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Psychic Awakening: The Ritual of the Damned

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#601
Hathor42

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Yeah greyknights made out much much better then we did. They're new tides effect the whole army mostly where as ours only effect one unit a turn. If they would have  given us the ability to cast the same cult power twice a turn or something like that it would have been much better. 


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#602
Ahzek451

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I also believe this, I honestly thought before seeing the pages myself, that the new cult powers being distributed as they were...were going to be able cast more than 1 a turn. I dont think it would be game breaking to do so.

We received a lot, but it is deceptive(nice one GW/Tzeentch) and with a retrospective 2nd look, the limitations really renders down an average army to: 1-2 new powers, a 1-2 relics/warlord traits, and a small handful of useful/situational strats. But if you look at it, besides cabaliatic focus and VOTLW, any nee strats would have been better than what was presented in the codex. So after a couple games and analysis of all this, this supplement feels different for us because a lot of this stuff should have been in the codex to begin with as apposed to what everyone else got, receiving some needed adjustments and new toys to play with.

#603
SirVulkan

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So I played two games.

 

I did two quick batreps on my blog using Magic, Cult of Time, and Duplicity in those two games.

 

 

Game 1 https://prot40k.blog...-the-new-rules/

Game 2 https://prot40k.blog...-the-new-rules/

 

In short, I won't 'spoil' the results, however a few early observations.

 

- It does feel more labour intensive. Knowing an extra power within a detachment is nice, but it's hard to remember if I used it in a certain detachment or not, and who belongs to that detachment.

- further to that. Might I suggest it is dumb to have this be a detachment based restriction... in fact I hate it. This means I have to remember which Rubric is in which detachment, etc, etc. It just feels clunky and without real merit. 

- I think there's really only 1 winner here. I'll keep testing, but largely the tools given here are nothing like the power bump of Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Chaos Legions, and especially Eldar. It's frustrating in comparison. However in a fishbowl, this is fun stuff. Truly.

- Perfidious Tome. I was wrong. This fun, and the potential is large than the Helm of the Third eye. Although that potential will often not be fulfilled, when it is, it is fun.

- A big one for me... the cost of these powers is too high for Thousand Sons. The Eldar got incredible replacements for Smite (replacing baby smite on their units is a nobrainer) Their powers work on a wide variety of targets, and are easier to cast. Keep in mind they have Ghost Helm access, and aside from one character, it's actually costly for us to get +1 to cast.

 

 

Thanks for the write up.  Your first game didnt seem like a good test of Time.  It seemed like a steam roll.  Your second game seemed like you may have not focus fired enough on units.  I play against Necron a lot.  Its important to kill a unit dead so maybe I dont know the details of the moment but it seems like a good idea to kill the destroyers and ignore the immortals.  

 

Also I would agree with most people that you use Time on Scarabs mainly.  I plan on doing 1 BAT with Time, 1 BAT with Duplicity, and a patrol of Magic.  I think Duplicity is great for multiple reasons.  I am going to try plopping a leviathan in their face turn one as well as SOT and a squad or rubrics if I can get turn 1.  You could swap out the patrol of Magic with Magnus or a Spearhead of Prophecy.  

 

I think Fusilade is fine.  Its 1 cp. Its not something to design a list around but if you use it on SoT's it will wreck stuff.  They simply need to be supported.  That second game you had looked like an absolute Dice FAIL for you.



#604
Prot

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Thanks for the write up.  Your first game didnt seem like a good test of Time.  It seemed like a steam roll.  Your second game seemed like you may have not focus fired enough on units.  I play against Necron a lot.  Its important to kill a unit dead so maybe I dont know the details of the moment but it seems like a good idea to kill the destroyers and ignore the immortals.  

 

Also I would agree with most people that you use Time on Scarabs mainly.  I plan on doing 1 BAT with Time, 1 BAT with Duplicity, and a patrol of Magic.  I think Duplicity is great for multiple reasons.  I am going to try plopping a leviathan in their face turn one as well as SOT and a squad or rubrics if I can get turn 1.  You could swap out the patrol of Magic with Magnus or a Spearhead of Prophecy.  

 

I think Fusilade is fine.  Its 1 cp. Its not something to design a list around but if you use it on SoT's it will wreck stuff.  They simply need to be supported.  That second game you had looked like an absolute Dice FAIL for you.

 

 

Thanks for reading it. I'd agree it the first game wasn't a great test of time. I have another game tonight that I will be testing it against a different opponent.

 

I also play Necrons quite a bit. I'd definitely put my opponent's list in the top percentile of competitive necrons. Where I think things went sideways is rolling an ungodly amount of shots and believing that it would kill them and it simply did not. The resulting turn, he had 1 Destroyer with 1 wound left. That turned into 5 destroyers and I knew it was over at that moment. 

 

I agree Fusilade is fine. I am referring to some people's original reaction that it would be amazing... it's good, but not easy to get off. I think when people play their games they'll realize it's not easy to sit on a spot very often. It's not as powerful as Marine's Rapid Fire used by some armies. I'd recommend not comparing this to Ultra's or Imperial fists. It's 'good' though.

 

I like to try everything out. At times at the cost of not doing it to 100% efficiency. I'm on my 5-6th game heading into this weekend which I have 2 more scheduled. each list is a bit different against (mostly) different opponents.

 

Right now I'm going back to Magnus. I've noticed a list building psychological affect this supplement has had on me: I'm using WAY more Scarabs and Rubrics. As a result my straight up killing power has taken a nose dive. So the psychic tests MUST go off. I'm not leveling competitive armies with bolterfire, it's going to have to come from close combat and/or psychic damage. 

 

I think a Leviathan is a great idea. One of my games I paired a Butcher cannon Decimator with my newer twin double lascannon Contemptor. It really didn't do a lot but that could have been a bad match up. For now I'm pulling the dreads out of the list again because I want to try three Thousand Sons detachments again. 


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#605
SirVulkan

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Ya lascannons against Necrons never worked for me either.  Let us know how your other game goes.  I do believe that all of these new tricks could lead to taking pressure off of Magnus first turn and he should be able to heal 2d3 wounds a turn now.  This could give him the edge he needs to make a difference again.



#606
Prot

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Ya lascannons against Necrons never worked for me either.  Let us know how your other game goes.  I do believe that all of these new tricks could lead to taking pressure off of Magnus first turn and he should be able to heal 2d3 wounds a turn now.  This could give him the edge he needs to make a difference again.

that’s exactly what I’m thinking. If he doesn’t die T1 as per the norm, he will be getting 2D3 wounds back. With the new tricks (especially Duplicity) there’s this feeling of being able to put immediate pressure on your opponent which as you say may take some heat off the big man!


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#607
Archaeinox

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OOF. This abomination is what I get when I try to cherry pick.

 

Apologies for the trash cellphone pic and the crappy paint table but here's something I was messing around with for 1500pts just to dive in and learn the cults. 

 

84017245 2496625413925188 8231497275973566464 N

 

Left: Cult of Time Patrol Detachment (Ahriman, 10 Scarabs, 5 Rubrics).

 

Mid: Cult of Duplicity Battalion (Sorc, Sorc, 20 Rubrics, 5 Rubrics, 5 Rubrics)- One of these guys will be Duplicitious Tactician, the other will carry the Perfidious Tome. 

 

Right: Cult of Change Patrol (Sorc, 5 Rubrics)- Sorc has Capricious Crest. Maybe he'll start on the table, maybe he'll go in the Webway with Scarabs to try to get the most out of their Time Flux cast. Who knows!

 

It might be silly but it's whatever. I need to just force myself to learn how to mentally picture different detachments and I guess this is the best way for hopping into cold unfamiliar water.. Will probably just stick to Duplicity battalion in the end for this initial 1st game.


Edited by Archaeinox, 22 January 2020 - 10:20 PM.

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#608
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It looks really good. I wish there was some better pics.

 

I think at the very least you could swing two detachments that really get to flex some of the new Cults. 


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#609
Archaeinox

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Ill make sure to do a pic batrep by Sat evening, its been a while

Edited by Archaeinox, 23 January 2020 - 12:42 AM.

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"You're a wizard, Ahri"

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#610
Dolchiate Remembrancer

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So Arch, your only tank busting is in the Psychic phase?

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#611
Archaeinox

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Although he's using the new GK rules in PA: IV, he's leaving the Dreadknights and dreadnoughts at home.. So I will leave the Killshot predators at home.

 

Which brings up a good point- I think a spearhead of Change to get a sorcerer with Capricious Crest is an option for the usual 2k lists.. that damn thing seems good from reports I hear.


Edited by Archaeinox, 23 January 2020 - 02:13 AM.

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"You're a wizard, Ahri"

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#612
Prot

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That's an interesting idea. He doesn't quite replace the aura of Magnus of course, but having that ability to flip a 1 into a 6 is good. The range is really too short to be used against your opponent until (if?) late game.

 

I haven't seen it used yet. 


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#613
SirVulkan

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Here is a good write up on the Crest

https://www.goonhamm...-of-the-damned/



#614
Archaeinox

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Wow.. yeah. 


"You're a wizard, Ahri"

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#615
Prot

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Yea again, trying to fit all these cults in to have a really decent cumulative effect is hard.

 

The way they've developed these 'cults' per detachment (I know I keep harping on this, but this is another good example why) it means a Relic is typically going to give you better mileage than a power.

 

The relics mix with most things, and the Powers are Cult specific.Multi unit Buff relics like this are rare for us. 


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#616
SirVulkan

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It does making lists frustrating.  I find I should always bring 3 detachments.  Or 2 detachments and Magnus.  Its the only way to get mileage out of this update.  I also find that most of these warlord traits are not auras...that's annoying.  But ill take what I can get



#617
Archaeinox

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if we have to choose a cult just for power i think duplicity will win. having each unit be able to just zip away from or to something is just.. nice. 

 

but yes i think ill have to buckle down and just focus on a relic or two.


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#618
Skerr

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It would be great if Exalted got some cool way of getting cheaper relics.

An outrider detachment of spawn with an exalted on disc in Cult of Mutation would be a fun wild card. But to many other releics out there to spend on a shoehorn boost for the Exalted.

#619
Sonoftherubric21

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Exalted have some decent Melee potential for a couple of certain builds, but I agree its a big opportunity cost. Especially so when we need more consistency in casting. 



#620
Heliomanes

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Agreed. A lot of the fun relics and warlord traits will have to be chosen instead of one of the big ones that buff the effectiveness of the force as a whole. In an ideal world we'd have the big army buffs as a solo faction bonus, and had the fun traits and relics to mess around with a bit more freely as a cherry on top. But it is what it is.



#621
Guzzlrr

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Ok so had a battle,

 

In the end didnt play against my Crimson Fist friend i ended up against my My Imperial Fist Friend. 2500. on the nose son. Or sonette

 

took extra 2 relics Dark matter, magic +1 to cast and Tome (never using that again)

 

Supreme CD - Cult of magic

DP w/ wings -warlord

EX Sorcerer on disk

Ahriman on disk

 

Magnus the Red

 

Battalion

 

Sorcerer

EX Sorcerer

Ex Sorcerer

 

Rubric (12)

Rubric (10)

Rubric (10)

Rubric (10)

Rubric (10)

 

Terminator

Terminator

 

 

My Friend had a Brigade

3 thunderfire cannons

A leviathan dread with the 24" outch cannons

2 squads of Inceptors ? the jump dual heavy bolters

Land Raider redeemer

terminators

and a mix of troops intercessors and mini marines

autocannon jump dudes

 

TLDR summary :  Magic is meh, Hate the tome (gave my friend 4 cp) love Duplicity was winning until T5 thing swung a bit T5 and i had went from a 5 point lead to a 2 point loss

 

started off well gave my friend a cp

 

Friend had a well dug in Fare base, i wouldn't be able to dig out well entrenched thunderfire cannons there was enough space for my Terminators to sneak in T2 so i planned to at least hold up some cannons then magnus reduced his Warlord to 2 wounds then with combination with my squads smited the land raider and shot his terminators to death magnus destroyed a 10 man sqd of intercessors

 

Risen a squad half way up the board, dark mattered another and Used the Duplicity power to get 3 squads in Rapid Fire range T1 was good fun also help establish Board control

 

My turn 1 was fairly decent. turn two the hurt began

 

he shot everything at magnus. everything murdered him, the worst shots he took was auto hitting bolt guns and my saves weren't great

 

T2 i was able to tie up his firebase with my terminators for 2 turns which saved my bacon a bit allowed me to establish a decent lead

 

T4 he began shooting back, i had no answer to his Leviathan and his thunder cannons  as i was struggling to get close enough due to fail casts etc 

 

T 5 i was able to Jump his leviathan with my remaining Characters Ahriman blew the beast from the table with a smite followed by a quick power change to tzeench firestorm (which took 5 wounds on its own) was an epic moment but i knew it would cost me.

 

I had already lost my warlord, he took King slayer then managed to close the gap in lead as he murdered my sorcerers in retaliation for his dead leviathan killed 3 of my Sorcerers leaving me with one and one squad, at this point i was trying to gain as many points to keep my lead and hopefully get line breaker but failed both in T6 my friend cleaning house T5 & 6 and getting line breaker while only really trying to table me,

 

despite that was a Fun game enjoyed using the new stuff definitely thinking of dropping Magic (unless A high magister with certian a relic from the Cult of magic is a thing) but really enjoyed the duplicity power allowed me to really control the board most of the game

 

 


Edited by Guzzlrr, 24 January 2020 - 07:25 PM.

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#622
Heliomanes

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vRD8CNj.jpg

Finally got the book and tried out this army against a non-optimised Grey Knights force today. ITC missions, with secondaries and so on.

I used this:


Duplicity batallion:

Sorcerer, flame pistol - Duplicity warlord trait (redeploy)
Sorcerer, flame pistol

20 rubricae, flame pistol and gatlings
21 Tzaangors, brayhorn
10 cultists

9 Scarab Occult Terminators
Leviathan dread, Claw and butcher cannon

Cult of magic supreme command

Ahriman on disc
Daemon prince w wings and claws (Cult of magic warlord trait and relic)
Sorcerer in terminator armor, familliar

Cult of change patrol

Exalted sorcerer on disc, flame pistol (Crest relic from cult of change).
10 cultists

My opponent went with this list. Again, not optimised at all, but fun and had a lot of options and punch with the new rules. Sorry for the battlescribe formatting, I just don't have the energy to rewrite it at the moment.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [93 PL, 1,386pts] ++

+ HQ +

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [14 PL, 224pts]: Dreadfist, Dreadknight teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [14 PL, 224pts]: Dreadfist, Dreadknight teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword

+ Troops +

Strike Squad [7 PL, 86pts]
. Grey Knight (Falchions): 2x Nemesis Falchion, Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Halberd): Nemesis Force Halberd, Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Sword): Nemesis Force Sword, Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight (Warding Stave): Nemesis Warding Stave, Storm Bolter
. Grey Knight Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Warding Stave: Nemesis Warding Stave

Terminator Squad [13 PL, 189pts]
. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. Terminator (Daemon Hammer): Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter
. Terminator (Halberd): Nemesis Force Halberd, Storm Bolter
. Terminator (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Sword: Nemesis Force Sword
. Terminator (Warding Stave): Nemesis Warding Stave, Storm Bolter

Terminator Squad [13 PL, 190pts]
. Grey Knight Terminator Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. Terminator (Daemon Hammer): Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter
. Terminator (Falchions): 2x Nemesis Falchion, Storm Bolter
. Terminator (Halberd): Nemesis Force Halberd, Storm Bolter
. Terminator (Psilencer): Psilencer (Terminator)
. . Nemesis Force Sword: Nemesis Force Sword

+ Heavy Support +

Land Raider Redeemer [18 PL, 298pts]: 2x Flamestorm Cannon, Multi-melta, Storm Bolter, Twin Assault Cannon

Purgation Squad [14 PL, 175pts]
. Purgator (Halberd): Nemesis Force Halberd, Storm Bolter
. 4x Purgator (Psilencer): 4x Psilencer
. 3x Purgator (Sword): 3x Nemesis Force Sword, 3x Storm Bolter
. Purgator (Warding Stave): Nemesis Warding Stave, Storm Bolter
. Purgator Justicar: Storm bolter
. . Nemesis Falchion: 2x Nemesis Falchion

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [47 PL, 608pts] ++

+ HQ +

Grand Master [10 PL, 145pts]: Storm Bolter
. Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

Grey Knight Chaplain [8 PL, 107pts]: Storm bolter

+ Elites +

Apothecary [5 PL, 88pts]
. Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

Apothecary [5 PL, 88pts]
. Nemesis Daemon Hammer: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

Paladin Squad [19 PL, 180pts]
. 3x Paladin (Falchions): 6x Nemesis Falchion, 3x Storm Bolter
. Paragon: Storm Bolter
. . Nemesis Falchion: 2x Nemesis Falchion

 

 

 

 

The mission had a single objective in the centre, and one in each direction from there, for a total of 5. I deployed my army first, in its entirety, and then he seized on me...

Scarab Occult, Termie sorc and Tzaangors were in deep strike reserves, and I had infiltrated the blob of Rubricae to take control of the central objective and give a big footprint that could hide my characters. I could redeploy them back with the Duplicity warlord trait, but after some thought I decided to try to outlive his first turn there instead. Still, it was fun to have the option to redeploy even if I decided against it this time around.

He homed in and opened fire on the rubric blob, but could not take them all down in time. My first turn I had to huddle up and buff the survivors as much as I possibly could, and distracted his dreadknights with the leviathan. Sorcerers went nuts with smites and buffs - and then we crossed our fingers and hoped.

His turn 2 he took out the cultist objective grabbers and finally killed the last rubric, but had not enough shooting left to dent the character blob. And then the Scarab occult and tzaangors teleported in and made a defensive perimeter. They did remarkably little damage, but due to their resilience he just could not harm the characters enough to make much of a dent in my mortal wound output. By the end of turn 3 I had half my scarabs, most of my characters, and a few stragglers from the tzaangor unit remaining. On his end he had a half dead dreadknight and an apothecary remaining, and conceded when turn 4 should have started. Victory to the Thousand Sons.



Again, this was not a true test by a long shot. And our armies were really interesting, as we are counterparts in so many ways. We shut down each other's spells left and right, and it was impossible to gamble that a cast of warp time, weaver or a smite would go off. Same for him.

The absolute winners were the Rubrics, the Scarab occult, the Cult of Magic detachment, and the Crest. They work so well together.
The worst units were the cultists and the leviathan. Cultists just give away secondary points, and the leviathan costs so much and does so little. Especially since we can't even heal him due to the hellforge rules. If I had the models I would get more big rubric squads and focus on teleporting them around to shield our deadly character blobs.
Scarab occult did great, but against armies with more shooting I need them on the table immediately to help shield our fragile characters. I got lucky and the Rubricae just managed to hold on enough for backup to arrive this time around, but it was a gamble even against this list. Tempted to try to make room for the black matter crystal, so I can start them on the table and have a guaranteed turn 1 deep strike for them, but I will try doing this in the future with the duplicity spell, even if it is a bit of a gamble. The Cult of Magic prince and the Crest worked so well together that I am reluctant to remove these two relics.

 



#623
JamesI

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The problem is the book requires that your warlord be part of a cult to use a relic of that cult.  We can't take multiple relics from Psychic Awakening.


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#624
Archaeinox

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well heck. 


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#625
Heliomanes

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The problem is the book requires that your warlord be part of a cult to use a relic of that cult.  We can't take multiple relics from Psychic Awakening.

Nice catch. I have completely missed this point. This means that I (and most other multi-detachment Ksons lists,, I would guess) will have to reshuffle our lists more than a little.

Tempted to go for a High Magister with the Crest as warlord, and get the Cult of Magic warlord trait via the magister stratagem. Means giving up on the +1 to cast relic, but I might get something else into the list instead, like the black matter crystal. How will the rest of you adapt?






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