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Dark Imperium: Guilliman Inquiry


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#1
Aothaine

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Just started reading Dark Imperium over the holiday and there is a very interesting exchange between Guilliman and an Adeptus Custode. They are heading toward a station they want to attack and a human says that it is going to take X time to reach the destination. The Adeptus Custode responds that they are wrong and it will take X time to reach the destination to Guilliman. Guilliman then says that the Adeptus Custode has been away from humans too long and suggests that maybe the Adeptus Custode would like to take the other humans place. The Adeptus Custode just remains silent but it seemed almost as if Guilliman did not like the Adeptus Custodes or maybe was disappointed in them for turtling up and not helping the Imperium. 

 

I am really curious. I'm I reading into this too much? Is Guilliman's feelings toward the Adeptus Custodes revealed at a later date and explained? Surely Guilliman knew that the human's calculations were wrong but he seems upset that the Adeptus Custode corrected the human. It just feels a little strange. Maybe Guilliman would have dealt with it another way other than just blatantly telling the human they were wrong and correcting them? It makes sense that the Adeptus Custode would do that. I mean, they are just under Primarchs in perfection and they are ancient and hyper trained in everything. 

 

Anyway, anyone have any insight into this?



#2
Dumah

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It's been a bit since I read the book, but from what I recall it likely had more to do with the tone and choice of words than the fact that he made a correction. I get the sense that Guilliman is a "constructive feedback" style of leader.


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#3
Aothaine

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It's been a bit since I read the book, but from what I recall it likely had more to do with the tone and choice of words than the fact that he made a correction. I get the sense that Guilliman is a "constructive feedback" style of leader.

 

That is kind of what I figured. It was really fitting that the Custode corrected the human. But I was just surprised that Guilliman sided with the human and kind of smacked the Custode across the face to get him to stop being a show-off. Something like that. I dunno though. It just feels like there is something more I'm missing.


Edited by Aothaine, 03 December 2019 - 12:17 AM.

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#4
N1SB

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Great question and I agree with Brother Dumah and you.  I don't remember the exact exchange, but I remember Guilliman had a killer burn when he mentioned to I think that same Custodes, "You guard the Emperor, but remember whom He guards in turn."  I don't think you're reading too much into it, I think you're reading into it exactly the intended amount.

 

Imho, Guilliman's crux of contention with the Custodes is their "ivory tower" mentality.  It's more than "walk a mile in his shoes", it's more like "it's easy to complain about the world up in your ivory tower", the Custodes having lived in the gilded cage that was the Imperial Palace.  It is that turtling up issue you mentioned.  Not only did they turtle up, but they're complaining about the galaxy precisely because they turtled up, didn't go out and solve the problems, and don't even seem to understand because they've been turtling up.

 

Perhaps you've had the same experience as I had in real life.  When I read that exchange I was reminded when I worked at an Asian subsidiary of a large multi-national corporation, I was supposed to be taking "guidance" from someone in Corporate HQ who was supposed to be the expert on my region...and he didn't even know the oral language people spoke in my area.  I jokingly pointed out it's an understandably confusing issue, that our writing was in THIS script but spoke THAT dialect, etc., seeking to avoid embarrassing him on a conference call, but as usual the people in the ivory tower have never been down in the field, and seem to lack basic understanding of what it was they're supposed to be helping with.

 

That said, without spoilers, Guilliman also gives proper respect to the Custodes, or at least their role, later in the very series you're reading.  At the end of the sequel to Dark Imperium, Plague War, Guilliman is about to have an important but private conversation with someone, and he sends everyone else out, including his Ultramarines...except for 1 Custodes.  He wants that Custodes to bear witness to the dialogue and have his testimony of it sent back to Terra.  It was very interesting that he chose a Custodes rather than even his own closest officer to that role.  The book was pretty okay and interesting, but that ending was imho great and highlights the biggest problem that Guilliman really doesn't know YET how to deal with in the 2 books, it's the anathema to his logic, and something you have to look forward to.  :)


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#5
Aothaine

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Ohhh dang! Super excited to finish this. But I need to take my time lol! I want to really enjoy these books over a few months so I'm limiting myself as much as I can. Sadly I looked up last Saturday and found I had read over 160 pages already. I had to put the book down even though I could have finished it that night. 

 

Thank you both for the thoughts and conversation! :D



#6
emperorpants

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From what I remember Gman was taking issue with the way the custode was looking down on humans, not so much that the custode corrected the human. The custode gave off a strong "useless humans" vibe, and Gman said "You've spent so long protecting the emperor that you've forgotten who he protects. Have more forgiveness." Essentially, Gman didn't like how the custode was looking down on normal humans.

Gotta remember Guilliman was raised by normal humans and worked along side them all his life. As others have said, he's one of the few well adjusted dudes in 40k. Hes also an actual legit good guy. One of the most noblebright characters in the setting currently. Frankly, it's nice to see. When everything is constant grimdark the setting just gets a bit too bleak. There has to be some legit actual good once in awhile to offset it imo.
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#7
Aothaine

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Yeah I can see that in the exchange as well. :D In the defense of the Custode though they are trained to have zero errors. Knowing that when they are on a mission the error of that time given could cost them all their lives. But yeah... Gman is a boss for sure. I really like him. :D


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#8
Daemon Prince Marbas

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I see it both ways. I like that Guilliman sided with the human but at the same time Guilliman has a recorded flaw of being pompous and throwing his weight around everywhere. I think he was showing some unnecessary bias in this scene. I think the Custodian and Guilliman both said things that were uncalled for.

#9
Prot

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The Adeptus Custode just remains silent but it seemed almost as if Guilliman did not like the Adeptus Custodes or maybe was disappointed in them for turtling up and not helping the Imperium. 

 

Just my interpretation here. Based on the other sources of material with Guilliman and the Custodes, he's had some really ugly moments with them. He's flat out told them that by Proxy he IS the Emperor and they will take orders from him...  which didn't go over well. 

 

Basically since the tribrunal on Terra, the Custodes finally 'elected' to leave the underground of the palace, but Guilliman was furious for how long it took them to get out, and be among the front lines. Eventually they would spread their numbers out amongst the campaigns.

 

Personal opinion here: I still think Guilliman learned some incredibly ugly stuff after his shocking awakening. The specific conversation he had with the Emperor I think left a very bitter taste, and a sense of realization fully swept over him. To the Emperor, I believe he realizes he is a tool. The Custodes were his children.  There may be a sense of resentment in that realization. 

 

Again that's just my thoughts based on all the Custodes/end of 7th ed/ Guilliman novels. We will never know what truly passed between Guillman and the Emperor, and I believe it is a dark discussion that Guilliman will hold secret as long as he lives.


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#10
Black Blow Fly

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I think people are reading too much into it.

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#11
Ishagu

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It's an interesting exchange for sure. There are tidbits that explain Guilliman's thinking, and the trust (or lack of) between him and the Custodes, but I don't want to go into details as TC hasn't read those parts yet.

TC, if I was you I'd just power on with the books. The DI novels see great, but there are others worth reading too, such as "The Great Work"
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#12
Aothaine

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Personal opinion here: I still think Guilliman learned some incredibly ugly stuff after his shocking awakening. The specific conversation he had with the Emperor I think left a very bitter taste, and a sense of realization fully swept over him. To the Emperor, I believe he realizes he is a tool. The Custodes were his children.  There may be a sense of resentment in that realization. 

 

Interesting point. I still have a lot of lore to read for sure. Did the Emperor actually view the Custodes as his personal legion or children? From what I've read so far it seemed to me that the Emperor even viewed himself as a tool. He never wanted to be worshiped but wanted to make sure that humanity was reunited and protected. I could be missing large pieces of the puzzle but that is what I think so far.

 

It's an interesting exchange for sure. There are tidbits that explain Guilliman's thinking, and the trust (or lack of) between him and the Custodes, but I don't want to go into details as TC hasn't read those parts yet.

TC, if I was you I'd just power on with the books. The DI novels see great, but there are others worth reading too, such as "The Great Work"

 

I'm trying to stick to books mainly dealing with the new storyline right now. Is "The Great Work" based in this 41k timeline? If so, I will add it to the list for sure. I'm slowly working my way through the books I know are more recent. Just finished Ashes of Prospero a week ago. Really good read and portrays the current mindset of the Space Wolves after Guilliman's return and the flood of Primaris. 

 

Well. I thank everyone for going along with this topic for sure. I know I'm behind the times when it comes to reading all this lore. I'll catch up eventually I imagine. 



#13
Ishagu

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The Great Work takes place after Dark Imperium part 2

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#14
Aothaine

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The Great Work takes place after Dark Imperium part 2

 

Thank you for the update! It is in the list for sure now! :D






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