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Prot's Awakening. A tale of my Eldar Folly.

Eldar craftworlds Prots eldar

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#76
Prot

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Since I read this post earlier I thumbed through the codex and checked the walkers out. They certainly look good. The points are extremely similar to Vypers. 
Honestly I’ve spent so much money and time on a lot of these models I don’t want to flip around too much however I keep seeing things work or give me ideas. 
 

for now the Knight is out. I’m keeping 8-10 axe wraiths.  
 

im trying to find a competitive way to ha e the two flyers on as well.  The rest is in the air. 


Edited by Prot, 02 January 2020 - 03:28 PM.

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#77
Emicus

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War-walkers are better gun platforms than wraithlords, that's for sure. Cheaper and has an invuln! Of course they fold in melee but that's why you save save save!

#78
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I have to admit I'm kind of lost for now. I may have to put the project away. 

 

I'm having greater success with AdMech, Chaos, etc. The units I like really don't seem to be working. So I either try to come up with ways to make them work, or I have made lists that are really non-Wraith based. They typically have scary small model counts, and lack in some area. 

 

I've been trying to follow some of the 'guides' out there, and some tournament players and the common elements I see are:

 

- Flyers seem dead post CA19. This might be just an overreaction, but I will say in using two of them (A single Hemlock, and Crimson Hunter) that they are fairly easy to kill and rarely do their 400 Pts of damage.

 

- Wraithknight. It's cheaper post CA19 however you pretty much have to give it the invuln build. If you don't, you better get into the Wraith Specialist (Vigilus) detachment. BUT if you do that you rob yourself of a lot of precious CP that the Eldar seem to need badly.

 

- Wraithknight part 2: It might be a better idea to simply take three, and just support with basic troops and Psykers.

 

- Wraith units: Much cheaper post CA19, but a lot of stuff got cheaper for a lot of armies. So what are you doing with them? And to make a "Wraith" based army means you're taking the most expensive, and perhaps least damage per point units in the codex. That's a tough way to launch a new army.

 

In my research I feel like a lot of Eldar players are really all over the place trying to find success Post CA19. There seem to be a few staples still: Colin and his Dark Reapers with Fire and Fade. (Kind of boring, but it's obviously working.) Also Shining Spears are in nearly all tournament lists now that you can give the single Exarch a 2++ invuln. 


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#79
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You are correct that if you are using custom crafworlds they have to have the same traits. Basically you would say my guys are from craftworld "Protoss" who are Expert Crafters and Wrath of the Dead, then all <Craftworld> keywords become <Protoss>

 

I think double battalion is a good idea for Eldar. Would three wraith lords and 10 Wraithblades feel wraith enough for you? Because I think that is a solid core to an eldar army which can be filled out with troops and some more ranged firepower. By having one keystone unit, you can stack all your psychic buffs onto the Wraithblades to make them super durable.

 

Double battalion also gets you enough CP to do things like Deep-striking the two flyers if you are not deep striking the wraithblades.     


Edited by sultansean, 04 January 2020 - 06:30 PM.

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#80
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Sultansean.... I feel like you are my Eldar space therapist! Every time I feel ‘done’ with them you spark an interesting thought. 
 

I did play against a pretty decent Tau army last night. For the first time I did not use my Wraithknight. I continued to use 10 footbound Wraithguard with axes. 
 

I will do a light report but spoiler alert ahead....

 

Banshees won me the game. 
 

the disappointment was still there. I won’t go into detail right now but suffice to say I think the flyers stunk. Perhaps the Hemlock was okay because of smite and him erasing 2 stealth suit squads with fusion thanks to his auto hitting heavy d scythes. But wow the Tau had no trouble erasing the flyers by bottom of  T2 I think. 
 

dark reapers were okay with fire and fade. The 3 vibrio cannons continue to be very good at what I consider to be a perfect point cost.  
but my Banshees ( which a few locals laughed at ) stole the show. 
 

+++++++++++++

 

Thanks for the clarity on craftworld detachments. 
 

As far as the list idea. I love the core idea. I just struggling to make it all work. Right now I will swap out about 50% of my list from one game to the next and it hardly seems to move the needle. 


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#81
SkimaskMohawk

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Really nice looking stuff in here prot. I'm starting to paint some harlequins with an emphasis on using my airbrush to do some high contrast transitions and stencil work (when they come in), so it's really helpful to see how airbrush work lends itself to a growing eldar force.

Sadly there doesn't seem to be much non-craftworld activity on these boards, so maybe paint up some harlequins so I can see how they do in games ;)
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#82
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Please do. I would really love to see how they look, and how they work for you.

Unfortunately my efforts to get any flavour of Eldar activity going on the forum has been largely unsuccessful. Though I do appreciate the bits of feedback I am receiving, I don’t see a lot of Eldar players ( of any kind) really embracing, or playing the faction here. It would be great see some more playtesting.
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#83
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Since the other eldar forums seem to be pretty dead, could I just post a thread in the craftworld sub?

And any play testing would the a while lol. Im painting these one at a time and only buying more stuff once the previous unit is fully painted. Slow goings for sure.
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#84
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I think that would work. A new thread for sure. Looking forward to it.
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#85
The Blood Raven

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Not to derail the thread, but this board has a long history of no Xenia, so it’s going to take a while for a community to form. I’ve played Thousand Sons, Eldar, and now Tau this edition, but I don’t have a ton to contribute. I do try to promote discussion here, but I fear reddit and social media have staked their claim to online communities.

Please keeping posting as I do enjoy your journey.

#86
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Thanks for reading the content. I'm burning out a bit on eldar. I'm not just finding a lack of Eldar support here though. It seems they've fallen off the wagon since the Ynnari nerf. It's hard to get good feedback almost anywhere. 


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#87
Aothaine

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I say give it a few months. Summer might change a lot things. I also just think that going wraiths put you on the back foot to begin with. Something I need to remind myself of is that you are trying to build for ITC and it might be better to have this as a side project for ITC 2021 or 2022 after some updates. Other factions are certainly strong right now and if being competitive is what you are aiming for you will do better switching over to a different faction. I honestly think that the real limiting factor in your experience is the wraiths though.

 

I've seen "The Spider" on Tabletop Tactics completely mash things up with his shruiken Eldar builds and this was before psychic awakening which made them even better. He is also running the faction that is black and bone colored for the 6+++ which tends to work stupidly well with him, he is known for rolling 6s a lot. 

 

I really don't want to see you give up on your Eldar. They are stunningly beautiful. But shelving them for the time being may not be a bad choice since you're looking to get an army together for the ITC circuit 2020.


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#88
Maxxreloaded

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Prot I’ve read with interest your Aeldari journey.

I’m not a competitive player ... though I do like to perform well and hope to have a chance at success if I play well ...

I typically play shoot and fade as a play style but have towards the end of 2019 been trying to be better in the movement phase and use CC both Aeldari and ..... redacted.....

I’ve found that slow moving cumbersome units I can’t use aggressively and have had success as a counter punch . I’ve often sacrificed a unit of wind riders who were screening my CC unit to a charge from a CC oriented unit . If the wind riders are not charged, its shooting time next turn ! I’ve also fed guardians to pin the enemy CC unit - seems counterintuitive but @55 pts units to hold a dedicated CC unit in place until I’m ready to deal with it.
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#89
SkimaskMohawk

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Thanks for reading the content. I'm burning out a bit on eldar. I'm not just finding a lack of Eldar support here though. It seems they've fallen off the wagon since the Ynnari nerf. It's hard to get good feedback almost anywhere.


Well one of my main opponents does eldar and tau only. I just had a game where I got to face against 3 prisms, reapers, rangers, 3 talks and raiders (with the +1 damage and to wound obsession). Those haywire and blasters are something else; the eldar element basically barely did anything other than be annoying, the DE just pounded my repulsors down.

#90
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Thanks for reading the content. I'm burning out a bit on eldar. I'm not just finding a lack of Eldar support here though. It seems they've fallen off the wagon since the Ynnari nerf. It's hard to get good feedback almost anywhere.


Well one of my main opponents does eldar and tau only. I just had a game where I got to face against 3 prisms, reapers, rangers, 3 talks and raiders (with the +1 damage and to wound obsession). Those haywire and blasters are something else; the eldar element basically barely did anything other than be annoying, the DE just pounded my repulsors down.

This is my issue with the army really. I see a lot of the haywire now in a lot of competitive games, and Dark Eldar are just plain good right now.

Earlier in this thread( I think) I did a batrep on my Wraith list vs Dark Eldar. It was one of the biggest losses I’ve had in 8 th Edition. No joke, and I’ve played against many DE armies including ITC GTs. The DE were basically a hit knife to my Wraith butter. That was such a horrible match up it made me realize I can never take the Wraith concept to a tournament while poison is so powerful. ( plus his firepower was markedly more capable than mine) the blasters are really something too.

I just don’t want to play DE as they are pretty popular here ( especially in competitive play). I don’t know much about Harlequins. I do love the Triumvirate Ynnari sculpts, but also don’t really understand them.

I do see Warlock conclaves ( really big ones) are being milked for all they’re worth now.

I took on Eldar I guess to relive my old glory days with them back in third.
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#91
MasterAO

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I only rarely get to play any games, so my main focus is painting miniatures which is focused on the aeldari. I do read the threads and posts about eldar here, but due to my limited game experience in 8 (I started in 1ed to 2ed, where I got to play a lot), I don't feel that I can give any good advice beyond stereotypical one.


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#92
Slasher956

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I'd like to post more about the craftworlders.... however I have limited game time & with the sisters just being released (my favorite army since 3rd) I'm focused there...


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Dyspraxic & Dyslexic  - So I might not write/explain what I think I have as clearly as intended to.... 

 

I'm confussed... what side of the fence am I on???

 

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#93
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I appreciate the honesty.

 

I've just taken a harder path. I typically don't like to play the common lists, but I do play in a fairly competitive environment.

 

It's different for me with Chaos. I can make.... a half dozen completely different lists and I know how they work. But with Eldar I'm feeling out units, and how they fit and I'm finding if I can win, it's usually just playing extremely tight and getting that extra point in the last turn.

 

That Tau game is a perfect example of that.


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#94
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I appreciate the honesty.

 

I've just taken a harder path. I typically don't like to play the common lists, but I do play in a fairly competitive environment.

 

It's different for me with Chaos. I can make.... a half dozen completely different lists and I know how they work. But with Eldar I'm feeling out units, and how they fit and I'm finding if I can win, it's usually just playing extremely tight and getting that extra point in the last turn.

 

That Tau game is a perfect example of that.

For me, Eldar in any form is an entirely different playstyle to pretty much every other army especially Imperial ones. While most space marine armies are glass cannons, eldar take it to the extreme and there's a definitely a steep learning curve IMO


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#95
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Enjoying this as well so please do keep going! I'm playing around with a similar idea myself as my first tournament level army. A core of Wraiths but with other supporting elements making up for their weaknesses.

 

I was looking at Expert Crafters / Wrath of the Dead (or masterful shots) and something like:

 

A vanguard for the Wraith parts of:

Spritseer

8 Axe Wraiths 

5 cannon Wraiths

5 cannon Wraiths

2 Wave Serpents with Shuriken cannons and Vectored engines

 

Then a Battalion of:

Farseer on jetbike

Warlock on jetbike

3 x 5 Rangers

3 Fire Prisms (could be 3 Hornets instead, saving points, but I worry about killing something big and nasty at range without the Prisms and link fire)

2 Night Spinners

 

So a Wraith / Hover tank theme with some serious punch. Not a Wraithknight fan and couldn't find room for a Wraithseer or Lord(s). Taking the Hornets instead of the Wave Serpents would free up about 150 points so I could add one in. A Wraithseer warlord with the trait that lets him target characters might be fun. Sniper EML.


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#96
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So I wanted to wait a bit before making this post but I’ve thought about shelving this project and then thought I’d take a break from Eldar and re evaluate after LVO 2020. 
 

I’ve thought about how “Eldar” are supposed to be top tier and I really wasn’t seeing that. I listened to some great Eldar players on podcasts. I really checked out how Eldar was doing in a LVO. It isn’t my favourite playstyle but it is a good acid test. 
 

Ive come to realize what I’ve been playing is a far departure from what works, and to top it off I don’t touch the other Aeldari stuff for now. 
 

LVO saw very little success for Eldar with even less for pure craftworlds.  Well known players probably didn’t do as well as expected. Nayden who is an excellent player with Eldar went really far but his list had very few traditional craftworld units. He relied heavily on Harlequins and I think aside from the Shining spears the Harlie bikes and the Ynncarne did a lot of the heavy lifting and that haywire is pretty gross. 
 

Anyway a lot of what I enjoy painting and playing right now is what i would call a B- or C unit. maybe a shorty Wraithlord is closer to a B but the rest of the common wraith family is definitely not there. But as you can see I’ve spent a lot of time painting and playing these units. 
 

I also know my meta is fairly hardcore. My last game against Orks was basically the same as the Ork list that went 6-0 at LVO (except my opponent brought flyers for ‘fun’). 
 

I have to keep it real and accept if I’m doing Eldar this way I’m going to lose a lot. 
 

When I look at adapting a list to a more competitive edge, the first stuff I drop is the wraith units. 
 

So I guess I’m saying I’m going to try to keep the project going. I actually just received my Wraithknight and I know it’s really not considered even mildly competitive but I love the model. I just have to find ways to make such limits work when surrounded by stronger complimentary units.  


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#97
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Good man! I know Eldar aren't at the top of the table at the moment but they can work well. If you want to play to win you need to pick from Marines, Marines or mixed Marines though so anyone who tries to buck the trend is already a winner (or something...).

 

I play Imperial Fists but I don't want to take an optimized list of them to a tournament. Bit like turning up at a school sports day and being proud to win a race.

 

Apart from Wraiths what other units do you like the look of?


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#98
The Blood Raven

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Keep doing what you want to do. Eventually those units will be good again. They already are if you enjoy your games with them whatever somebody else in tourney land does or does not do. 


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#99
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With your mad good painting skill I would love to see you paint the ynnari charachters and then try them out. I have heard they can boost a wraith unit but I don´t know if it´s true.


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#100
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Good man! I know Eldar aren't at the top of the table at the moment but they can work well. If you want to play to win you need to pick from Marines, Marines or mixed Marines though so anyone who tries to buck the trend is already a winner (or something...).

 

I play Imperial Fists but I don't want to take an optimized list of them to a tournament. Bit like turning up at a school sports day and being proud to win a race.

 

Apart from Wraiths what other units do you like the look of?

 

 

Thanks. 

As far as units, the problem is the Wraith units take up a lot of points. Against my better judgement I'm still holding on to the idea of playing the Wraithknight. I just love the model and want to paint one up and actually take it to a tournament. This definitely conflicts with taking Wraithguard/blades in my opinion because points get scarce, and I find you can really only 'protect' / buff a single unit like that.

 

So it leaves little points elsewhere for 'solid' units.

 

I'll post my current list below, but to be honest some of the good stuff that can win a game isn't in my list. Shining spears, Fire Prisms, Reapers are all absent.

 

Other units I like the look of: -Most- vehicles I like the look of. Ironic that some are so old. New Banshees, and Jain Zar! (I tried Banshees though.) The Eldar Triumvirate look amazing to me. A real challenge to paint, especially that Yncarne. (No idea how to use any of these in any really meaningful way. )

 



Keep doing what you want to do. Eventually those units will be good again. They already are if you enjoy your games with them whatever somebody else in tourney land does or does not do. 

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but there does come a time in a competitive environment that you don't want to feel like putting the models into a game is your least favourite part of the hobby. :) Okay, it's not that bad however it's really difficult. Dual/Triple Riptide, Ork Smasha Gun / Triple Shokk Attack green tide, Astra... that stuff is pretty rough to field 'elite' units against.

 

 



With your mad good painting skill I would love to see you paint the ynnari charachters and then try them out. I have heard they can boost a wraith unit but I don´t know if it´s true.

 

That's nice of you to say. I would love to try them but I have difficulty understanding their role in Craftworlds. I don't understand really how they fit. Do they just "co-exist" within craftworld detachments? Or do they break the detachment Craftworld rules? The Psychic power seem extremely Ynnari specific. I'm not sure how to get real mileage out of them. Maybe it is better to use Shining Spears and Harlequins and not a pure Craftworld list with those characters? Again, it's kind of completely uncharted territory for me. But yes, I'd love to paint/ use the models... if they work.

 

Here is the current 'fun' list. It performs okay, but has super little room for error. One bad psychic phase and it starts to fall down very quickly and model count/footprint disappears.

 

 
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [85 PL, 1,521pts] ++
 
+ No Force Org Slot +
 
Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Wrath of the Dead
 
The Path of War
 
+ HQ +
 
Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 105pts]: 4: Fate's Messenger, Craftworlds Warlord, Laser Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shimmerplume of Achillrial
 
Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 137pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Doom, 3. Fortune, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult
 
Spiritseer [3 PL, 55pts]: 5. Focus Will, 5. Quicken/Restrain, Shuriken Pistol
 
Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 62pts]: 3. Ghostwalk, 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade
 
+ Troops +
 
Guardian Defenders [5 PL, 95pts]: 10x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Shuriken Cannon
 
Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger
 
Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger
 
+ Elites +
 
Wraithblades [10 PL, 175pts]: Ghostaxe and Forceshield, 5x Wraithblade
 
+ Heavy Support +
 
Night Spinner [8 PL, 117pts]: Crystal Targeting Matrix, Twin Shuriken Catapult
 
Wraithlord [8 PL, 120pts]: 2x Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Catapult, Shuriken Catapult
 
+ Flyer +
 
Crimson Hunter Exarch [9 PL, 176pts]: Two Starcannons
. Exarch Power: Marksman's Eye
 
Hemlock Wraithfighter [10 PL, 210pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, Spirit Stones
 
+ Dedicated Transport +
 
Wave Serpent [9 PL, 149pts]: Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Vectored Engines
 
++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [9 PL, 105pts] ++
 
+ Heavy Support +
 
Support Weapons [9 PL, 105pts]
. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon
. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon
. Support Weapon: Vibro Cannon
 
++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [27 PL, 374pts] ++
 
+ No Force Org Slot +
 
Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masters of Concealment
 
+ Lord of War +
 
Wraithknight [27 PL, 374pts]: Scatter Laser, Scatter Laser, Suncannon and Scattershield
 
++ Total: [121 PL, 2,000pts] ++
 
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