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Hope for DW? CA 2019


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29 replies to this topic

#1
GrinNfool

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It seems they reversed their decision to make DW pay points for their chapter tactic of SIA.  We are paying the same points as normal marines now for bolt weapons that can use SIA.  Specific things that makes a lot better.... Stalker boltguns only 1 point now, twin bolt guns (bikes) 2 points, guy said stormbolters twice and 2 points each time...  Autobolt rifles only 1 bolt carbines free etc etc.  Think he said infernus was 14 now... but was really hard to understand him when he said it.  Should be able to afford another squad or a few couple more upgrades than before now.  I think it immediately makes us more viable at least now that we don't pay points for our chapter tactic.  Its definitely a nice change.

 

Edit: Also Hvy Thunder hammer 18... should be usable now sooo looking forward to that.


Edited by GrinNfool, 30 November 2019 - 08:09 PM.

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#2
Irbis

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There will be hope when current DW kinda-bad stuff will be moved to doctrine equivalent and DW gets build-a-watch-fortress system instead. Really, there are tons of relics and tactics mentioned in fluff, why not bring them to table together with more customization options?



#3
Doctor Perils

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Perhaps a super-specialised squad mechanic in replacement of a warlord trait, in the same vein as the Tyranids adaptive physiology? It would give a player the opportunity to bring a kill team from the RPG to life on the tabletop even better then they currently have :)


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#4
infyrana

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Stalker pattern boltguns only 1 point?  That mean I should definitely make up more?! :D



#5
Chris521

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While I like what I'm seeing for them in CA, I'm kind of anxious about what an faq will say about the misprint in the Veterans entry. I hope we won't have to pay a higher cost to point Vanguards, bike, and terminators in a kill team.



#6
Black_Knight

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Going off what is said in Striking Scorpions video and current prices in Battlescribe(There maybe one or two mistakes as sometimes Battlescribe includes wargear in the base price e.g Librarians)

 

HQ:

Chaplain in Terminator Armour -2 to 90

Librarian -8 to 80

Librarian in Terminator Armour -2 to 100

Librarian with Jump Pack -4 to 108

Primaris Librarian -3 to 90

Primaris Watch Captain  to 78

Watch Master -15 to 115

Watch Captain Artemis -30 to 100

 

Elite:

Reiver -2 to 16

 

Troops:

No changes but he mentions Reivers here are 18 and not 16.

 

Heavy:

Landraider -20 to 180

 

Transport:

Repulsor +20 to 205(He says 205 but every other Space Marine Army has 215 so not sure)

Rhino -10 to 65

Corvus -10 to 125

 

Weapons:

Assault Plasma Incinerator -2 to 15

Auto Bolt Rifle -1 to 1

Bolt Carbine -2 to 0

Bolt Rifle -1 to 0

Bolt Gun -1 to 0

Combi-Flamer -1 to 8

Combi-Grav -1 to 13

Combi-Melta -1 to 15

Combi-Plasma -1 to 11

Cyclone Missile Launcher -10 to 32(Not sure if this is with the Storm Bolter or not)

Deathwatch Frag Cannon - 5 to 20

Deathwatch Shotgun -2 to 1

Flamestorm Cannon -5 to 25

Flamestorm Gauntlets -1 to 14

Grav-Gun -2 to 10

Onslaught Gatling Cannon +14 to 30(He must mean the Heavy as he mentions this again later at the lower price)

Inferno Pistol +2 to 9

Infernus Heavy Bolter -6 to 14

Master-crafted Auto Bolt Rifle -2 to 4

Master-crafted Boltgun -2 to 3

Master-crafted Stalker Bolt Rifle -1 to 5

Melta Bombs 5(Can we even take these?)

Stalker Bolt Rifle -1 to 0

Stalker Pattern Bolt Gun -3 to 1

StormBolter -2 to 2

Twin Bolt Gun -2 to 2

Dreadnought Combat Weapon -10 to 20

I swear he says Ball Sacks 10(Please help my hearing)

Staven Sword 8?

Heavy Thunder Hammer -12 to 18

Lightning Claws -2 to 6

2x Lightning Claws -4 to 10

Thunder Hammer(Char) +19 to 40

Xenophase Blade -2 to 5 --- That right there is me swapping all my Sergeants again!

Combat Shield -3 to 1

 

Blackstar Cluster Launcher 0? No idea what this is

Deathwing Launcher 5? No idea what this is


Edited by Black_Knight, 01 December 2019 - 03:13 PM.

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#7
Azaiel

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Your a hero Black knight! thx for the summary!

 

Finally our uniqe wargear gets points adjustment (we didnt get any last year). Interesting that the fragcannon went down. Welcome lowering of the shotguns. The removal of the SIA tax was inevtiable if we compare our army against codex/founding chapter space marines. They effectively get variants of our SIA in doctrines, stratagems etc...

 

Melta bombs can be equipped on our vanguard vet unit.



#8
Black_Knight

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No problem, someone had to do it and I am impatient tongue.png

 

As I said might be one or two errors but most should be about right, there's quite a few options that are now interesting, especially shotguns, Infernus etc. Wish the Repulsor hadn't gone up 20 though.

 

Still want to know what the Ballsacks are though...


Edited by Black_Knight, 01 December 2019 - 03:05 PM.

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#9
Trollbeard

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So heavy thunder hammer being 18 points now, are they worth it yet?

And also, are they D6 damage, with mortal wounds on wound rolls of 6? Can’t remember off hand.

I think for the price they should have a the rule where damage rolla of 1 and 2 count as 3 damage.

Edited by Trollbeard, 01 December 2019 - 03:12 PM.


#10
Black_Knight

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Not mortal wounds but guaranteed 6 Damage on 6+. So if you have some sort of to hit bonus it gets interesting but I think the constant 3 damage on a normal hammer, paired with the ability to carry another weapon/shield still makes the normal hammer superior. Also you can't take it on a Blackshield still...


Edited by Black_Knight, 01 December 2019 - 03:19 PM.

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#11
Kargrym

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Not mortal wounds but guaranteed 6 Damage on 6+. So if you have some sort of to hit bonus it gets interesting but I think the constant 3 damage on a normal hammer, paired with the ability to carry another weapon/shield still makes the normal hammer superior. Also you can't take it on a Blackshield still...


When I carry it, I stick it on the vanguard vet in a kill team.

#12
Mr4Minutes

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On a purely points efficient competitive list HTH are a pass. As Black_Knight says the TH is more consistent and you can take a SS or SB with it.

But in casual games it’s now useable at least.

I’m skeptical on the SIA points drop. It feels like a GW copy/paste error. And given GWs history with making errors when they update DeathWatch I’m expecting the CA faq to bring the 1-2 points back for SIA.

#13
Black_Knight

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If it is a copy/paste error its becoming a problem now. It isn't just outdated points due to newer releases but constant Huge lapses like this. I have been reading a few summaries and almost every army has a "Must be a misprint" entry.

 

Only GW could get away with this many errors in a publication where normal books will get shredded in reviews for more than a handful at 10 times the word count.


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#14
Watch Captain Artemis

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I'm really happy with the changes. The only thing i don't understand, is the Repulsor. We are getting a point increase for no reason. Without Doctrines the repulsor is not a big deal.

#15
Irbis

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I swear he says Ball Sacks 10(Please help my hearing)

Staven Sword 8?


Deathwing Launcher 5? No idea what this is

 

That's force axe, force sword, and infernum halo launcher whistlingW.gif

 

No changes to melta fists or grav weapons? Or relic blades? What? ermm.gif


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#16
Black_Knight

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Ahhh Force Axe is Ballsacks, now that makes sense! Thanks Irbis it was really bugging me.

 

Do not take the list as concrete though I am still finding the occasional extra/error when I get through the onslaught of summary videos in my feed right now.


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#17
IronDreddKnight

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Can anybody confirm the new price of a corvus blackstar for me please :)

#18
Irbis

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Do not take the list as concrete though I am still finding the occasional extra/error when I get through the onslaught of summary videos in my feed right now.

 
I also looked at other videos, it looks like none of the mentioned things received a drop. Which is pretty balls, seeing if there is one DW weapon that needed it, it's melta fist. Also, it's a shame relic blades and xenophase were not added to general weapon list, it's pretty dumb intercessors and vanguard can take dozen weapon not found on sprue each but adding the above ones is somehow difficult. DW really needs PA update.
 

So heavy thunder hammer being 18 points now, are they worth it yet?

And also, are they D6 damage, with mortal wounds on wound rolls of 6? Can’t remember off hand.

I think for the price they should have a the rule where damage rolla of 1 and 2 count as 3 damage.

 
Seeing two power fists are also 18 points, have 1-2 more attacks if you take them on sarge/blackshield, average higher damage even on veterans (4-6 x2 vs 2 x3.66), don't block the other hand, and are better at clearing infantry I still wouldn't take them. But I just prefer fists over hammers.



#19
Black_Knight

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If you click the link to the video in my post IronDreddKnight it goes directly to the DW section. You can fast forward to the Transport section to verify what I wrote down.


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#20
Duke Danse Macabre

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Well all in all I think we did OK, yes we need a new codex, we know that but after the BA one I have hope and I have saved 52 points on the list I was already running.
I think these points values will be set in stone in our codex as well though because it's likely going to be in production now or about to enter production. :(

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#21
Mobius0288

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Can anybody confirm the new price of a corvus blackstar for me please smile.png

 

125 base is what I've been seeing.


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#22
Qui-Gon

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Going off what is said in Striking Scorpions video and current prices in Battlescribe(There maybe one or two mistakes as sometimes Battlescribe includes wargear in the base price e.g Librarians)

 

HQ:

Chaplain in Terminator Armour -2 to 90 

Librarian -8 to 80

Librarian in Terminator Armour -2 to 100

Librarian with Jump Pack -4 to 108

Primaris Librarian -3 to 90

Primaris Watch Captain  to 78

Watch Master -15 to 115

Watch Captain Artemis -30 to 100

 

Elite:

Reiver -2 to 16

 

Troops:

No changes but he mentions Reivers here are 18 and not 16.

 

Heavy:

Landraider -20 to 180

 

Transport:

Repulsor +20 to 205(He says 205 but every other Space Marine Army has 215 so not sure)

Rhino -10 to 65

Corvus -10 to 125

 

Weapons:

Assault Plasma Incinerator -2 to 15

Auto Bolt Rifle -1 to 1

Bolt Carbine -2 to 0

Bolt Rifle -1 to 0

Bolt Gun -1 to 0

Combi-Flamer -1 to 8

Combi-Grav -1 to 13

Combi-Melta -1 to 15

Combi-Plasma -1 to 11

Cyclone Missile Launcher -10 to 32(Not sure if this is with the Storm Bolter or not)

Deathwatch Frag Cannon - 5 to 20

Deathwatch Shotgun -2 to 1

Flamestorm Cannon -5 to 25

Flamestorm Gauntlets -1 to 14

Grav-Gun -2 to 10

Onslaught Gatling Cannon +14 to 30(He must mean the Heavy as he mentions this again later at the lower price)

Inferno Pistol +2 to 9

Infernus Heavy Bolter -6 to 14

Master-crafted Auto Bolt Rifle -2 to 4

Master-crafted Boltgun -2 to 3

Master-crafted Stalker Bolt Rifle -1 to 5

Melta Bombs 5(Can we even take these?)

Stalker Bolt Rifle -1 to 0

Stalker Pattern Bolt Gun -3 to 1

StormBolter -2 to 2

Twin Bolt Gun -2 to 2

Dreadnought Combat Weapon -10 to 20

I swear he says Ball Sacks 10(Please help my hearing)

Staven Sword 8?

Heavy Thunder Hammer -12 to 18

Lightning Claws -2 to 6

2x Lightning Claws -4 to 10

Thunder Hammer(Char) +19 to 40

Xenophase Blade -2 to 5 --- That right there is me swapping all my Sergeants again!

Combat Shield -3 to 1

 

Blackstar Cluster Launcher 0? No idea what this is

Deathwing Launcher 5? No idea what this is

 

 

Stealing my thunder after last year when I did the whole post of chapter approved adjustments? ;)

Repulsors are 215.

Vanguard Veterans as a unit choice can take Melta bombs.



#23
Prot

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Call me crazy but I love the Heavy Thunder Hammer reduction. Just loved the look of the weapon on my Vanguard and now they might actually see more play time.

 

Thanks for doing this Black Knight!


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#24
Black_Knight

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No problem, I just had my codex out for the first time in forever and realised it is probably cheaper to buy an amazon tablet and put the pdf on it than all this new "Update" codex material.

 

Star Trek gets a little closer every day.


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#25
infyrana

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Has this encouraged anyone to try more Stalker Pattern Boltgun vets in their lists?  I missed out on a chance to pickup a bunch more of them lately and wondered if I should have seized the opportunity.  Or for that matter, other weaponry like the FC, Shotgun etc for Vets specifically.






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