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Prot's Awakening. A tale of my Eldar Folly.

Eldar craftworlds Prots eldar

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#26
Prot

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Some great thoughts there.

 

I normally do a bit of weathering on my models, but it definitely depends on the army or genre. In this case I think some desert dusting will work nice to bring some more life to it.

 

Stealing a picture from my blog, this is pretty hardcore so I wouldn't go this far with eldar, but it gives the idea of the finished basework..

 

Knight-full1.jpg?w=854&ssl=1

 

 

I have another silly question...

 

Skyrunner jet bikes.

 

They are measured from the base? Correct? (not the model).

Is the official base size 25mm? 

 

I find the stem sits on this little plastic see-through disk, and I really want to replace it with a different base. I want to drill a hole in a heavier base, but I don't want to come across as 'modeling for advantage'. I'd love to use a small oval (biker) base, or even a 32mm. But again I may be using these in tournament play and don't want to use something deemed illegal.


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#27
Emicus

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It might just be the picture, yeah, but the air intakes just.. Seems like a big flat colour 'odd one out' next to the rest of the paint job. Liking the bronze more than the white though.

Wash it down so the crevices are almost black?

Also you forgot the air vents at the back by the 'spoiler', maybe that would tie the colours in more regardless of choice too. It won't be just two big orbs smack dab in the middle of a holographic light show. Its also the same as the belt feed on your cannons, yeah?

As for what you changed, I wanna say the purple glow.

#28
Prot

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It might just be the picture, yeah, but the air intakes just.. Seems like a big flat colour 'odd one out' next to the rest of the paint job. Liking the bronze more than the white though.

Wash it down so the crevices are almost black?

Also you forgot the air vents at the back by the 'spoiler', maybe that would tie the colours in more regardless of choice too. It won't be just two big orbs smack dab in the middle of a holographic light show. Its also the same as the belt feed on your cannons, yeah?

As for what you changed, I wanna say the purple glow.

 

Good guess, but it's the cockpit changed. I decided to not do the pattern on the cockpit.

 

I keep getting different answers for the vents. I like black for the stealth appearance.  The metallic is a good contrast, but almost too..... "Human" looking. (Metal contruction is for the Mon-keigh! Eldar prefer... er... magic ceramics!)


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#29
Captain Coolpants

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The cockpits look cool!

Im torn between the gold... I like it, but also don't lol. The black I think looks best.
But in all honesty. I think all the option are great!

Edited by Captain Coolpants, 05 December 2019 - 08:36 AM.


#30
Slasher956

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Skyrunner jet bikes.

 

They are measured from the base? Correct? (not the model).

Is the official base size 25mm? 

 

I find the stem sits on this little plastic see-through disk, and I really want to replace it with a different base. I want to drill a hole in a heavier base, but I don't want to come across as 'modeling for advantage'. I'd love to use a small oval (biker) base, or even a 32mm. But again I may be using these in tournament play and don't want to use something deemed illegal.

 

yes you measure to the base.... for everything that has one

 

However the offical base for jet bikes is the clear base that they come with.... 

 

personally I dont see how changing the base size is 'modeling for advantage' as the bonus is a larger area to measure from so give you a small increas in range /auras ... however its now harder to hide (as that goes off the base) and your larger foot print for being measured TO


Dyspraxic & Dyslexic  - So I might not write/explain what I think I have as clearly as intended to.... 

 

I'm confussed... what side of the fence am I on???

 

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#31
Captain Coolpants

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I don't see a problem with using a larger base on the jetbikes. You can never go base to base with them anyway because of the bike itself.

#32
Prot

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So a couple of things...

 

I've been painting like a nut... non stop when I get the chance. I'm really wanting to make this eldar force work, and I don't want to drop the ball on it and lose interest before I truly get into it. I find locally I was about the only Chaos Space Marine player, and Eldar wise there's only one real consistent Eldar guy and he plays a lot of ITC and a lot of flyers which to be honest, the flyers hold no real long term interest for me. (Aside from the fact I'd love to paint one or two up).

 

Anyway, I painted all the vents black on the vehicles and I'm moving on. I did realize in doing so it shows off the fact the main body of the vehicles really isn't that 'black'. The pure black vents show that now, and I will probably varnish them to a higher shine to show a different texture and add interest while maintaining that stealthier tech look.

 

Goal by end of week:

 

5 completed Wraiths. (D scythe squad that you see I've started). Complete with basing, etc.

2 completed Wave Serpents

1 Completed Farseer Skyrunner.

 

This means a few late night nights for sure. But with the scheme figured out, I should be good!

 

Two problems I have are bases on the Serpents, and base on the Skyrunner. As mentioned.... I really don't think it would be 'modeling for advantage'. I just wanted a cooler, and heavier base for the Skyrunner. A small oval, or 32mm Resin base might be what I go for.

 

The Serpents' disks always detach when I move them. I'm sure this is common. I don't want to drill magnets in the under carriages, but is there a better way?

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Order Update:

 

I split a new box with a dark eldar friend of mine (Blood of the Phoenix?)  (I don't know what I'm going to do with a second falcon... or the Vyper for that matter.

 

I dealt with GW customer service... at first they wanted to see a bill. They said they'd help, then said because it was from a non-GW retailer they wouldn't help. Then finally they said they would help, and they said they would send out a new box of Wraithguard! So that's fantastic. 

 

Also ordered 2 weeks ago (but my GW store missed a shipment?) of  the Vaul Battery thingy.... I'm thinking 3 Vibrocannons???? (Any thoughts on this?)

 

Still need some rangers....


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#33
Slasher956

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On the subject of the serpents... the base doesnt matter for any of our tanks they all have the hover tank rule (so falcons & fire prisms etc so you measure to the hull) so you can use what ever base you want.  Personally I find that when I move them I put the flat of my hand under the vehicle and hold the stem with the finguers to move it... or use two hand...or go censored.gif it and not use a base tongue.png

 

edit - vypers are good.. you can have 3 in a unit + they are bikes so can go in the webway with your infantry (strat) :P


Edited by Slasher956, 05 December 2019 - 03:24 PM.

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Dyspraxic & Dyslexic  - So I might not write/explain what I think I have as clearly as intended to.... 

 

I'm confussed... what side of the fence am I on???

 

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#34
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Thanks a lot for the advice on the Vypers. Since most of my army is Wraith based, I'm trying to keep a minimal infantry presence since it will get wacked pretty quickly. The idea of Vypers has always appealed to me, but when last I played they had the nasty 'open topped' issue which made them easy to get a destroy result. lol

 

I have a lot of eldar on my plate, but I'll look to add three of these in the future. (As a squad the buff psychic powers must get a lot of mileage as well!)

 

The base issue... I can see what you're thinking about the bases. I fear the stems snapping off, but the Serpent platform is very nicely distributed. However this is what I did with my Custodes bikes:

 

all-3-bikes-magnetized.jpg?resize=860%2C

 

all-3-new-bikes-side.jpg?resize=860%2C55

 

As a side note, this sort of base shape (not these actual bases since they would require a lot of work to fit into a desert scheme) is what I was  thinking for Skyrunner models.

 

Anyway, this is how I magnetized those bikes and was thinking of doing it for my Serpents, however these bikes took a certain magnet size perfectly. I don't think this is going to work for my Serpents (they were pre build I got them 'used'.) 

 

So perhaps I'll tough it out and just use the stem system they come with.


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#35
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Here is my final scheme. Two vehicles done, and a squad of Wraithguard.

 

med_gallery_2760_15992_172189.jpg

 

med_gallery_2760_15992_105154.jpg

 

If anyone's curious, how I came up with the scheme, and a few more pics are on my blog: https://prot40k.blog...nd-test-models/


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#36
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Another update on the army: I finished the Hemlock Wraithfighter.

 

Here's the scheme. It did take a few minor 're-do's'. I wanted it to appear somewhat... alive due to its background. 

 

med_gallery_2760_15992_162323.jpg

 

gallery_2760_15992_140392.jpg

 

Background info and more pics: https://prot40k.blog...-wraithfighter/


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#37
Captain_Krash

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OMG! That is gorgeous. Great battle shots as well. Sorry if you mentioned it. What templates are you using to get that dotted effect?

 

Krash 


Edited by Captain_Krash, 12 December 2019 - 04:17 PM.

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Ad Victoriam

 

For those we cherish, we die in glory!

 

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#38
Aothaine

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I'm never going to believe you again when you say you want a "tabletop quality army". This is ridiculously good!

Edited by Karhedron, 18 February 2020 - 10:48 AM.

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#39
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OMG! That is gorgeous. Great battle shots as well. Sorry if you mentioned it. What templates are you using to get that dotted effect?
 
Krash

 
It's a template.... that has a mild adhesive. It's still easy to mess up on all these curved surfaces. I think it's called deathray designs. The trick is paint consistency though. Slightly too thin and it leaks underneath the template.
 
Thanks for the compliment!
 

I'm never going to believe you again when you say you want a "tabletop quality army". This is ridiculously good!

 
lol. Thanks but honestly what happens is I get an idea in my head, and I can't put the model down. My wife is sometimes finding me in my painting area at any hour of the night. I intend to put the model down, but I can't. It was a few late nights to nail this. I had this idea of giving 'life' to the pattern since it's a Wraith unit (the background of the fighter is so cool.).  So I had this idea of shifting colours from cool to warm on the main body, getting cooler, more aquatic to the wings. But I couldn't get it right for hours. 
 
I'm glad you like it.

Edited by Karhedron, 18 February 2020 - 10:50 AM.

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#40
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So I had a game I'll probably put a batrep up for it on my blog. (just seemingly so few eldar players out there.)

 

And here I tried my Wraithknight again, but this time with Vigilus. 

 

I've come to realize something:

 

- Using a Wraithknight with Wraiths is tough. The volume of firepower per point when you are using 2-3 Wraith squads, and a WK is -extremely- low. The cumulative effect leaves a very lethargic ranged offense. 

 

- Using a Wraith based army means you aren't doing a ton of anything until you are about 8" away. 

 

- Using a Wraith based army means you have to emphasize survival for turns 1-2 or it's a non-starter.

 

- Using a Wraith based army means the rest of your army MUST carry the burden of providing distraction in the form of firepower. 

 

- It's not just about lack of firepower and a need to enhance survival. It means your HQ is nearly dedicated to this role. 

 

- It also means that you definitely lack a footprint in game. Maelstrom is much more rewarding of mobile ObSec than ITC is. This is a bit of a problem for me here.

 

It's a tougher route to go. As some of you have noticed I pulled Wraithlords entirely and I'm only keeping Wraiths at this point because they can be a in a vehicle. My belief is if you go against DE, or even worse Deathwatch, it's going to make a short game. Poison is anathema to the Wraith constructs. You pay dearly for them, and they fade hard to poison.

 

The Wraithknight itself is a coinflip. I've had it absorb a ton, but you're always thinking what you could have done with alternative units like... Fire Prisms, or Flyers, etc.  

 

However that being said in each of my 4 Wraithknight games he's had an impact .Even going second and absorbing a ton of firepower is not ideal but noteworthy.

 

In the games I gave him a shield/suncannon he was quite mediocre the random 2D6 shots. His stomping against a blob of boys was quite mediocre.

 

In the game I gave him 2 heavy Wraithcannons he heavily relies on the CP used for the Vigilus Strat for the 4++. Unfortunately another brutal match up with Necrons not giving a darn about all that damage. With their shield ability it was nearly a joke to shoot at their Doomsday Arks.

 

 

In the game I did squeak out another win. So I literally have not lost a game using the Knight. I can't explain it. They've all been close, and I have been seized on. Every one of these games has been an exercise in bailing out a sinking ship. I've been in the hole early in each game. My wins with the Knight have all been come from behind needing a turn 4-5 to do so.

 

I'm still really undecided on the Knight. I find a bigger question with the WK in the list is what to do with the Wraiths. Last game I pulled the D-scythes for the Wraithcannons and Deep striked them. That was a bad idea. I never had the ground control to get them where I needed and they had no good targets. The Scythes may have been better.

 

In all games the Wraithblades with Shields and Axes have been very good. With Protect they are a force to deal with. The Knight often gets Feel no pain, but these guys do work well even as a tarpit. The -1 to hit from the Axes does hurt. And they only get up to 3 attacks on the charge. So they often need help.

 

The Wraithblades with Blades aren't nearly survivable and are a harder sell since CA19, however they are nice and deadly against mid ranged infantry. I can throw the Axe / shield guys against anything. 

 

So I'm still in limbo with the army.

 

I lack a lot. I want to add a lot of units, but I simply can't. Even with 2 Wraith Units, and the WK,  I am stuck juggling minor points for troops, and basic support.  Wave Serpents are super important to this army for mobility so I tend to be careful with them. 

 

The Wraithfighter is another story. A very cool flyer that I loved painting. Again in this game it kind of did okay, but I did not want to get near the C'tan Transcendant. At one point I flew very close to it to snipe... BIG mistake. I decided to take that move back when I realized he would heroically intervene into my flyer.

 

So the Wraithfighter simply cast a power to prevent destroyers from targeting my main army, and shot out some wounds from Destroyer squads before getting absolutely clubbed to death by the C'tan in close combat.

 

It looks like I like the expensive units. None are really having an individual massive effect. Collectively I seem to be pulling off wins so far, but it certainly doesn't feel like they are 'solid' victories. :)


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#41
Aothaine

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So I had a game I'll probably put a batrep up for it on my blog. (just seemingly so few eldar players out there.)

 

Plenty at tournaments though right? Maybe they packed up their flyer shenanigans to mess around with codex marines shenanigans?

 

 

In my experience studying decent Eldar lists and players I've found that Eldar are a glass cannon army. They are really good at taking out priority targets and just try to survive by killing more than your opponent every turn. You seem to want to run wraiths and that it is. You will be on the back foot a lot though.

 

Would you consider running the Sky runner seer council? I'm not sure how decent they are in 8th but I remember them being a terror in 7th. Maybe using the Wraiths with Axes+shields is better as a soak until for other units that are more focused on front loading damage?

 

I wish I had more experiencing with Craftworlds. Have you considered just using the Wraiths as hammer units and flooding the board with guardians and platforms?


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#42
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So I had a game I'll probably put a batrep up for it on my blog. (just seemingly so few eldar players out there.)

 

Plenty at tournaments though right? Maybe they packed up their flyer shenanigans to mess around with codex marines shenanigans?

 

 

Would you consider running the Sky runner seer council? I'm not sure how decent they are in 8th but I remember them being a terror in 7th. Maybe using the Wraiths with Axes+shields is better as a soak until for other units that are more focused on front loading damage?

 

I wish I had more experiencing with Craftworlds. Have you considered just using the Wraiths as hammer units and flooding the board with guardians and platforms?

 

 

Thanks Aeothaine. I meant people on the forum don't seem to play much of Craftworlds. There aren't a lot of local Eldar players, most are DE, or if they are Eldar it's the mixture of flyer spam. (I'm talking 6-8).

 

It's not that I refuse to play other units. It's just that I used to play Eldar a lot in 3rd and 4th, but honestly a lot of those very same models are still in effect for the army and I can't stand them. lol

 

The Banshees appeal now, but they're really soft. 

 

I'm okay with playing the army mixed up a bit. I am just trying to avoid the old units and liked painting/playing the Wraith constructs. The Flyers are new to me so I like doing those as well, but would never go deeper than... 2 Crimsons and my existing Hemlock..?

 

Anyway, I'm realizing my affinity for those units is kind of killing me a bit. I think you can play a lot of Wraith Guard/Blades, but no Knight or maybe the Knight, but not as many Wraith Guard/ Blades.

 

I very well could be wrong, but they don't do enough damage. I believe the damage has to come from somewhere else. Again... I don't know. I'm doing something wrong.

 

Although winning most of my games, they are by the skin of my teeth in late game just out maneuvering opponents.


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#43
Aothaine

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I wonder if maybe building the list around banshees as the hammer and the wraiths as the anvil might work. You stated that the axe+shield wraiths have been all-stars in terms of survivability so far. If you do take them, and it would be cool if you did, you may want to use them to try and intercept the opponent's hammer units. 

 

 

 

Run a Battalion and a Vanguard maybe? I'm not sure on the points here. Maybe you could fit in a flyer or two? Or were you wanting to go with more wraiths?

 

Don't forget to add the reduce dmg by 1 gear for the waveserpents as well, and that strat that lets you pop your shields to do mortal wounds is really good too.

 

 

 

I'm okay with playing the army mixed up a bit. I am just trying to avoid the old units and liked painting/playing the Wraith constructs. The Flyers are new to me so I like doing those as well, but would never go deeper than... 2 Crimsons and my existing Hemlock..?

 

Hemlocks are the psycher flyers right? They are crazy strong. Even in pairs. "The Spider" from Tabletop Tactics is terrifying with them.

 

That is something that I've seen over and over again in Eldar batreps. They do a lot of what I like to refer to as comboing. So they combo a bunch of abilities/units together to get really good results. Ex. Guide & Doom. Based on your batreps I've read you're picking this up really fast. Also, you are correct. Walking the Wraiths up the field is suicide unless you have some other units that are posing a greater threat. The difficult part is finding other units that will give you that threat saturation since you don't want to build the typical units, which I completely understand.

 

So.. going with the idea that you want to run wraiths mainly. Have you considered an Avatar of Khaine? They do not seem super strong imho. But in the index they are HQ choices. Not sure if you can do it but if you can run two... this could work decently well. Hmmm I'll have to think about this more actually. But if you can run two AoKs that could open up the list and provide the extra threats you need. Something like this? Verified they are limited to one per army.

 

AoK

Psychers x2

Wraith Axe+Shield x2

Guardian Blob + Platform x3 (Moves up with the AoK

Dark Reapers x2

Hemlock x2

 

You might be able to drop the waveserpents in a list like this and walk the wraiths up the board with the AoK. From everything I've read on him is is an absolute monster in melee. You might even want to consider surrounding him with D-scythe wraiths instead. Force the opponent to decide between targeting the Wraiths, the AoK, Hemlocks or the Dark Reapers. Not sure on the cost of the list but I think nabbing an AoK might fix the issue your having. 

 

Edit: Looking over some of the rules for Craftworlds and the warlord traits are crazy good! Lol!

 

Anyway..

 

Are you open to Forgeworld? If you really wanted to stick with the Wraith theme you could potentially grab up a Wraithseer. Also, giving the AoK the WL trait Eye on Distant Events I think would be a good call. Also don't forget he allows you to reroll charges.


Edited by Aothaine, 17 December 2019 - 12:50 AM.


#44
Captain_Krash

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The Wraithseer looks to be a hidden gem now. I honestly think people just don't own the model but he looks on paper to be really effective. Gonna make an order for him soon and run maybe two Wraithlords with him up the field with a Knight supporting. It could be a death ball of "you have to deal with this now or good luck in melee."

 

Where do our Guardians stand currently? I have around 40 not built as I just run Dire Avengers/Wraiths much like Prot. I feel like I'm on the same journey as he is as well. Wraith heavy armies seem even more of a glass cannon army compared to standard Eldar list. The wins are satisfying as I enjoy games that go to the wire but man I'm sweating around turn 4-5. 

 

Krash


Edited by Captain_Krash, 17 December 2019 - 11:23 AM.

Ad Victoriam

 

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#45
Karhedron

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Guardians have the same problem they have had ever since 3rd edition when Gav Thorpe crippled them with short-ranged weaponry. 12" range guns on a T3/5+ model is just a bad combo unless the models are cheap enough to spam which Guardians really aren't.

Sorry, rant over. biggrin.png

People who want to use Guardians competitively tend to use 20 with 2 platforms and deploy them via the Webway. Combined with a couple of stratagems and/or psychic powers, they can put out a lot of damage (Guide, Black Guardians, Doom) and then Fire and Fade and/or Celestial shield to keep them alive for a repeat performance in your next turn.

Taking just a 10-man squad with a platform and using them as backfield objective holders is a pretty expensive way to get 1 heavy, even if it does have 10 ablative wounds. The problem is that you will rarely get mileage out of the shuricats that way.

I tend to rely on a mix of Avengers and Rangers for my Troops and they serve me pretty well on the whole. "Expert Crafters" might give Guardians (both Defender and Storm) a little bit extra since the reroll to Hit and Wound makes their heavy/special weapons a bit more reliable. Not completely convinced though.
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Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#46
Slasher956

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Get a little more life breathed in to them with other craftworld attribs... such as mobile fighters & superior shurikens... trouble is most things that helps standard guardians also helps  D.Avengers...

 

And as Karhedron said they're a bit to expensive to run purely for CP/ objective holding benefits!


Dyspraxic & Dyslexic  - So I might not write/explain what I think I have as clearly as intended to.... 

 

I'm confussed... what side of the fence am I on???

 

happy.png


#47
Captain_Krash

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Good Points on Guardians 

 

What about Vibro Cannons? They seem really cheap and good now  in terms of damage output combined with Expert Crafters over Night spinners? Or are Night spinners in a better position than the Cannons? Not mobile enough maybe?

 

Krash


Ad Victoriam

 

For those we cherish, we die in glory!

 

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#48
Emicus

Emicus

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Night spinners don't need to be mobile? 48'' range and ignore LOS

#49
Captain_Krash

Captain_Krash

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I was referring to the Vibro cannons as its a gun platform

 

Krash


Ad Victoriam

 

For those we cherish, we die in glory!

 

gallery_45765_12339_50558.png


#50
The Blood Raven

The Blood Raven

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I was running 10 wraith with axe and shield earlier this year. With a spirit seer they were rock hard and could move okay. My opponents would focus on them while the rest of my army collected objectives. The blades didn’t kill much - I tended to push them to monstrous creatures and vehicles to maximize the little damage output they tended to have. They’re the best anvil unit in the craft worlds book IMO.





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