Iron Father Ferrum Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) There's two different Hades cannons. The "Hades cannon" is a Lord of Skulls option, the "Hades autocannon" is the Forgefiend option. Edited December 2, 2019 by Iron Father Ferrum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrawlingCleaner Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 There's two different Hades cannons. The "Hades cannon" is a Lord of Skulls option, the "Hades autocannon" is the Forgefiend option. Ah okay, that makes way more sense. It was either that or the Forgefiend was hilariously overcosted. Bring a lot of Chaos choices in line with their loyalist counterparts was really needed and a good move from GW, as others have said I still think theres some stuff that needs to be brought down some more but this is a step in the right direction for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamIsCollapsing Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 With those news point cost a CSM Brigade with HQ : Chaos lord, Jetpack sorcerer and Dark apostle w/ Disciples Troops : 5*5 SMC and 10 Cultust Heavy support : 2*5 Havoks without wepaons Fast attack : 2 Spawn and 5 Warptalons Elite = 5 Terminators and 2 Greater Possessed 1088 points. It leave 912 points to equip the Havoks, get a third Heavy support chooce and add whatever you want. Do you think with the point cost reduction Brigade is the way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrawlingCleaner Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 With those news point cost a CSM Brigade with HQ : Chaos lord, Jetpack sorcerer and Dark apostle w/ Disciples Troops : 5*5 SMC and 10 Cultust Heavy support : 2*5 Havoks without wepaons Fast attack : 2 Spawn and 5 Warptalons Elite = 5 Terminators and 2 Greater Possessed 1088 points. It leave 912 points to equip the Havoks, get a third Heavy support chooce and add whatever you want. Do you think with the point cost reduction Brigade is the way ? Personally dual Battalion is always the way to go, fast attack choices aren't really that needed in a lot of armies and for only an extra HQ slot you've got an extra few command points. While it could be seen that HQs can be tax slots, for the way Chaos seems to work and the way the game is going: HQs with auras make their points back quick. For about 30 more points you can have an exalted champion or 20 more a Warpsmith WarriorFish and Marshal Loss 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 If your using a legion with really strong troops like WE its definitely worth a look. Maybe for EC too now. Marshal Loss 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) Personally dual Battalion is always the way to go, fast attack choices aren't really that needed in a lot of armies and for only an extra HQ slot you've got an extra few command points. Brigade is 15 cp, dual battalion is 13 so no you don't get extra CP unless you're going for red corsairs. triple battalion is 18 cp and can be better than a brigade but I'm not sure its really an option for chaos. Edited December 3, 2019 by Closet Skeleton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Mor Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 By the way brigade is 3 of each slot as well, not 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 By the way brigade is 3 of each slot as well, not 2. You obviously didn't read his whole post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) Personally dual Battalion is always the way to go, fast attack choices aren't really that needed in a lot of armies and for only an extra HQ slot you've got an extra few command points. Brigade is 15 cp, dual battalion is 12 so no you don't get extra CP unless you're going for red corsairs. triple battalion is 17 cp and can be better than a brigade but I'm not sure its really an option for chaos. A dual battalion is 13 CP total, not 12 (making a triple 18, not 17). If your using a legion with really strong troops like WE its definitely worth a look. Maybe for EC too now. A very fair point. I'll be interested to see if either of those two Legions begin using Brigades now Edited December 2, 2019 by Marshal Loss techsoldaten 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 On that note: GW give us new Zerkers and Noise Marines! Right now especially those feel like gold mines for GW. I can see WE and definitely EC detachments being standard for many chaos builds. Tyriks 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techsoldaten Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 If your using a legion with really strong troops like WE its definitely worth a look. Maybe for EC too now. A very fair point. I'll be interested to see if either of those two Legions begin using Brigades now For EC specifically, I don't think there's a case to be made for a Brigade. You lose too much on the elite slot, there's almost no reason not to optimize around troops and heavies. Would love to be convinced otherwise. For WE, I love the idea of 10x Red Butchers to fill an elite slot. I guess melee Helbrutes could fill the other 2? Otherwise, it's easy to see how a normal WE detachment could fill out a batallion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) Yes I agree although elites are doable I believe. Its the troops which suffer from diminishing return. The first is money, the second redundancy from there its filler. If I wanted to attempt it I'd probably start with something like this: 10 NM 2 blastmasters as a firebase for 154. I used these for awhile they're solid with all the ablatives. Add 10 more with 2 blastmasters and 5 SBs rhino, then probably 2x5 with blastmaster and SBs in rhinos, and 2 cultists. Elites would probably be a mix of contemptors which nearly always feature in my lists. And lastly maybe a sonic dread. HQs are murderously good and FA/HS both have strong options. Meh anyway.. World eaters now.. I believe can make a very solid brigade probably the best of all csm. Its just so threat dense its ridiculous. Edit edit- ya scratch that. I can't build a brigade list I like even with WE. Too many sub optimal filler choices. Edited December 3, 2019 by Brom MKIV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) I think WE are one of the better dual battalion legions due to their good troops while brigades are more viable with the other Legions. Plausible basis for a WE brigade with 1925 points so some room to make it work Jump Pack Lord Exalted Champ Dark Apostle 5 khorne berserkers, 4 chain axes and power fist x6 5 terminators with combi-bolter and chainaxe x3 5 warp talons x3 1x Obliterator x3 rhinos x3 Good target saturation to protect the rhinos would be swapping obliterators for venomcrawlers and the terminators for missile/lascannon helbrutes Edited December 3, 2019 by Closet Skeleton Papewaio, Cheex and Khornestar 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlover Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Anyone seen if the Kytan and Fire Raptor have changed? Dragonlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Kytan iirc did not but the lord of skulls is crazy cheap now. Might see more proxys using the kytan. I just faced one and it was insane. Healing, dice mods, strats, psych.. I took it to 2w then it swung in cc with 27 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s to hit and wound. Then healed 8 wounds back. Awesome unit now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kythnos Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) Kytan iirc did not but the lord of skulls is crazy cheap now. Might see more proxys using the kytan. I just faced one and it was insane. Healing, dice mods, strats, psych.. I took it to 2w then it swung in cc with 27 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s to hit and wound. Then healed 8 wounds back. Awesome unit now.Yeah I am also looking to get a Lord of Skulls now. It looks really nice on paper after the changes. Anyone know if the Forgefiend's gatling fits as the gatling for the LoS? Edited December 4, 2019 by Kythnos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Lord of Skulls looks like it belongs in AoS than 40k. Would rather use the forge feind gatlings for a double avenger knight conversion. nanosquid and Lord_Starscream 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Kytan iirc did not but the lord of skulls is crazy cheap now. Might see more proxys using the kytan. I just faced one and it was insane. Healing, dice mods, strats, psych.. I took it to 2w then it swung in cc with 27 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s to hit and wound. Then healed 8 wounds back. Awesome unit now.Yeah I am also looking to get a Lord of Skulls now. It looks really nice on paper after the changes.Anyone know if the Forgefiend's gatling fits as the gatling for the LoS? I think it could work fine. The LoS hades Gatling has a slightly wider diameter, but the FF’s hades should fit fine with a little work. Elazar The Glorified 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fhanados Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Wow CA19 is super kind to my collection! I'm especially excited about the drop in points for Fallen - I've got 30 of the blighters so that alone shaves 90 points off my Fallen detachment. I basically get Cypher for free now! The drops to Obliterators and Forgefiends are also really nice. They were an old staple in my now-decommissioned Word Bearers army and I'll always have a soft spot for them. Maybe along with the drops on the Lord of Skulls I'll be able to finally make my Daemon Engine force! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irate Khornate Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 With the new 40 point price tag on the thunderhammer for characters, anyone else dropping it from their lists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 I'm certainly not as eager to convert up a hammerlord as I was before - so I'm not dropping one from my lists, but may well not be adding one where I was thinking of doing so prior to the points jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Gone from mine. Prior to the update but definitely not coming back now. Besides we have new smash princes now which are better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Sucks though they make a new chaos lord and monopose him with only a hammer in the kit, then jack the point cost up. Doom Herald 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kythnos Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Kytan iirc did not but the lord of skulls is crazy cheap now. Might see more proxys using the kytan. I just faced one and it was insane. Healing, dice mods, strats, psych.. I took it to 2w then it swung in cc with 27 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s to hit and wound. Then healed 8 wounds back. Awesome unit now.Yeah I am also looking to get a Lord of Skulls now. It looks really nice on paper after the changes.Anyone know if the Forgefiend's gatling fits as the gatling for the LoS? I think it could work fine. The LoS hades Gatling has a slightly wider diameter, but the FF’s hades should fit fine with a little work. Thanks, that helps. I will give it a try then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanosquid Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) Thunder hammers are still only 16 points on chosen. I think 31 attacks on the charge will be ok even if they only hit on 4s. Edited December 7, 2019 by Nazgob Iron-Daemon Forge 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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