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Is this the end of specialised chapter units (Death Company)


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#26
Doctor Perils

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My only question is why they didn't make it rievers or infiltrators instead of intercessors. It would definitely have been more fitting that way.

I don't mind though- After all, death company started out all those years ago as just tacticals that you painted black. You used to put them in rhinos!


Now, I really don't know this, but it doesn't necessarily sound like the Death Company _only_ have intercessor squads. If anything, it nearly looks like a faction keyword, and any type of squad could therefore be included.

A *BLACK COMPANY* faction may also have associated relics and WT?

Don't get your hopes up about this one though, this is merely speculation!
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#27
Nemesor Tyriks

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My only question is why they didn't make it rievers or infiltrators instead of intercessors. It would definitely have been more fitting that way.
I don't mind though- After all, death company started out all those years ago as just tacticals that you painted black. You used to put them in rhinos!


Now, I really don't know this, but it doesn't necessarily sound like the Death Company _only_ have intercessor squads. If anything, it nearly looks like a faction keyword, and any type of squad could therefore be included.
A *BLACK COMPANY* faction may also have associated relics and WT?
Don't get your hopes up about this one though, this is merely speculation!
The WHC article said when they fall to the black rage, they are put into intercessor squads. So I think that's gonna be it for now.

#28
Dark Shepherd

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When they get their new warehouse and factory open next year that massively increases the potential for specialised chapter Primaris

At the moment they are just focusing on the majority/what sells best which is codex compliant Primaris
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#29
Panzer

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Last thing we heard about that was them saying that they plan to have the new factory online this winter.

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#30
Elzender

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I personally think it makes kinda sense for DC to be using tacticus armour. Phobos armour probably has more sophisticated components for the enhanced agility and stealth capacity, which are kinda lost on a frothing lunatic which is quite likely to start screaming for the blood of the enemy and rush headlong into the fray. So I can see Blood Angels just giving them the "basic" armour to limit the resources spent on them. Tacticus is also probably a bit more protective than phobos, which will help them reach the enemy lines and start making heretic mincemeat.

As for special units going away, I don't think GW plans to just homogenize the divergent chapters, but as other fraters have said, they probably want to first build up the basic range before starting giving special units. Imagine if say Bllod Angels or Space Wolves get a specialised melee primaris unit, and the rest of the chapters (codex and divergent) have to wait months or even over a year to receive a similar unit. That would probably not sit well with most players, considering it already happened with the new units marines got during the last editions and that other chapters had to wait a long time to get. Plus, it is widely accepted now that GW has been struggling with production issues for the past few years. Hopefully the new factory will help them resolve them, and potentially speed up all releases. Whether that is actually a good thing is a different issue, as the releases pace is actually quite crazy to catch up on if you happen to collect more than one faction or different GW systems such as AoS, Necromunda, etc.

Edited by Elzender, 26 November 2019 - 05:49 PM.

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#31
Doctor Perils

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The WHC article said when they fall to the black rage, they are put into intercessor squads. So I think that's gonna be it for now.

You're probably right, but the article can be read as "intercessors that fall to the black rage are reorganised into separate intercessor squads"

Long shot I know :(
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#32
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At the moment they are just focusing on the majority/what sells best which is codex compliant Primaris

But all we have is compliant Primaris, they dont sell any other kind. 


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#33
Dark Shepherd

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At the moment they are just focusing on the majority/what sells best which is codex compliant Primaris

But all we have is compliant Primaris, they dont sell any other kind.

Well yeah. Partly given production resources and or roll out of the range a marine unit usable by every Marine chapter codex adherent or not is going to sell way more than a SW/DA/BA only unit or even one for each combined. Is what Im trying to say, shouldve said generic not codex compliant really in my post

#34
Karhedron

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But all we have is compliant Primaris, they dont sell any other kind.


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#35
Rik Lightstar

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Lately GW have seemed more eager to expand their range than at any point in the last 20+ years. Sisters are coming back, Genestealer Cults are a thing again, Specialist games are getting long term support in plastic as well as resin.

 

I think what we'll see is the re-evolution of the Chapters and their units, that was how the original Marine releases went, with initially most things being largely generic and then the gradual introduction of variant models for units (not characters) really starting with the 2nd edition Space Wolves.

 

They've said in the background stuff for Primaris that:

  1. Cawl left flaws in place in most cases
  2. The Primaris Marines haven't started showing flaws during Guilliman's Crusade
  3. After the Crusade, some Blood Angels Primaris have started suffering the Black Rage

All of this tees it up nicely for them to add in variant Primaris units through the campaign expansion model that they're using lately as and when it suits their needs. They may not be identical to current units, and it may be that this is a good opportunity to do some interesting stuff.

 

For Space Wolves for example, instead of just going straight in with the same Blood Claws, Grey Hunters, Long Fangs and Wolf Guard, what if they introduce a unit of Primaris Huskarls with the Body Guard rule and armed with axes and combat shields , that'd be a really interesting step.

 

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#36
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They are getting rid of normal marines so I'm not going to waste my money.

 

 

 

What? Since when? Where did they say that? How are they going to explain away the hundreds of thousands of Firstborn Space marines fluff-wise? 



#37
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They are getting rid of normal marines so I'm not going to waste my money.

 

 

 

What? Since when? Where did they say that? How are they going to explain away the hundreds of thousands of Firstborn Space marines fluff-wise? 

 

 

They never outright said it but it's to be expected.

As for how they are going to explain it in-universe? That's really unbelievably easy. After a while Chapters acknowledge that Primaris are superior and switch to turning recruits only into Primaris. Eventually the last classic Marine dies in battle. Voilá only Primaris, no more classic Marines.


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#38
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They are getting rid of normal marines so I'm not going to waste my money.



What? Since when? Where did they say that? How are they going to explain away the hundreds of thousands of Firstborn Space marines fluff-wise?

They didn’t say it, GW have in fact said the opposite that normal marines are staying and are still in production in universe.

People like to say they are going for various reasons (mainly due to cynicism, I’m always right and it’s obviously happening cause reasons syndrome and just pure trolling).
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#39
Wulf Vengis

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It's more likely that GW will begin adding the classic marines to the "Legends" list over the next year or two and eventually that'll be it. Once their on the "Legends" list they'll be disqualified from tournament play and will see less and less use. I can't see them continuing production on a line they aren't actively following.
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#40
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Wait to see how they are done in PA 3. In the IF supplement, the vets intercessors are just painted up 1st co with no dedicated vet kit.

In that case the Veterans are an upgrade via CP, but this could be a proper Primaris DC update. That said, PA is clearly a 1.5 update for the armies contained within (2.5 for C:SM perhaps unless the stuff within was left out of the codex just to put into these books) and we could see a proper kit or upgrade sprue come out with the codex later.

 My company inform me that their new primaris brother just don't fit in the safety harnesses. And the Chaplain won't let us ride unless we buckle up.


#41
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But all we have is compliant Primaris, they dont sell any other kind.


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No different to a special character in my eyes, so doesnt count. I mean actual squad boxes like Blood Claws, Death Company. 


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#42
Son of Sacrifice

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I think 5 years from now the primaris line will have been fleshed out considerably, and we'll laugh about this kind of speculation. It's also worth pointing out that in the last 5 years we've had new Assault and Devastator marine kits, and the tactical squad box is just a little bit older than that. We are only two years in Primaris.
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#43
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I think 5 years from now the primaris line will have been fleshed out considerably, and we'll laugh about this kind of speculation. It's also worth pointing out that in the last 5 years we've had new Assault and Devastator marine kits, and the tactical squad box is just a little bit older than that. We are only two years in Primaris.

That's been my bet. I've seen people complaining about the lack of full wargear options for the Primaris DC in the new book, but the unit evdn existing shows a desire to expand in that direction.

I'd argue the Wulfen being as large as they are means all they'll need is a keyword change to sort them out for Primaris status.

 My company inform me that their new primaris brother just don't fit in the safety harnesses. And the Chaplain won't let us ride unless we buckle up.


#44
Panzer

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GW has yet get to Veteran Primaris. So far we got a smattering of everything to give Primaris a functioning starting point and the new fancy thing that is Vanguard (aka Scouts turned to 11).

Nearly everything people want is a Veteran unit in the Marine codex. Terminators, Vanguard Veterans, Sternguard Veterans, chapter specific units like Sanguinary Guard. Coincidentally Veterans also include all the melee units Marines have access to (okay except for Assault Centurions but Centurions are weird anyway) which Primaris players have been waiting for.

Most Marine lists go heavy on veterans + vehicles or close/ranged support + vehicles with only a little bit of Battleline, so half of that is missing for Primaris yet. There's still lots to come and specialised chapter units are still very much a possibility. ;) 


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#45
Dark Shepherd

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I think 5 years from now the primaris line will have been fleshed out considerably, and we'll laugh about this kind of speculation. It's also worth pointing out that in the last 5 years we've had new Assault and Devastator marine kits, and the tactical squad box is just a little bit older than that. We are only two years in Primaris.

That's been my bet. I've seen people complaining about the lack of full wargear options for the Primaris DC in the new book, but the unit evdn existing shows a desire to expand in that direction.

I'd argue the Wulfen being as large as they are means all they'll need is a keyword change to sort them out for Primaris status.

Dont have the direct source but GW did Wulfen were deliberately futureproofed sizewise
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#46
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Specialized units. It's not a matter of IF but WHEN. 

 

I'm fairly convinced the WHEN is not any time soon, as stuff is still being added to the base generic line.


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#47
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I tend to agree. Wave 1 has given us line infantry and special weapons. Phase 2 has given us infiltration. I would expect to see a melee wave and a fire support wave at some point (not sure about a veteran wave).

Once the Primaris line has all the basics covered, I expect we will start to see specialist units appearing with their own kits. But the important thing to remember is that the current assorted Marine variant units have taken 25 years to reach this point. GW are not in a position to replace Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, Deathwing, Ravenwing, Wolfy McWolf-face all in one go.

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Edited by Karhedron, 03 December 2019 - 02:22 PM.

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#48
Doctor Perils

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Tbh, if they ever do get round to specialist units, I'd like them to focus a bit more on the not-"big four" - specialist WS bikers, flamer and melta close support salamanders, Gorgon Gravis, that kind of stuff.
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#49
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Tbh, if they ever do get round to specialist units, I'd like them to focus a bit more on the not-"big four" - specialist WS bikers, flamer and melta close support salamanders, Gorgon Gravis, that kind of stuff.

Hell to the yes on that, especially Salamanders. I'd like to see Raven Guard and Imperial Fist specialists too- perhaps Primaris Breachers for the Fists and maybe a sort of callback to those Heresy era lone assassins whose name escapes me for the sons of Corax?


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#50
Triszin

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Specialized units. It's not a matter of IF but WHEN.

I'm fairly convinced the WHEN is not any time soon, as stuff is still being added to the base generic line.


I think we're 3-4 years from them
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