lonewolf81 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) For some reason they always mess up with spacewolves...Bjorn is at least more reasonable now Edited November 28, 2019 by Triszin DO NOT DODGE THE SWEAR FILTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I'm curious to see what stormshields and our ranged are now. If storm shields went to 2pt for twolves I can dream Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment Angel of Solitude pointed this out in News thread but they accidentally printed the codex points for SW fast attack, none of the changes from last years CA were included so itll have to be FAQd pronto Huh, so there's a chance twolves will get a point drop? Any idea what the fw stuff got adjusted to? Still a chance but have a feeling their reaction will be whoops we skipped that bit, ah well Havent seen any FW leaks so far NightHowler 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 cost of SW "scouts" could be because there is no scouts but more elites and loners? Well, last i checked atleast Fluff wise this is true but if you dont give us rules that reflect that then they are just worse for no reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluescope Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) Still a chance but have a feeling their reaction will be whoops we skipped that bit, ah well Havent seen any FW leaks so far I will send mail to GW after receiving the book. They definitely forgot to adjust the points after copying the codex. Doing something is better than doing nothing. Edited November 29, 2019 by bluescope Dark Shepherd 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Is Logan Grimnar on Stormrider worth consideration now? If not, what would be required to make him an appealing choice in a SW army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Is Logan Grimnar on Stormrider worth consideration now? If not, what would be required to make him an appealing choice in a SW army? IMO hes a good bullet catcher, T6 12 wounds 3+/4++ he'll soak a reasonable amount of firepower but he will attract a lot of firepower as hes too big/awkward to hide easily. Almost a bonus of rerolling all failed hits if you go first and or he survives. Wouldnt make him my warlord though Can be healed by both Wolf AND Iron Priests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Dan Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 He’s 2+ now, right? Not that it matters much in a competitive meta. Most lists have ways of killing a knight in one turn. He’s squishier than a knight. If you’re playing in a group that doesn’t see a lot of knights or big vehicles he’s a reasonable choice. What would make him useable would be sending wounds to wolf guard that act like tau drones. Maybe on a 3/4+ instead of a 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) My bad hes 2+ Someone on twitter who has seen the full book is telling me TWC stormshields are staying at 10 points sadly Edited November 29, 2019 by Dark Shepherd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 They REALLY don’t want us using those T-wolves do they... I might need to make an all Thunderwolf army just out of pure stubbornness now. Waking Dreamer, NightHowler and Harald Fairmane 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) They REALLY don’t want us using those T-wolves do they... I might need to make an all Thunderwolf army just out of pure stubbornness now.Those start collecting space wolves boxes are just for painting practice :) Expect them to come roaring back in PA4 after everyone goes out and buys replacement models Edited November 29, 2019 by Dark Shepherd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHowler Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 At some point it becomes too obvious that model power level and point cost are adjusted by GW not for “play balance” (air quotes) but to motivate the purchase of new models. If players of the game (and therefore purchasers of the models) catch on that GW is manipulating them it’s not so bad as long as they enjoy the game enough to keep playing, but if they get angry then there is bad publicity as more players go online to complain, decreasing sales. GW (as a for profit corporation with no desire for anything but your money) realizes this and so the game (from their perspective) is to motivate their customers just enough to get them to buy new models by making older models worthless on the tabletop and new models nigh unbeatable, while trying to keep it from being too obvious that they don’t care about you or the game and only want your money. If you don’t think they have a mathematician and a psychologist (neither of whom play 40k) on staff just to help them balance this equation to get maximum profit out of your wallet, then you are their prime target for the next new hotness. My guess is that TWC didn’t sell enough models to recoup losses on the R&D and production side due to late release and third parties making alternative/better models available before GWs release. Wulfen on the other hand came out with models and rules at the same time so very very likely outsold TWC by miles. Thus we see Wulfen get better (and other even more useful newer models coming out) and TWC get worse (by being left behind while other units get cheaper) in a standard algorithmic attempt to get people to buy models. My guess is that unless new TWC models are made (or unless GW starts to think that it’s too obvious that they’ve been made useless on purpose), then TWC will never get better and will never see the tabletop again. All of this is conjecture on my part of course, but if I were a soulless and greedy corporation (hint: all corporations are soulless and greedy), I would have a whole team of statisticians and psychologists on staff to help me squeeze the most out of my customers. I’d probably even pay them better than the artists who design my models. Waking Dreamer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 I don't think GW has psychologists or mathematicians on their payroll. IMO GW was way behind the times on tracking what customers wanted and its why they were in such rough shape in 7th edition. I think a lot of their recent success has been because of the surveys they do on the community site, and adding the army tabs to the webstore. I don't know how well Thunder Wolves sold, but I don't think they were a bust at all they're a very common sight in the states. That said Wulfen fit in better with the Primaris range than thunderwolves do, and I think they pushed harder because of it. I'm pretty excited with these point changes now we just need our PA update and we'll be in good shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 @Nighthowler You point is likely partially true, except that I dont see how making models unplayable actually helps their bottom line. If, as you assert in your scenario they didnt recoup the RnD and production costs wouldn't that incentivise them to make them good rules to move the product they spent time and effort developing and therefore recoup their losses? That seems like the better scenario as a business. That said I think the true scenario is after 7th edition's boom for Tcav they made all the money they needed off Tcav and because everyone screamed they were to good it was a good time to nerf them into the ground and continue to keep them down. Still the same soulless corporation but I think a more sensible angle. Long and short as old marines I suspect they are gunna kill em for the next new primaris thing. TSkouboe 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Let’s keep this on track with the CA brothers. The Fang isn’t the place for math and business... Watcher 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHowler Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 I apologize brothers. I do have a tendency to be more cynical than is probably healthy. My post started out as an explanation for why I don’t expect TWC to ever get better again and morphed way off topic. Bottom line, I’m hopeful that newer models will get better, suspicious that older models will stay about the same or fall behind, and certain that TWC will not get better and will probably get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewolf81 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) Wraiths went down to 42 but thunderwolves stayed the same at 8pts (as it seems) higher... Wraiths have better strength, damage, movement and abilities... I can only laugh at gw balance...they can't see the obvious things...at least they could give them 2pts shields to be somehow closer to wraiths (wraiths would still be better for the same points) but they obviously don't want us to use thunderwolves for years now... Any news on blizzard shields Edited November 30, 2019 by lonewolf81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 2 points is too cheap for Thunderwolf shields just as its too cheap for HQ choice shields, it makes sense for 4W models to pay more for a 3+ save than a 1 wound vanguard veteran does. If Thunderwolves were good on their own you'd be willing to pay 10 points to give them a 3+ invulnerable, its always going to be a false choice upgrade that you always take. They're clearly balanced wrong but lowering the base points over-all would do pretty much the same thing. Multi-wound heavy infantry are the best thing in the marine book right now, there are ways to make thunderwolves good without making storm shields even more of a auto-take. Khorne juggernauts are similarly kind of garbage despite them printing a new datasheet for them in soon to be two chapter approved books. Thunder-wolves don't have to be balanced against wraiths, they have to be balanced against stuff like wolfguard bikers and then the whole imperium soup stuff (which basically means custodes jetbikes which thunder wolves should definitely be quite a bit cheaper than). All of this is conjecture on my part of course, but if I were a soulless and greedy corporation (hint: all corporations are soulless and greedy), I would have a whole team of statisticians and psychologists on staff to help me squeeze the most out of my customers. I’d probably even pay them better than the artists who design my models. I don't think that's how psychologists work. If GW wanted to encourage the use of new models why are there completely useless new banshees while shining spears remain the only viable Eldar melee option? Why are the aforementioned codex marine centurions the best thing in the new marine book? Those predate Wulfen and maybe even the plastic thunderwolf cavalry, I'm not sure I was out of the hobby for 6th/early 7th. I apologize brothers. I do have a tendency to be more cynical than is probably healthy. Nah, you're just using the wrong sort of cynicism. Just because some group has the motivation to screw you over doesn't mean they have the omniscient knowledge to actually know how to benefit from your particular pet peeve of the moment. Edited November 30, 2019 by Closet Skeleton Chazzmos 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) Edit Edited November 30, 2019 by Dark Shepherd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 TWC shields now 5 points Helfrost cannon 17 Twin Helfrost 25 Tempest Hammer 17 Arentius, Karhedron, Triszin and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Nice are those all confirmed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Those would be nice changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 All official. Striking Scorpion 82 on youtube went through all the changes Iron Priests looking like good value now Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Nice! Dark Shepherd 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triszin Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 :D Any other point changes, did the multi melta get cheaper on the stormwolf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Shepherd Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Dont think any generic marine stuff changed (from marines 2.0 codex) As suspected all other marines didnt get their fast attack mostly increased Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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