8th Ed Sister Dex FAQ

[Slasher956]

 

 

 

 

First off I don't believe that GW will apply an order restriction for acts of faith.

Looks like one for the FAQ:

-If a unit with a simulacrum imperialis uses a miracle dice, can a second unit without a simulacrum also use a miracle dice later in the same phase?

If GW answers your question as NO, then we'll lose any control over acts of faith. Our opponents will have full control to dictate when and for which units we can use our signature rule. Just imagine if the opponent got to pick which doctrine the SM player was using during the turn.

I'm positive the answer is that if any unit performs an Act of Faith, only a unit with a Similacrum can perform an additional AoF that phase.

* 1 Act of Faith per phase

* Once per phase, a Similacrum allows a unit to perform an Act of Faith even if one has already been performed that phase

So order is:

-Have you performed an AoF this phase?

a. No - may perform an AoF

b. Yes - Does the unit have a Similacrum?

-- No - cannot perform an AoF this phase

-- Yes - Have you used a Similacrum to perform an additional AoF?

---- No - may perform an additional AoF this phase

---- Yes - cannot use the Similacrum to perform a third AoF

Hmm, that really removed the value of the Simulacrum in my eyes. At least for defensive benefits.

Seems the more we look at the rules and poke holes in them, the more the army starts to look woefully one dimensional.

It’s more that every unit that can take a simulacrum will kinda have to....and if you don’t then there’s no point in cherubs because the first AoF will always be either a character/ repent is / seraphim/zeraphim

[CaptainMarsh]

I don't think that is how the Simulacrum is meant to be used or interpreted. The way I read it, if you have the Simulacrum, you can perform an Act of Faith. If five units have the Simulacrum, you could in theory perform five additional Acts of Faith per phase. In theory. Of course Miracle Dice aren't so common that I can see that being a good use of them most of the time. This comes down to how one reads "...even if one has been performed this phase." RAI I read this as meaning if you have the Simulacrum, you can perform an Act of Faith. It is clarifying that you may do so even if you have already performed an Act of Faith which is normally once per phase. I do not believe it is limiting yu to a grand total of two AoF a turn.

Unlike Miracle Dice use however, that one is more up in the air to me and I think could use an FAQ. Same with whether or not you have to use your normal Act of Faith before any Simulacrum granted ones.

Acts of Faith and Miracle Dice are very broad systems with a lot of mechanical power behind them. The limiting factor is generation of dice (which requires certain army constructions, points, and success to really start to push) and Act of Faith limitation (which requires points to solve). This comes with a tradeoff of spending points, slots, CP, and favoring certain Orders for the system.

EDIT:  Actually, there is no debate. The ability actually reads: "If a model in this unit has the Simulacrum Imperialis then once per phase you can perform an Act of Faith for this unit, even if you have already performed one or more Acts of Faith this phase."

So it already says "...one or more", meaning you can perform a third, a fourth, etc. Act of Faith

Edited December 6, 2019 by CaptainMarsh

[ERJAK]

Not sure if it's been discussed but what constituets being killed by an aof unit? Does it have to be the last wound of the unit? Any wound? All wounds?

[Raven1]

Not sure if it's been discussed but what constituets being killed by an aof unit? Does it have to be the last wound of the unit? Any wound? All wounds?

I would eat it's a unit with the Act if Faith special ability.

[ERJAK]

 

Not sure if it's been discussed but what constituets being killed by an aof unit? Does it have to be the last wound of the unit? Any wound? All wounds?

I would eat it's a unit with the Act if Faith special ability.

Well, i mean duh. But can I have a battle sister do one wound with her chainsword and then have a mortifier kill the rest of the unit and then that counts?

 

Can I have a knight do 10 wounds to a rhino and then a battle sister with a crack grenade do one and then that counts?

 

If one of these works, why not the other? It's the same distribution of wounds, just a different order.

 

Or does the unit have to be ENTIRELY killed by a unit with the AoF special rule?

[ERJAK]

 

 

 

 

 

First off I don't believe that GW will apply an order restriction for acts of faith.

Looks like one for the FAQ:

-If a unit with a simulacrum imperialis uses a miracle dice, can a second unit without a simulacrum also use a miracle dice later in the same phase?

If GW answers your question as NO, then we'll lose any control over acts of faith. Our opponents will have full control to dictate when and for which units we can use our signature rule. Just imagine if the opponent got to pick which doctrine the SM player was using during the turn.

I'm positive the answer is that if any unit performs an Act of Faith, only a unit with a Similacrum can perform an additional AoF that phase.

* 1 Act of Faith per phase

* Once per phase, a Similacrum allows a unit to perform an Act of Faith even if one has already been performed that phase

So order is:

-Have you performed an AoF this phase?

a. No - may perform an AoF

b. Yes - Does the unit have a Similacrum?

-- No - cannot perform an AoF this phase

-- Yes - Have you used a Similacrum to perform an additional AoF?

---- No - may perform an additional AoF this phase

---- Yes - cannot use the Similacrum to perform a third AoF

Hmm, that really removed the value of the Simulacrum in my eyes. At least for defensive benefits.

Seems the more we look at the rules and poke holes in them, the more the army starts to look woefully one dimensional.

It’s more that every unit that can take a simulacrum will kinda have to....and if you don’t then there’s no point in cherubs because the first AoF will always be either a character/ repent is / seraphim/zeraphim

I would argue that no matter how either of these works you probably won't take simulacrums on most battle sister squads, and even in the strongest possible interpretations of these rules you'd only take cherubs on retributors or triple Melta BSS.

 

Defensive MD were always gak. Any shot that does less than D6 damage (or that would otherwise kill an exorcist/rhino, etc outright) isn't worth wasting MD on regardless of how many AoFs you get.

 

Miracle dice are a potent, scarce resource and should be used for damage rolls and charge rolls predominately; with everything else being situationally specific edge cases.

[Raven1]

@ERJAK, I would say that the unit that removes the last wound counts. From X to 1 wound isn't dead/destroyed/removed from X to 0 is dead/destroyed/removed.

 

So unit with AoF brings an unit from X to 0.

 

The activation order is important. Like smiting with Thousand Sons. They ignore the +1 it doesn't go away. So if you smite with a couple TS psykers and then a non-TS psyker the non-TS psyker has to pass the more difficult smite. If the non-TS psyker sites first and then the TS psykers the smite is passed at the normal rate not the higher difficulty.

 

The same number of casts are attempted but the order in which the psyker is activated and the cast is attempted is important.

[Purifying Tempest]

Has anyone asked what an "Endurant" is?  Arco-flaggelant squad has a "sergeant" profile and option to upgrade - but no points costs at all associated in the book.  It is an option, not a mandatory member.

[Raven1]

Has anyone asked what an "Endurant" is? Arco-flaggelant squad has a "sergeant" profile and option to upgrade - but no points costs at all associated in the book. It is an option, not a mandatory member.

Much like other sergeants it's a single model replacement. Points are the same. If I'm not mistaken it is structured the same in my Thousand Sons codex for Aspiring Sorcerers for rubric marines and twistbrays for Tzaangors.

[Purifying Tempest]

Re-read everything and saw a similar circumstance in the Celestians.  I just also saw the Mortifier/Anchorite thing where both are pointed out in the rear and started scratching my head.  Thanks for putting my head back on correctly!

[CaptainMarsh]

The Anchorite is different since it has a different save. Probably why they felt the need to cost is differently, methinks.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Might not be the best place for it, but anyone else notice the Gemina Superia cost in Chapter Approved?

[MoshJason]

Might not be the best place for it, but anyone else notice the Gemina Superia cost in Chapter Approved?

16, including war gear

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

 

Might not be the best place for it, but anyone else notice the Gemina Superia cost in Chapter Approved?

16, including war gear

 

Instead of 16 plus wargear. Not a huge saving, but still.

[Banjulhu]

Is it intentional that Mortifiers have the Adepta Sororitas keyword but not a related Order keyword?

It seems odd given that other side of the crazy death wish sister's unit, the Repentia, do come with an Order (and the Act of Faith rule).

[Closet Skeleton]

Is it intentional that Mortifiers have the Adepta Sororitas keyword but not a related Order keyword?

 

It seems odd given that other side of the crazy death wish sister's unit, the Repentia, do come with an Order (and the Act of Faith rule).

Repentia are willing penitents on probation, Mortifiers are unwilling ones who have been excommunicated.

[Slasher956]

@ERJAK, I would say that the unit that removes the last wound counts. From X to 1 wound isn't dead/destroyed/removed from X to 0 is dead/destroyed/removed.

 

So unit with AoF brings an unit from X to 0.

 

@Erjack

 

I'd argue that this is covered by the main rulebook FAQ, and is as Raven1 said - when the last model is killed.

 

Q: When is a unit considered to be ‘completely destroyed’ or ‘wiped out’? A: These two terms are used synonymously. A unit is considered to be completely destroyed when the last model in that unit is destroyed (also referred to as slain) or flees.

[ThePenitentOne]

 

 

 

 

 

 

First off I don't believe that GW will apply an order restriction for acts of faith.

Looks like one for the FAQ:

-If a unit with a simulacrum imperialis uses a miracle dice, can a second unit without a simulacrum also use a miracle dice later in the same phase?

If GW answers your question as NO, then we'll lose any control over acts of faith. Our opponents will have full control to dictate when and for which units we can use our signature rule. Just imagine if the opponent got to pick which doctrine the SM player was using during the turn.

I'm positive the answer is that if any unit performs an Act of Faith, only a unit with a Similacrum can perform an additional AoF that phase.

* 1 Act of Faith per phase

* Once per phase, a Similacrum allows a unit to perform an Act of Faith even if one has already been performed that phase

So order is:

-Have you performed an AoF this phase?

a. No - may perform an AoF

b. Yes - Does the unit have a Similacrum?

-- No - cannot perform an AoF this phase

-- Yes - Have you used a Similacrum to perform an additional AoF?

---- No - may perform an additional AoF this phase

---- Yes - cannot use the Similacrum to perform a third AoF

Hmm, that really removed the value of the Simulacrum in my eyes. At least for defensive benefits.

Seems the more we look at the rules and poke holes in them, the more the army starts to look woefully one dimensional.

It’s more that every unit that can take a simulacrum will kinda have to....and if you don’t then there’s no point in cherubs because the first AoF will always be either a character/ repent is / seraphim/zeraphim

I would argue that no matter how either of these works you probably won't take simulacrums on most battle sister squads, and even in the strongest possible interpretations of these rules you'd only take cherubs on retributors or triple Melta BSS.

 

Defensive MD were always gak. Any shot that does less than D6 damage (or that would otherwise kill an exorcist/rhino, etc outright) isn't worth wasting MD on regardless of how many AoFs you get.

 

Miracle dice are a potent, scarce resource and should be used for damage rolls and charge rolls predominately; with everything else being situationally specific edge cases.

 

 

You might be right about "most people," or some people, but I plan to give a simulacrum to every unit that can take one, and I plan to burn so many miracle dice that my opponent is still hearing prayers two days after the battle. 

 

Using dice defensively, I expect for me, will happen strategically- just like offensive dice. If overwatch takes out someone who could help win the hand to hand, guess what? It didn't.

 

Heavy weapons are only allowed to die in range of hospitallers, and hospitallers aren't allowed to die. 

[ERJAK]

@ERJAK, I would say that the unit that removes the last wound counts. From X to 1 wound isn't dead/destroyed/removed from X to 0 is dead/destroyed/removed.

 

So unit with AoF brings an unit from X to 0.

 

The activation order is important. Like smiting with Thousand Sons. They ignore the +1 it doesn't go away. So if you smite with a couple TS psykers and then a non-TS psyker the non-TS psyker has to pass the more difficult smite. If the non-TS psyker sites first and then the TS psykers the smite is passed at the normal rate not the higher difficulty.

 

The same number of casts are attempted but the order in which the psyker is activated and the cast is attempted is important.

Unforunately it's not GW answering so this is all just speculation. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts though.

[Raven1]

But it's not speculation or just like my opinion man.

 

Codex Adeptus Sororitas pg 75 Vengeance: A unit from your army with the Acts of Faith ability destroys an enemy unit.

 

BRB of 181

If a model's wounds are reduced to 0, it is either slain or destroyed and removed from play.

 

So if a Canoness does 1 point of damage to a rhino and it loses one wound it is neither slain nor destroyed ergo no miracle dice (MD) is gained, and then a Mortifier reduces the rhino to 0 wounds it is then slain or destroyed. Again no miracle dice is gained because Mortifier does not have the Acts of Faith ability.

 

If an Imperial Knight does 9 damage to a rhino resulting in 9 wounds the rhino is not slain or destroyed. If a Battle Sister than uses a krak grenade. Doing 1 damage to the rhino resulting in 1 wound it is then slain or destroyed. A MD is gained because the unit who reduced the rhino to 0 wounds slaying/destroying the unit had the Acts of Faith special ability and therefore the special rule is activated.

[Lemondish]

But it's not speculation or just like my opinion man.

 

Codex Adeptus Sororitas pg 75 Vengeance: A unit from your army with the Acts of Faith ability destroys an enemy unit.

 

BRB of 181

If a model's wounds are reduced to 0, it is either slain or destroyed and removed from play.

 

So if a Canoness does 1 point of damage to a rhino and it loses one wound it is neither slain nor destroyed ergo no miracle dice (MD) is gained, and then a Mortifier reduces the rhino to 0 wounds it is then slain or destroyed. Again no miracle dice is gained because Mortifier does not have the Acts of Faith ability.

 

If an Imperial Knight does 9 damage to a rhino resulting in 9 wounds the rhino is not slain or destroyed. If a Battle Sister than uses a krak grenade. Doing 1 damage to the rhino resulting in 1 wound it is then slain or destroyed. A MD is gained because the unit who reduced the rhino to 0 wounds slaying/destroying the unit had the Acts of Faith special ability and therefore the special rule is activated.

Open and shut. Nice, simple breakdown.

[Raven1]

I would point out that it certainly incentivizes a player for activating units in a certain order. So as to heavily wound one unit and finish it off with an AoF unit in either shooting or combat and certainly to finish it off before the morale phase Edited December 10, 2019 by Raven1

[brother carc]

 

 

Might not be the best place for it, but anyone else notice the Gemina Superia cost in Chapter Approved?

 

16, including war gear

Instead of 16 plus wargear. Not a huge saving, but still.

Is it worth bringing a single gemina just to run around, die and earn you a miracle die then?

[tvih]

 

Is it worth bringing a single gemina just to run around, die and earn you a miracle die then?

Just for that purpose I'd say no, considering it may just give your opponent extra victory points which I'd consider more valuable than a MD.

[brother carc]

 

Is it worth bringing a single gemina just to run around, die and earn you a miracle die then?

 

Just for that purpose I'd say no, considering it may just give your opponent extra victory points which I'd consider more valuable than a MD.

Well no, not JUST for that purpose. She is still a 2W 3A character so she can throw Krak grenades, possibly tie things up (though what I don’t know, LOL). I mean, I get what you’re saying but her (their) points have gone down pretty consistently to the point where they’re now cheaper than Zephyrim...

 

IS there a points cost at which they’d be viable? Or would they not be worth it even if we were getting them for free?