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Psychic Awakening: The Ritual of the Damned

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#626
Archaeinox

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I'm not quite sure, to be honest. I have lots of ideas but no real cohesion to them. I'm a little stunned by the way they implemented this and it's taking the fun out of list-making for me, probably because it takes me a while to wrap my head around new things.

 

I'm trying to focus on being happy with the 7 new stratagems because I think their inclusion is the real winner in this book, and I'm trying to view the cults as icing on the cake 


Edited by Archaeinox, 26 January 2020 - 01:53 AM.

"You're a wizard, Ahri"

"Discgoat for Harambe"


#627
JamesI

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It took me some time to get passed the limitation. I really wanted a few of the relics, and I could see trying several lists to test all the relics and warlord traits I want to try.

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#628
GreenPlasma

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I think the sheer amount of incoming information is a lot to take in, but it won't be so intimidating with experience.

 

You can envision things as organized in 3 fundamental lines. Cults for a primary army, those designed for a specific function, and those designed primarily for HQ casters.

 

  • Magic/Mutation/Change/Manipulation are cults designed around support abilities -- you don't gain much benefit from running many units under that detachment.
  • Scheming/Knowledge are cults you can build like a task force. If you are intent on capturing a specific objective or killing a particular unit, they become pretty useful.
  • Duplicity/Prophecy/Time have a lot of utilitarian benefits that support core troops choices.

 

So as an example: you can bring your troop battalion under Duplicity, a min-sized fire support battalion under Knowledge, and an Auxilary HQ from Mutation which is designed to fly around the battlefield and pin down targets as needed with the Cult power.


Edited by GreenPlasma, 26 January 2020 - 09:22 AM.

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#629
BoomWolf

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Wait, if your warlord isn't from that cult you can't take the relic at all?

 

Really GW? Just the detachment limits alone for so little are harsh, why pile up extra limitations?

Not like we are top tier to begin with.


Edited by WarriorFish, 27 January 2020 - 09:04 AM.
Do not dodge the swear filter


#630
Archaeinox

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40kfaq@gwplc.com, have at it boys.. Make yourself heard lol.


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"You're a wizard, Ahri"

"Discgoat for Harambe"


#631
Ahzek451

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40kfaq@gwplc.com, have at it boys.. Make yourself heard lol.

You beat me to it, haha. How many are in favor of an add on to our trait that effects more than psykers? How many are in favor of an army wide bonus for running pure sons? GW seems to keep this for imperial only, xenos and chaos have yet to receive a pure army bonus.

I often wonder if GW will take the sigmar/oldschool 40k route and combine daemons/thousand sons into one book for.9th edition.

Edited by Ahzek451, 26 January 2020 - 02:25 PM.


#632
Zodd1888

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Sent with no expectations. I just really feel like they don't know what to do, or they're looking at 1kS with a 5 year plan mindset and are okay to watch us suffer mono untill we get some form of 1kS focused release.

#633
Raven1

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I dont think GW wants to do an army wide bonus for pure chaos factions because of things like demons and by possibly knights.

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#634
Prot

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While I haven't taken the second Relic from an 'unused' Cult, what I have been doing is spending 1 extra CP for an extra Warlord from a Cult, and using another CP to take the Relic as well.

 

I think that's what they intended. But I don't take the relic from a cult I'm not using. (Same goes for WL trait.)


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#635
Archaeinox

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While I haven't taken the second Relic from an 'unused' Cult, what I have been doing is spending 1 extra CP for an extra Warlord from a Cult, and using another CP to take the Relic as well.

 

I think that's what they intended. But I don't take the relic from a cult I'm not using. (Same goes for WL trait.)

 

 

Just more reason to try to think about double battalion lists, for sure for those precious cp. shame.


Edited by Archaeinox, 26 January 2020 - 04:44 PM.

"You're a wizard, Ahri"

"Discgoat for Harambe"


#636
Heliomanes

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I don't think that is legal. No idea what they intended, but the rules seem clear. Only a Ritual of the Damned relic for the cult of your warlord. Unfortunately. Hope they faq this, of course - but I would not hold my breath. Which is more reason to avoid double batallion lists, or to stick with soup - since you get most of your bonuses from a single detachment.



#637
BoomWolf

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Yea, the best way to run TS as supported by "our" PA book, is to not run actual TS...



#638
GreenPlasma

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Is there a single relic in 40k that's restricted in that manner?

 

I would not waste energy getting too worked up over this until the FAQ comes out.


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#639
deTox

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Oh wow, well that sucks, I was fine with the relic being accessible only in a detachment of the Relic's cult....but being overall limited to only 1 Ritual of the Damned relic in the whole army it's really a bit too much.

Also note guys that the same crap partially applies to the extra Warlord trait, you can not give let's say the Cult of Magic Warlord trait to a Daemon Prince that sits in a Cult of Duplicity battalion


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#640
Archaeinox

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well that's true enough, the Magister stratagem just lets you assign a warlord trait so it makes sense that the trait you take must be appropriate 


"You're a wizard, Ahri"

"Discgoat for Harambe"


#641
Prot

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Oh wow, well that sucks, I was fine with the relic being accessible only in a detachment of the Relic's cult....but being overall limited to only 1 Ritual of the Damned relic in the whole army it's really a bit too much.

Also note guys that the same crap partially applies to the extra Warlord trait, you can not give let's say the Cult of Magic Warlord trait to a Daemon Prince that sits in a Cult of Duplicity battalion

 

That was my thinking as well. If the belief is that you can only take one WL Trait from Cults, then you can't take a second Relic OR Trait.

 

I really don't think that's how it works. Basically the Trait (for example) says you act like a warlord for the purpose of taking the Trait. The Relic would work the same way. You're mimicking the role so you can access the asset in question. 

 

Again, for the zillionth time this just adds to my frustration at how they decided to add this ludicrous restrictive element. It was totally unnecessary. 

 

I've played over half a dozen games now .The restriction is built into the psychic phase and the powers themselves (in how they allow a target). The idea that 20 models may know a power for "Free" isn't that amazing in matched play when only one can cast it anyway. 

 

It really is just clunky, and difficult for no real reason.


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#642
Heliomanes

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deTox has it right. Prot is almost right - in my reading of the rules.

You can get a warlord trait from the appropriate cult, and use the stratagem to get a new one, which can still be from the appropriate cult. So you can have a warlord in the duplicity batallion, and use the magister stratagem to get another warlord trait in, say, the cult of magic batallion and get to use their unique trait on a character there. But as deTox mentions, you can't use the strat to get the magic warlord trait on a duplicity character, for instance.

Relics are more prohibitive than warlord traits, because of the wording of "Sorcerous arcana". It states:
"If your army is led by a THOUSAND SONS CULT Warlord, you can give the relevant CULT Sorcerous Arcana Relic to a THOUSAND SONS CULT CHARACTER model from your army instead of [book relic]".

So it's all restricted to the single cult keyword. The magister warlord trait does not change this, as it states that "it is regarded as the warlord for the purposes of the warlord trait". Which prohibits any extensive reading of the rule.

Again, hope they change this in the upcoming FAQ, but until then I fear we just have to adapt.



#643
Prot

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40kfaq@gwplc.com, have at it boys.. Make yourself heard lol.

 

Done. I encourage you all to do the same... please. 


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#644
Archaeinox

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Yeah guys please write up sensible emails and illustrate that there is some clunkiness


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"You're a wizard, Ahri"

"Discgoat for Harambe"


#645
Ahzek451

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Dont forget to add any other wants and desires to the codex besides the clunkiness. The noisy wheel gets the grease.
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#646
Guzzlrr

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Oh wow, well that sucks, I was fine with the relic being accessible only in a detachment of the Relic's cult....but being overall limited to only 1 Ritual of the Damned relic in the whole army it's really a bit too much.

Also note guys that the same crap partially applies to the extra Warlord trait, you can not give let's say the Cult of Magic Warlord trait to a Daemon Prince that sits in a Cult of Duplicity battalion

 

That was my thinking as well. If the belief is that you can only take one WL Trait from Cults, then you can't take a second Relic OR Trait.

 

I really don't think that's how it works. Basically the Trait (for example) says you act like a warlord for the purpose of taking the Trait. The Relic would work the same way. You're mimicking the role so you can access the asset in question. 

 

Again, for the zillionth time this just adds to my frustration at how they decided to add this ludicrous restrictive element. It was totally unnecessary. 

 

I've played over half a dozen games now .The restriction is built into the psychic phase and the powers themselves (in how they allow a target). The idea that 20 models may know a power for "Free" isn't that amazing in matched play when only one can cast it anyway. 

 

It really is just clunky, and difficult for no real reason.

 

 

 

I whole wholeheartedly agree Chaos always has such rubbish and arbitrarily restrictions on everything, its all god specific or artificially clunky so much so that you definitely wouldn't see such arbitrary restrictions on Space marines or any Variations of

 

it so frustrating at times.   


Edited by Guzzlrr, 27 January 2020 - 07:33 PM.

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#647
Zodd1888

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I'm surprised to see that the majority of the Facebook community views these concerns as a none issue. I realize the mechanics are clear, but they're so inconsistent when looking at everyone else.

We'll see what happens in the distant future, I can only expect war and dark terrible things.

#648
Dolchiate Remembrancer

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Gave Cult of Duplicity a trial run today in a 1k game vs Necrons.
Tzeentch approved.
I only missed 2 casts all game and absolutely dominated. Dice rolls were incredible as well. But onto the cult: teleporting rubrics is amazing, especially if we start conservatively and pick our spots as the game goes on. The WLT caught my opponent by surprise and allowed me to stand some of his units so I could pick who I wanted to deal with and when. Totally forgot about the tome all game long so I wont comment on it, although when i did remember it, it gave a CP to my opponent lol.
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#649
Archaeinox

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Nice, thanks for the report. Again, it confirms my suspicions that Duplicity will be the go to for me.

 

In applications where you can choose relics just before you start the game, it might help to select Perfidious Tome in cases where your opponent spends tons of CP before the game and starts with very few. Otherwise, if you see the opponent has lots of cp and wants to use them often, take Helm of 3rd Eye


"You're a wizard, Ahri"

"Discgoat for Harambe"


#650
Dolchiate Remembrancer

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Nice, thanks for the report. Again, it confirms my suspicions that Duplicity will be the go to for me.

In applications where you can choose relics just before you start the game, it might help to select Perfidious Tome in cases where your opponent spends tons of CP before the game and starts with very few. Otherwise, if you see the opponent has lots of cp and wants to use them often, take Helm of 3rd Eye

I think Duplicity will be my go to too, but I dont think playing it hyper aggressive is the way to go. Use the WLT to have your opponent spread out his forces and give you a shot to isolate some elements. Playing conservatively is to our advantage. Pick something you want off the field and make turn 2 when you get rid of them(DMC, starts, spell and DS can make it so 3-4 rubrics and SoT show up at one spot).
Finally it was a 1k game. So Duplicity was that much more important to me and my army. At larger games it will have less of an impact.
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IA: Crimson Sons of Vengeance(BA Successor) ++ IT: Thrallband Tusmah(TS Thrallband)

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