to be. And that often needs to be aimed at big stuff.

There's stalker bolt rifles, but are those all that common?

There's Knight Avenger Gatlings.

What else is common and not better shot at armor?

 

Meanwhile, we've just seen a huge meta shift where there's a ton more viable bolt weapons on the table. Lots of S4 ap-1 or -2 shooting on the table all of a sudden. And W2 is great again these.

Edited by Drudge Dreadnought, 22 November 2019 - 03:37 AM.

[01RTB01]

Is it wrong to claim this all as moot as 9th Ed is round the corner?...