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CA 2019 Point Changes?


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#1
Dr_Ruminahui

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There's quite the discussion on the CSM forum about the point decreases in the 2019 CA.  Does anyone know how Chaos Daemons fairs?



#2
Panzer

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I saw a list somewhere. Keepers got a lot cheaper and a bunch of other things but nothing that would make a squishy melee army competetive I'd say.


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#3
MasterDeath

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Troops

Plaguebearers go 1 up, other Troops unchanged

 

HQ

All Greater Daemons went down a bit ~40 pts

Some Named Heralds down a bit ~10%

 

Fast Attack

Furies -1

Plague Drones -4

Screamers -5

Fiends -5

 

Cant see much for Elites/Heavy Support (Image quality of the video)

 

DP with Wings -15

 

Source: Mob Rules (YT Channel) Iam not sure if I am allowed to link it


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#4
WarriorFish

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I was wondering where the Daemon changes were too, I wasn't expecting a huge amount of changes so this looks decent to me. Greater Daemons dropping in particular is good to see, hoping the Keeper of Secrets gets the larger discount! As with anything else, CA can't revise fundamentals but as far as points go this looks good :)


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#5
DeStinyFiSh

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https://www.directup...eej2d98_jpg.htm

 

This should help.

 

Strange thing ist the price of Tzeentch Heralds and the Masqu going back to the pre CA 2018 point costs.

Fleshhounds not getting cheaper is strange as well.


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#6
WarriorFish

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Some nice changes, this only encourages me more to get to my KoS tongue.png Someone with more experience with the Masque will need to say more on that change but I'm liking what I see so a good result for Slaaneshi Daemons overall it seems :)


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#7
Dr_Ruminahui

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Yeah, to me the Masque always seemed too expensive, not too cheap.  Guess that just puts it further back in my painting queue.

 

I'm surprised that Syll'Esthe is coming down a little - from my limited experience, they are a one-model army.

 

Overalll does look good, though it looks like they won't benefit me as much as the CSM reductions.



#8
DeStinyFiSh

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Syl stays, the -5 are for the Epitome and they are a mistake, it already costs 195 points.
List is not mine, stole in from Facebook.

#9
Mushkilla

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The keeper of secrets power level also went down to 11 (from 13) making her easier to summon. She also gained two snapping claw attacks. As there's no longer a column in her profile called snapping claws (which used to be 4,3,2) instead it just refers to her attack profile which is (6,5,4). So at top profile she gets 6 sword attacks and 6 claw attacks. A pretty nice buff to her damage output.
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#10
WarriorFish

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I missed this? Or perhaps I was not aware having only grazed the profile previously (as the model was the motivator!)? Either way worth noting smile.png

 

With the inbuilt -1 to hit in combat, and the Bewitching Aura Warlord Trait a KoS should be quite formidable in combat... assuming you can get it there tongue.png Sinistrous Hand and Soulstealer Relic on top and you might even be able to roll up a few units before the 5++ undoes you? Still a shame that Greater Daemons have such a poor save but that's not really CA's thing.

 

Regardless, now I've spent more time with and on my Daemons I'm feeling that CA2019 did good work. I don't think that's enough to bridge that gap in combat armies (that are squishy) in 8th, but who knows what the future holds?


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#11
Mushkilla

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With the inbuilt -1 to hit in combat, and the Bewitching Aura Warlord Trait a KoS should be quite formidable in combat... assuming you can get it there tongue.png Sinistrous Hand and Soulstealer Relic on top and you might even be able to roll up a few units before the 5++ undoes you? Still a shame that Greater Daemons have such a poor save but that's not really CA's thing.

I've had a load of success with daemons. Mostly building around summoning. The keeper of secrets is fantastic, the life steal sword is good, but I find its not worth losing the witstealer sword for it. Droping you to S7 and losing the -1 to hit is too much of a sacrifice. The -1 to hit is what makes the keeper the ultimate duelist, also helps counter 'fight when you die'  and 'fight again at the end of the phase' stratagems (as a unit that has been killed by a witstealer is a unit that has suffered wounds from it and therefore gets -1 to hit). The sinistrous hand gets triggered at the end of the fight phase which is great as you heal after you take damage, and if you use fiends/epitome properly you can keep her in combat in both you and your opponents turns netting 2d3 wounds a game turn (3d3 if you get histerical frenzy off). I've found warp surge (2CP at the start of the fight phase) and aura of aquiesence combined with quicksilver switfness means she can survive being charged by some real nasties. Her main weakness is shooting, but if you can keep her in combat she's unkillable. A real finess piece though.
 
I tend to summon her turn 3-4 when most of my opponents ranged threats have been neutralised and she gets dispraportionally powerful.


Edited by Mushkilla, 12 January 2020 - 05:58 PM.

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#12
WarriorFish

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That's a good point on the Witstealer, against characters and monsters and the like that -1 to hit will go far as they'd no doubt be the greatest threats in combat. I'll definitely try it out :) The Enrapturess is likely to be a regular in my lists, she'd help with summoning.

 

Hysterical Frenzy is an essential power, and as you'd expect better on the better unit so the KoS is an obvious choice. Furthermore, up against nasties (which is likely, given your opponent doesn't want her rampaging through their lines) it allows you to get your licks in before the combat phase which aside from the obvious could be used to free you up for a cheeky charge elsewhere biggrin.png

 

What changes have people been trying with the point drops? The GD drops must help them get into games more, what sort of builds are people using?


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#13
Mushkilla

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I've been running flamers and exalted flamers (summoning them depending on the match up) since the Daemon codex dropped. They have since had significant point drops every chapter approved, coming in now at 20pts and 50pts per model. They can really do work especially if you cast flickering fire and have a herald near them. Summoning and their 12" range pretty much grantees they'll have made a chunk of their points back before they get shot off the board which helps compound their efficiency. I've won games where I've just ground opponents down with swarms of flamers (summoning getting around the rule of 3). Match up dependent but that's what summoning is for.

But recently it's mostly slaanesh units that's I've started using more. Fiends and keepers as they do pretty well against this marine heavy meta that is plaguing the game. Being able to guaranteed summon 2 fiends on a single dice with an enrapturess is pretty handy.

Edited by Mushkilla, 12 January 2020 - 11:09 PM.


#14
Panzer

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I'd bet money that the snapping claws thing is just a mistake and will be part of the CA19 Errata that should come soon-ish.


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