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Psychic Awakening: The Ritual of the Damned

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#526
Ahzek451

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So this is more an observation and not intended to be a complaint, just like following the codex trends. But..

The most recent big changes has been the addition of combat doctrines for armies that are "pure". Marines got a new codex and received them in addition to buffed and modified chapter traits. The other more recent army release received the same. Sisters of battle. They have there respective Orders in addition, you get a bonus for having a "pure" army.

It is assumed the chaos codex was printed before this new trend. However, neither the legion traits changed nor was there any kind of "pure" bonus in the psychic awakening book "faith and fury". Did chaos miss the boat again? Many chaos fans wondered what was going on. But then both the blood angels and dark angels received the same treatment. Thousand sons did not. We got some nifty stuff in the same level as the faith and fury chaos legions, but our trait remanded the same and there is no bonus for a "pure" list. I am starting to think that this is GW's plan. To reward imperial armies for being "pure" and letting chaos continue to soup as they please due to not having a "pure" option(so far). What do you guys thing? Did we miss the boat again? Is this forever going to be a trend? Is it because it's not a new codex, and its just a suppliment? If that is the case, why did blood and dark angels get the "pure" bonus?

Or is it a simple case of...YAY imperium, screw chaos and xenos. I kid, I kid...kinda.

On a tactics side note, magnus might be more viable. With all these redeployment shenanigans, there are a lot more distractions to take firepower away from big red.

Edited by Ahzek451, 19 January 2020 - 12:58 AM.

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#527
Heliomanes

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Cult of magic supreme command detachment looks pretty good, and cult of duplexity looks like a fun way to run rubricae and even scarab occult. Not sure if the latter is competitive though, but I have been looking for an excuse to field them. Not sure what you see in cult of time though. I just see an ok spell that will rarely function. Will be more than happy if someone can sell me on it though.

Very disappointed that we do not get a faction only bonus, and seem to be designed to function in "chaos soup". Seems like a desperate way to differentiate chaos from imperium.



#528
Raven1

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Not that stellar, as its just 1 hit/wound/damage roll for each unit. not even 1 of each.

Can never get 2++, the limit is 3++ on the spell. (and probably the strat too)

The last thing is correct. though how often will it do more than a 2CP strat anyway?


I think 3 dual melta knights would absolutely disagree with you, or twin c-beam/Las cannon contemptors for that matter.

Absolutely can...right now...the strat and psychic buff from 5++ to a max of 3++ then All is Dust gives a plus one to the roll making it a 2++

That you might be right who would want strategems that cost nothing especially in the late game when CP us running low. /sarcasm

The first and last point is basically free CP since you arent spending CP on the re-roll strat and on the second point on anything. obviously 2+ CP stats are best but free is free.

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#529
Zodd1888

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Question on the Magister WL trait. Could I use that on Magnus to take a Cult WL trait?
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#530
Skerr

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Cult of Time is top notch for me. It's not just the spell that is great the WLT and Relic are very strong.

The WLT and spell synergize on 9's giving you both d3 models at full wounds and another spell to cast!

The relic brings you back to life!

What's great is there seems to be a lot here for everyone to pick from even of 2 to 3 rise to the top.

Second for me is looking like Cult of Duplicity after CoT. Then if I have the points Cult of Magic 3rd for SCD.

Cult of Mutation while not super strong looks like novel fun for an Exalted Sorcerer taking both the WLT and Relic. Put him in patrol detachment with a unit of Tzangoors and some Chaos Spawn. Cheap CC focused with body guards. Powers not bad either. The Relic is Exalteds only so at least this one seems to encourage taking an Exalted.

Edited by Skerr, 19 January 2020 - 03:33 AM.


#531
Archaeinox

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Question on the Magister WL trait. Could I use that on Magnus to take a Cult WL trait?

 

 

I think it depends on wording but if it just says let a character get a trait, Magnus and Ahriman will be locked to traits.


Edited by Archaeinox, 19 January 2020 - 04:19 AM.

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#532
BoomWolf

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Not that stellar, as its just 1 hit/wound/damage roll for each unit. not even 1 of each.

Can never get 2++, the limit is 3++ on the spell. (and probably the strat too)

The last thing is correct. though how often will it do more than a 2CP strat anyway?

I think 3 dual melta knights would absolutely disagree with you, or twin c-beam/Las cannon contemptors for that matter.

Absolutely can...right now...the strat and psychic buff from 5++ to a max of 3++ then All is Dust gives a plus one to the roll making it a 2++

That you might be right who would want strategems that cost nothing especially in the late game when CP us running low. /sarcasm

The first and last point is basically free CP since you arent spending CP on the re-roll strat and on the second point on anything. obviously 2+ CP stats are best but free is free.

I'm not saying it's not great (in fact I did say it's freaking amazing, and likely the best relic in the book if not for the fact mono TS don't gain much), but it's not broken, and can be left as is.

It appears I was wrong about how all is dust is worded and it actually does work to an effective 2++,yiekes.

And the "free stratagem" isn't free, it costs a relic slot,and once per turn.
Ergo, it's a wierd CP generator relic. If you can't reliably find yourself using it for at least a 2 CP stratagem, it just does not compete with the helm or book.
And we don't have that many high CP strats.

#533
Skerr

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All is Dust adds 1 to the roll so if you roll 2 it becomes 3.

#534
deTox

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Not sure what you see in cult of time though. I just see an ok spell that will rarely function. Will be more than happy if someone can sell me on it though.

Completely agree with the feeling about the Cult of Time, breaking it down what I see is: an alright spell, but that will be situational as the unit must survive for it to be used (and as playing Necrons thought me this hardly happens, but yeah we're tougher then Necrons), and unless you roll 9+ the effect is not even that strong, really only good on SoTs, but netherless the spell is good.
The Warlord trait, this I find good on paper but totally unnecessary in game, you're getting a chance to cast an extra spell, when do you really need an extra spell? I find myself always fielding enough psyches to cast all the spells I need so the bonus is negligible, I value much more a +1 to cast (High Magister) to increase the odds of a key power to go off
Then the relic, this again sounds good on paper, when you die you get ressed at the end of the phase, but when does your warlord really die? The warlord should be kept back to and would not die at any time soon in the game, only case for an dead warlord before turn 3/4 would be snipers, but you can make your warlord a DPoT and they are too tough to be sniped down, also you get ressed at the end of the phase, this is good if you die in combat as it gives you another turn of the warlord alive, but would be pretty bad if you die in the shooting phase, if they are shooting you means your warlord is the closest model, you ress with D3 wounds and then they charge you immediately after and you die again which makes for a MEH relic, overall not on the same level of say DMC, Helm, Capricious Crest, the new CP Tome and the relic that gives +1 to cast

Edited by deTox, 19 January 2020 - 08:48 AM.


#535
BoomWolf

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The time relic is used to be highly aggressive with a prince, not to protect a back line supporter.

Most armies struggle to deal with a prince on two separate phases, rezzing him at the end of phase gives a decent shot at getting another turn of murdering
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#536
Skerr

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I know Cult of Magic is a clear front runner and I will run it when I have a SCD, which is only around 2000 pt games, though as great as it is a couple of the other cults appeal to me more so likely will be third.

My buddies think 1k sons are OP as it is (MW output) so more MW will put a bad taste in their mouth. Not a big deal, I do really well against them. Were not a competitive group and they dont stalk forums and watch battle reports on their army like I do so I can still be competitive. Instead I go for and enjoy the shenanigans rules.

After some xp and hearing back from other 1k sons players here and elsewhere i may change my mind. Things often look good on paper and in application don't go as expected.

Edited by Skerr, 19 January 2020 - 05:22 PM.

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#537
Archaeinox

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After some xp and hearing back from other 1k sons players here and elsewhere i may change my mind. Things often look good on paper and in application don't go as expected.

 

Things often look good on paper and in application don't go as expected.

 

 as expected.

 

 

Fixed that for you. Don't stray from the ninefold path.


"You're a wizard, Ahri"

"Discgoat for Harambe"


#538
Prot

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Skerr, what do you mean you changed your mind? About what exactly?

 

I agree the cults have some good variety. I'll give them that. 

 

The more I look at it, the more utility I see between the various cults, though I still think Magic is the one for the strongest impact in a competitive environment. As I kept repeating myself, I wanted less tool box stuff and more damage and there it is. 

 

You guys who are not playing competitive have to understand that marines are so ugly right now, you have to know what it's like to play against an Iron Hands Astraeus, or character dread army, or even aggressive White Scars, and character killing, high pressure Raven Guard.

 

Cult of Magic gives you more mortal wounds. You can't minimize, or half that damage. Mortal Wounds are unique. We aren't bringing Repulsors with feel no pain. Our anti super heavy / anti deathstar weapon is mortal wounds.  

 

Thousand Sons will still suffer to heavy anti character armies. I played a game last night taking sniper rounds after sniper rounds (and this wasn't Raven Guard.) I don't know if you guys have played against -any- Space Marines with Stalker bolters but with the use of a strat, literally non of your characters is safe. 

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Anyway I'm very happy with the overall feel of the release. I think this gives all of us, no matter how competitive/casual, soup or no soup player we are, a very healthy selection of 'styles' to go with our armies. 

 

Second biggest thing for us is the renewel of Scarab Occult and Rubrics in a very... anti-chaos marine era.  

 

Thirdly I am big on the fact we still can soup if we wish. Personally I haven't picked up a Daemon detachment since 7th (and a time span I was trying to resurrect my Daemonkin!) BUT I am a huge fan of Chaos Knights. I don't know why, just love the feel of them WITH Thousand Sons. Psychic Might and Hulking Machines.. lotsa fun.


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#539
Skerr

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Skerr, what do you mean you changed your mind? About what exactly?

You guys who are not playing competitive have to understand that marines are so ugly right now, you have to know what it's like to play against an Iron Hands Astraeu...

What I meant is I may change my mind in the future about what cults I choose after some game experience and hearing the experiences of others here and elsewhere.

I get it Dmg output is neccessary for very competitive games and Cult of Magic looks great for that, it's great we got it. For the competitive folks here I am super happy for yall (us) and me explaining why Cult of Time and Duplicity are my current path is not meant to overlook or dismiss the Cult of Magic, if it came across that way.

My environment is not competitive so I can afford to go more fluffy which is why Cult of Time and Duplicity suit my style, lists and competitive scene. Right now more utility and less dmg output I can afford and is a more fun playstyle for me. Though I might change my mind on cults. I might be moving to a new state soon and already checked out a game shop I would likely play at so I will probably need Cult of Magic when that happens.

That's what is great about these cults is we are not shoehorned into one play style and it opens lots of possibilities for various matched play, narrative etc... games and environments.

Edited by Skerr, 19 January 2020 - 05:25 PM.

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#540
Ahzek451

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Indeed. This group def has a split between those involved in a casual setting vs. Competative. I wish mine was more casual, but I too have the joy of fighting a copy of the top Tau drone list, iron hands flyer spam and character killing bolts, white scars speed, and a remnant of eldar flyer spam. Against all this, with the new supplement it is possible to fight these armies with skill, but it is certainly an uphill battle still. There is a clear difference between space marines vs. Chaos overall as far as power level. Example: all the cool buffs and traits shared by supporting units on vehicles. I think chaos marines are literally the only armies left that dont have this.

Edited by Ahzek451, 19 January 2020 - 04:47 PM.

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#541
Sawtooth

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I'm just so relieved that I can still use my Tzeentch Daemons without breaking anything. As far as cults, I'm still digesting it all....but I can totally see myself adding a third supreme command detachment for more sorcery and a second cult.

Oddly I feel the stratagems are really the best part of all this, which I wasn't expecting at all. But I'll take it.


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#542
deTox

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Also for these competitive games I think Duplicity is the second candidate to be a good slot in if you're bringing a TS battalion, mostly because it facilitates a "play the mission" approach when you find yourself loosing the killing part of the game, both in ITC and CA missions objectives tend to be worth a lot and Rubrics are great objective holders.
Also using the Duplicity spell on a unit in combat does not make it count as fallen back so it can shoot afterwards, which pairs up well with freeing up tanks/dreads(which before you had no reason whatsoever to take in a TS detachment) that got pinned down and still get them to shoot, also if you're feeling spicy you can teleporta a buffed up Claw/Grav-Flux Leviathan Dread into enemie lines turn 1, he'll die but he's also a tough nut to crack and can inflict some serious pain before going out in a blaze

Edited by deTox, 19 January 2020 - 05:33 PM.


#543
BoomWolf

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Ok, here is a wierd thing somebody pointed out to me

 

The new stratagems? target rubircs. not thousand sons rubrics.

 

Nothing stops us using allied IW/AL rubrics and throwing the stratagems at them.

Do we want to? probably not. but we CAN.



#544
Zodd1888

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Just watched Tabletop Tactics VoxCast and they themselves had been fairly underwhelmed.

We get chances to do a power one time (rule of one), WL and Relics, and one special ability (often once per game).

It's definitely not what we're seeing for everyone else, and this still applies to all of Chaos (CSM, Daemons, and even DG). Hopefully that just means we should have more to look forward to in the future, and in the meantime we've got a few nice things to play with.

#545
Skerr

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I don't think they reviewed the stratagems which is a big part of RotD for us. I did skip around in just the 1k sons bit and may have missed it though. TTs seemed they were hoping for army wide buffs, mechanics or doctrines equivalents to compete with marines.

Edited by Skerr, 19 January 2020 - 06:27 PM.


#546
Ahzek451

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I honestly hate to complain, these boons are great. But it's hard not to feel a little left behind when our trait is arguably just ok, but I think that stems on the fact it only applies to a small portion of the army. GW could give us army wide trait..but it does no good unless we have a secondary affect. Hell..just for some perspective, iron hands have 3 really good affects that apply to everyone.

Bottom line, we dont have an army wide trait and zero pure army doctrine. When everyone else has from psychic awakening (those featured so far minus our chaos legion brothers). This is what makes receiving these rules bittersweet. Because it feels like the cults should have been in the codex from the start.

Edited by Ahzek451, 19 January 2020 - 06:40 PM.

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#547
Archaeinox

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We get chances to do a power one time (rule of one), WL and Relics, and one special ability (often once per game).

 

This is a huge issue at 2000pt games and bigger.

 

I believe that in general, and of course this depends on what you are up against in your area, these rules are very appropriate for around 1500pt games where we get plenty of mileage out of using each power only once. 2 battalion lists would be lots of fun at 1500 i suspect.

 

I have lost interest in playing huge games (3k, 4k) because of the rule of 1.


Edited by Archaeinox, 19 January 2020 - 06:46 PM.

"You're a wizard, Ahri"

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#548
Raven1

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I think what we got is pretty good, but I'll have to wait to get my hands on the book and get a few practice games.

Comparing to New Space Marines is just going to look like we are terrible regardless. They are the first codex/really the only codex to receive a rewrite. No other faction has that and space marines will remain supreme for the time being.
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#549
The Blood Raven

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Can the Cult of Scheming relic be used to pay the 3cp cost for Relics of the Thousand Sons?



#550
Paturabo

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Can the Cult of Scheming relic be used to pay the 3cp cost for Relics of the Thousand Sons?


I don't think it can. The Relics stratagem is used before the game begins while 'Cha'qi'thl's Theorem' requires the model equipped with it to be on the battlefield.




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