Hope for DW? CA 2019

[Black Knight]

You're reading it right. My list allows me to take the same stuff but I can really take the HQs I wanted to(I am looking at you Terminator Librarian)

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Well that's some good news at least.

It's was bad enough we didn't have all the toys, at least we pay the same price for them now.

It's too much fun modelling the hq's, I think I have 8 captains now.

You have a plan for a conversion or is this a pre existing guy?

[Black Knight]

Its the nice Blood Angel model, I really like it for some reason.

 

[morsla]

My resolve to field a thunderhammer Captain is wavering, now I've realised the price difference from a Relic Blade (31 points) is enough to add an extra Terminator to one of my units...

 

Or I could upgrade three stormbolters to combi-plasmas. Hmmm.

[Kolgrim DeathHowl]

Its the nice Blood Angel model, I really like it for some reason.

 

Oh wow that is cool, I might have to grab it put my spin of a conversion on it!

[Mobius0288]

What do you guys think of the new landraider price vs the repulsor executioner? Of course our mortis contemptors are the cheapest platform, but do you think having that T8 would be the difference?

 

@morsla I'm with you on the TH. I've already begun a few powerfist conversions.

[Black Knight]

The Land Raider's new price is tempting, I like to run two Venerable Dreadnoughts and the new price puts it so close that you could run a Landraider instead. 

 

• Dreadnoughts have +2BS but no Machine Spirit so if you have to regularly have to move your Dreadnoughts it makes the Landraider on par.
• Both haven't got fly so no change there but compared to the Repulsor(Transport) you are trading Lascannons for fly.
• Dreadnoughts offer great counter punch if you take the CCW(I prefer missiles)
• Land raider is going to get focus fired into a crater even with the 2+ save and all the wounds are on a single chassis so you can't force some wasted wounds on two models.
• A Landraider can transport heavy infantry

 

If you need a moving gun platform which can offer some cover then go with the Landraider, if you need some immobile snipers go with the dreadnoughts and if you are fighting anything that can tie you up it might be worth trading some lascannons for extra chaff Dakka and fly.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Black_Knight

[Mr4Minutes]

So I finally got my copy of CA. And the mess up on how many terminators, hellblasters etc you can take is not only hilarious, but it also makes DW unplayable.

 

If CA is enforced not only can you take 31 Terminators you have to take 31. They don’t indicate a minimum number allowed, it’s just a flat number.

 

Technically one kill team can now contain 101 models now.

 

I’m now expecting an faq next Saturday that not only fixes this but adds SIA cost back to our bolter weapons.

[Black Knight]

If no one mentions it they may miss it... maybe.

[GrinNfool]

So I finally got my copy of CA. And the mess up on how many terminators, hellblasters etc you can take is not only hilarious, but it also makes DW unplayable.

 

If CA is enforced not only can you take 31 Terminators you have to take 31. They don’t indicate a minimum number allowed, it’s just a flat number.

 

Technically one kill team can now contain 101 models now.

 

I’m now expecting an faq next Saturday that not only fixes this but adds SIA cost back to our bolter weapons.

Eh they COULD up the cost on the bolt weapons again because SIA... or they could do the right thing and not... since its our chapter tactic essentially.  Especially in light of all the crazy recent marine stuff, DW's SIA isn't anything impressive enough to warrant a 1-3 point tax per model and prevents bolter discipline, especially when you consider our other "tactic" is reroll 1s to wound vs a specific battle field role.  Won't put anything past GW certainly... but if it was a misprint.. hopefully they look and correctly evaluate it and say hmm this is actually fine.  Its not like anyone is gonna drop IH, RG, WS, etc because DW lists went down 50-75 points lol.

Edited December 14, 2019 by GrinNfool

[Mobius0288]

Ya I've seen a few people talking about the SIA cost being a mistake... like it's our chapter tactic, how is removing the cost a mistake? Our basic and cheapest troop choice is a Vet unit, which cost more than most other basic troops from other factions. Oh and were gonna up the cost of your weapons too? Nah dude, that's not right. Removing the "SIA cost" was needed.

[Irbis]

Ya I've seen a few people talking about the SIA cost being a mistake... like it's our chapter tactic, how is removing the cost a mistake? Our basic and cheapest troop choice is a Vet unit, which cost more than most other basic troops from other factions. Oh and were gonna up the cost of your weapons too? Nah dude, that's not right. Removing the "SIA cost" was needed.

Frankly they should slash the cost of the veterans across the board, too. If SM elites like sternguard and their gear (special issue bolters for one) got point cuts, I see no reason why DW shouldn't get them either, even before consideing new SM traits. And add the frakking relic blades to melee option list too, for Emprah's sake.

 

Really, at this point, DW could really use a new Codex, not just band aids. Double the unit count (DW champions/techmarines or SM flyers, anyone?), make mission tactics DW equivalent of doctrines (and buff them too), give DW fortress traits, psychic table, chaplain chants, the works.

[Mobius0288]

I'm with you. Would totally be up for a Deathwatch techmarine, elite or HQ choice. It makes sense from lore and we could their abilities. Or give them unique abilities.. +1 cover around 6"? Idk. The tech marine is a pet peeve for me.

 

The bing for me is, stop treating us like space Marines if your not going to give all the space marine goodies. Don't tax my basic troops and then tax my guns for less army capabilities and no way to keep my dudes alive longer. An inherent 5+ or 6+ FNP because we're elite Veterans and tougher then everyone else? Hmm... Kinda makes sense. Maybe too much sense...

[morsla]

Just updated my eBook copy of the Codex (Dec 11 version, apparently including the new FAQ & Errata updates).

 

Most points costs now seem to match the ones shown in this thread: 40 point character thunder hammers, 1 point auto boltrifles, 11 point combi-plasmas, 20 point Frag Cannons, etc.

 

Stormbolters for non-vehicle models are still listed at 4 points though: twin boltguns are 2, and so are vehicle stormbolters.

 

It doesn't have the obvious misprints from Chapter Approved (31 terminators per unit, etc), but the Stormbolter cost is a bit of a pain. Can anyone with the Chapter Approved book confirm that the rumoured change (dropping to 2 points) for non-vehicle Stormbolters was correct? Otherwise, I guess I have a few less models to paint...

[Black Knight]

I don't have the book yet, its still in transit but looking at Battlescribe it does have them at 2pts.  I have also seen it mentioned on Youtube videos that they are now 2pts. So I think it maybe a mistake on the eBook.

[zero88]

Is anyone considering a squadron of Land Speeder Tempests with a Jump Captain with the Time of Ectoclades tagging along? They dropped to a fair 87 points apiece. 368 points gets you three Speeders plus a Jump Captain with Relic Blade and Master Crafted Bolter. That's 18 wounds of T6 and 18 Assault Cannon shots plus an additional ~12 more at S6 -3 and D2, re-rolling 1s to hit and 1s to wound. You can run them in one squadron if you plan on using +1 to wound, or stand-alone as an Outrider Detachment for more survivability and an extra Command Point. Not to mention the models are absolutely beautiful Edited January 2, 2020 by zero88

[GrinNfool]

Eh for what DW can do already the tempests are just kinda meh to me.  If you want 2 damage a primaris stalker squad would likely serve you better.  Not to mention all its weapons are heavy, and it is likely going to move every turn, so probably hitting on 4s all the time, and if it advances can't shoot anything.  Suffers from a similar problem to the corvus.  In fact they actually compare rather poorly to the corvus when I think about it more.  2 put out slightly less firepower for 174 points only t6 and 12 wounds not 14 and no transport capacity, less mobility (slightly), and no -1 to hit them w/o advancing which means no firing.   I actually think in a lot of situations the 50 points extra for the corvus is worth all those boons.

 

There are worse models to be sure, just, I don't think they fit DW particularly well.

[Irbis]

Is anyone considering a squadron of Land Speeder Tempests with a Jump Captain with the Time of Ectoclades tagging along? They dropped to a fair 87 points apiece. 368 points gets you three Speeders plus a Jump Captain with Relic Blade and Master Crafted Bolter. That's 18 wounds of T6 and 18 Assault Cannon shots plus an additional ~12 more at S6 -3 and D2, re-rolling 1s to hit and 1s to wound. You can run them in one squadron if you plan on using +1 to wound, or stand-alone as an Outrider Detachment for more survivability and an extra Command Point. Not to mention the models are absolutely beautiful

Consider that 9 Inceptors cost the same, while offering 27 3+ wounds (admittedly T5 but 50% increase is far better), not needing relic to work, having far superior melee, and 54 shots (1 S weaker but better in virtually every possible role). It's already not really a contest, but if Inceptors had access to SIA, they would blow them out of the water. And honestly, I like the image of heavily armoured marines dropping from orbit to clear landing zone for the rest of the company in Blackstars more than anachronistic Land Speeders that feel kind out of place (at least until DW gets 'normal' Land Speeders, which it should TBH).

[Inquisitor Trinity]

So after the points drop is Artemis at all worth it now? Or would you recommend a librarian instead? I have a watchmaster, captain and chaplain already and due to the points increase i dropped the smash/slam captain that was the 4th HQ for the double battalion so i need something to fill the slot. If we finally get access to chaplain litanies in psychic awakening i'll go with a primaris chaplain but until then Artemis or a librarian or perhaps a primaris captain are my options model wise. (without buying more models)

[NKirkham24]

So after the points drop is Artemis at all worth it now? Or would you recommend a librarian instead? I have a watchmaster, captain and chaplain already and due to the points increase i dropped the smash/slam captain that was the 4th HQ for the double battalion so i need something to fill the slot. If we finally get access to chaplain litanies in psychic awakening i'll go with a primaris chaplain but until then Artemis or a librarian or perhaps a primaris captain are my options model wise. (without buying more models)

 

I wrote an Ordo Xenos 2k list last night with a dual battalion and an Inquisition Vanguard detachment. 

 

I included Artemis in my list. TBH he's just a Captain at the end of the day, relic flamer is ok, his generic power sword is meh, and his stasis bomb is nice. He adds a little more character in an army full of them.

 

In my particular list I have Eisenhorn giving me psychic support, so a Librarian wasn't essential, but that would depend on your other choices I suppose.