8th Ed Sister Dex FAQ

[Slasher956]

@Slasher956

 

The first question, about Dominon Vanguard, may be irrelevant. Vanguard moves happen before the first battle round begins and IIRC (Codex isn't nearby atm), you don't roll for your Miracle Dice until the start of the battle round/turn (ability dependent).

They've sorted the wording out from the beta dex*... its at the start of the 1st battle round before the 1st player turn.  This means that as it has the same timing as MD generation you get to chose the order.

 

 

*beta was just before the 1st turn....

 

 

Edit - the ones I'm not are needed are in italics

Edited January 15, 2020 by Slasher956

[Slasher956]

Just playing round with the 'Combat Roster' on WHC site.... and Mortifiers are 1-6!

 

....ok combat roster only deals with power level... but still!

[EmperorGTank]

So...are we ever getting an FAQ for our codex? Or do you think it will release once all the models are up for preorder?

[Slasher956]

The codex was only released mid Jan* ....it’s about a month before a faq is released

 

*the November army box was a pre-release sale remember ....

[Slasher956]

FAQ UP

 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/b3e1e77d.pdf

[Purifying Tempest]

I read the FAQ and laughed.  It was actually pretty boring and pedestrian.  Mortifiers in squads of 4 max (this is probably the best clarification), fast rolling with extra MD is illegal, and hey, they fixed the Canoness in the box by upping her cost a bit more!  Don't think it really changed anything or crushed anything particularly good the codex has.  It really feels like a "move along, move along" FAQ :D

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Ironically, this is how FAQs and Errata should be, rather than a complete rewrite after the event.

 

But some people will want a load of balance rewrites, others salty that their book is already 'invalidated'.

 

GW can't win sometimes.

[ValourousHeart]

However that Designer's note messed up my understanding of the game.

 

I thought for the shooting phase you select a unit, select a model in that unit, select a weapon that model is armed with and select a target within range and then resolve that attack with the models BS and the weapon profile.

 

And that Fast Dice was for when you had multiple members of the squad that all had the same profile, and were all armed with the same weapon or a weapon with a similar profile (bolt pistol and bolt gun) to give you away of speeding up the shooting phase.

 

So under the normal rules you would select a dominion squad, then select a dominion with a storm bolter, then select the storm bolter, then select a target within 12 inches, and then resolve the attack using BS 3+ with Rapid Fire 2 which has 4 shots within 12 inches.

Roll 4 to hit dice, grab the successes and roll to wound, then your opponent grabs those successes and rolls saves and finally removes casualties.

This process would then repeat for the next model in the squad.

 

But after reading that designer's note it would appear that Fast Dice is referring to a single model firing a single weapon in the shooting phase if that weapon happens to have a type with a number greater than 1.

 

Is that how you understood that all this time?

[BluejayJunior]

That is the way that I have always understood it. In your example, the sister with a stormbolter is making 4 individual attacks, one at a time. Not one attack with 4 hit rolls. Fast dice is rolling all those shots at once and also rolling all the other shots in the squad with the same BS and profile at the same time. 

[taikishi]

RAW, you:

Select unit

Select all targets and all weapons being used - e.g. bolters at the grots, flamer at the boys in range, lascannon at the Battle wagon

Choose a model to attack with

Make first of X attack rolls with that model

If it hits, make a to-wound roll

If it wounds, the target's owner chooses a model to make a save

If the save fails, roll damage if necessary otherwise apply damage until it kills the model or all damage is applied (whichever happens first)

 

Make next attack, if any, with same model

Repeat process until all attacks have been made by all models in a unit or until selected targets no longer exist

 

Fast rolling is "ten bolters into these grots. That's 20 shots .." rolling all of those bolter hits as one dice pool, wounds as a second, saves as a third (by their owner), damage as a fourth.

Edited January 31, 2020 by taikishi

[Slasher956]

So using the faq and the rule book can I change 1 or 4 dice if I use a storm bolter and short range?...which is what we asked! Edited January 31, 2020 by Slasher956

[taikishi]

1 die, unless the unit is within 6" of the Triumph of St. Katherine and/or the unit has a Similacrum Imperialis.

 

If the unit has a Similacrum OR is within 6" of the Triumph, you may:

 

a. replace two hit rolls from the same weapon (e.g. Storm Bolter) with Miracle dice

b. replace a hit roll and a wound roll from a single weapon with Miracle dice (or spend a CP to do the same thing)

c. replace a hit wound and a damage roll from a single weapon with Miracle dice (e.g. Meltagun)

d. replace a wound roll and a damage roll from a single weapon with Miracle dice

e. replace two hit rolls from two different weapons with Miracle dice

f. replace a hit roll from weapon A and a wound roll from weapon B with Miracle dice

g. replace a hit roll from weapon A and a damage roll from weapon B with Miracle Dice

h. replace wound rolls from two different weapons with damage dice

i. replace wound rolls from weapon A and damage rolls from weapon B with Miracle Dice

j. replace two damage rolls with Miracle dice

k. replace two armor saves with Miracle dice

l. replace an armor save and an invulnerable save with Miracle dice

m. replace an armor save and a FNP save with Miracle dice

n. replace two invulnerable saves with Miracle dice

o. replace an invunlerable save and a FNP save with Miracle dice

p. replace two FNP saves with Miracle dice

 

With both a Similacrum and the Triumph, increase that to any combination with a maximum of 3. Without a Similacrum and/or the Triumph, a unit can only ever replace ONE DIE when performing an act of faith, unless it's to charge - at which point charging permits both dice to be replaced if you have two Miracle dice to spend on the roll because of how charging works - because you're always rolling 2d6.

 

For your Storm Bolter example:

 

No similarcum/Triumph, replace 1 die

Similacrum OR Triumph, replace 2 dice

Similacrum AND Triumph, replace 3 dice

 

Unless another means comes about to allow you to perform multiple Acts of Faith with a singe unit in a single phase, you can never replace all four dice from a Storm Bolter's shots with Miracle dice.

Edited January 31, 2020 by taikishi

[taikishi]

Because I'm tired of editing the same post over and over, plus it was getting a little TL;DR, this ruling emphasizes one thing:

 

the best expenditure of Miracle Dice is on damage rolls, advance and charge rolls, using 1s on morale, and possibly Deny the Witch rolls depending on how your army is built.

 

Auto-passing a single to-hit roll, a single to-wound roll, or a single saving throw is so low impact  that you have to be drowning in miracle dice AND drowning in ways to spend multiple dice to make it worthwhile to spend them on these three actions.

[MoshJason]

Because I'm tired of editing the same post over and over, plus it was getting a little TL;DR, this ruling emphasizes one thing:

 

the best expenditure of Miracle Dice is on damage rolls, advance and charge rolls, using 1s on morale, and possibly Deny the Witch rolls depending on how your army is built.

 

Auto-passing a single to-hit roll, a single to-wound roll, or a single saving throw is so low impact that you have to be drowning in miracle dice AND drowning in ways to spend multiple dice to make it worthwhile to spend them on these three actions.

That 2 cp strat to make a miracle hit to a miracle woundis so worthless now, that I can't believe A) it's an actual strat, and B ) this was intended? Like, I thought that by virtue of that costing 2 cp pts it had to be such a high impact that miracle dice couldn't have been only 1 hhit for a bs 3+ with reroll 1's army... Edited February 1, 2020 by MoshJason

[Trokair]

While I am glad that the box Canoness is now legal as far as I can see it is now no longer possible to have a plain boltgun armed Canoness (for backfield duties with Retributors/Exorcists).

[CaptainMarsh]

Yeah, pretty stupid overall. Not unexpected though- my last dozen or so games I more or less ignored MD generation mechanics and feel justified in continuing to do so.

[Atrus]

 

Because I'm tired of editing the same post over and over, plus it was getting a little TL;DR, this ruling emphasizes one thing:

 

the best expenditure of Miracle Dice is on damage rolls, advance and charge rolls, using 1s on morale, and possibly Deny the Witch rolls depending on how your army is built.

 

Auto-passing a single to-hit roll, a single to-wound roll, or a single saving throw is so low impact that you have to be drowning in miracle dice AND drowning in ways to spend multiple dice to make it worthwhile to spend them on these three actions.

That 2 cp strat to make a miracle hit to a miracle woundis so worthless now, that I can't believe A) it's an actual strat, and B ) this was intended? Like, I thought that by virtue of that costing 2 cp pts it had to be such a high impact that miracle dice couldn't have been only 1 hhit for a bs 3+ with reroll 1's army...

This was my thinking too.

 

I can only conclude that GW I tended it that way, but with so many people on the internet screaming it the other way, they decided to just go with the flow. /s

 

Just cemented MD into the nice to have if you ever need it, but don't need to waste resources into MD battery category.

[MoshJason]

They will still help bloody rose tremendously, as simulcrums plus a few good miracle dice means gaurenteed ,

10+ inch charges, and can catch your opponent off guard, but, like, it's no longer the: Let me bring a battle sanctum, St Katherine, and a Heroine in the Making to hit 5 a turn. I'd still likely take a sanctum and a Heroine, because it never hurts to have some sixes in your pocket, but Katherine is definitely not worth the 185 pts now.

Edited February 1, 2020 by MoshJason

[taikishi]

Charges are the exception, not the rule. You can spend 1 or 2MD as one AoF on a charge because charging is rolling two dice simultaneously, not fast rolling. It even says as much in the FAQ.

[MoshJason]

Charges are the exception, not the rule. You can spend 1 or 2MD as one AoF on a charge because charging is rolling two dice simultaneously, not fast rolling. It even says as much in the FAQ.

Right -- no one's saying that's that's not it -- just that charges are now one of the few places it's worth it to have them?

[Banjulhu]

While I am glad that the box Canoness is now legal as far as I can see it is now no longer possible to have a plain boltgun armed Canoness (for backfield duties with Retributors/Exorcists).

Looking at the images of the model coming out it may well be that it was always intended that it could not be armed with a normal boltgun given the ranged weapon options shown off were a plasma pistol, inferno-pistol, condemner boltgun and bolt pistol.

 

The sisters are effectively an utterly new army even though they are not so it makes sense that their rules follow the same 8th edition static loadout paradigm as the Primaris Marines, Death Guard and Thousand Sons characters.

[taikishi]

 

Charges are the exception, not the rule. You can spend 1 or 2MD as one AoF on a charge because charging is rolling two dice simultaneously, not fast rolling. It even says as much in the FAQ.

Right -- no one's saying that's that's not it -- just that charges are now one of the few places it's worth it to have them?

 

 

What I'm saying is you don't need Similacrums for charges; the rules for charging let you replace one or both dice as a single Act of Faith, without need for a Similacrum. The only other Act of Faith you can perform as a charging unit during the Charge phase is making saves against Overwatch fire. You might be confusing Similacrums with the cherubs, which let you remove them from play to get a Miracle Die that has to be used that phase by that unit.

 

In addition, the Charge phase is a separate phase from the Fight phase, so performing an AoF to charge doesn't prohibit you from performing an AoF with the unit in the Fight phase.

[MoshJason]

 

 

 

Charges are the exception, not the rule. You can spend 1 or 2MD as one AoF on a charge because charging is rolling two dice simultaneously, not fast rolling. It even says as much in the FAQ.

Right -- no one's saying that's that's not it -- just that charges are now one of the few places it's worth it to have them?

What I'm saying is you don't need Similacrums for charges; the rules for charging let you replace one or both dice as a single Act of Faith, without need for a Similacrum. The only other Act of Faith you can perform as a charging unit during the Charge phase is making saves against Overwatch fire. You might be confusing Similacrums with the cherubs, which let you remove them from play to get a Miracle Die that has to be used that phase by that unit.

 

In addition, the Charge phase is a separate phase from the Fight phase, so performing an AoF to charge doesn't prohibit you from performing an AoF with the unit in the Fight phase.

Simulcrums let you use multiple acts of faith -- so you can get a canoness and her nearby squads into the melee, instead of just the canoness.

 

I've been using Celestians with a cherub and a simulcrums, and turn 2 the Canoness uses miracle dice to make a miracle charge, and then the Celestians pop the cherub to gain a 5 or a 6, and use whatever's left to follow along.

[Slasher956]

In the missions where you can tailor your deck I can see sisters players removing the AoF tied ones more than before which is kinda silly....here let’s ignore my factions uniqueness .....

[Lemondish]

In the missions where you can tailor your deck I can see sisters players removing the AoF tied ones more than before which is kinda silly....here let’s ignore my factions uniqueness .....

I don't understand why they would. All this did is clarify how many dice you can replace in one Act. It did not change anything about the number of Acts you could perform. Were people legitimately trying to argue that, not only was fast rolling an option for replacing multiple dice, but that doing so counted as multiple Acts for purposes of scoring those cards?

Edited February 1, 2020 by Lemondish