Rising Sons Samurai Marines...(Mis)Adventures in 3D Printing

[SITZKRIEG!]

My previous attempt at a historical conversion of Primaris marines into Polish Winged Hussars went well enough (link here) so I figured I'd give another famous warrior group a shot. In the months since, I got my first 3d printer (a resin SLA Elegoo Mars) and have been experimenting mainly with figs for an RPG campaign I'm in. A whole bunch of high quality primaris style 3D model uploads are on thingiverse so I decided I'd try my hand at a fully virtual conversion and settled on a Samurai motif. I suspect the general familiarity with samurai armor is pretty high so I won't post pics of historical resources used for inspiration like I did with my Winged Hussar project. The main samurai components that sparked my interest were uploaded by indignentshrew on Thingiverse (link here). I'm still resizing the various parts for primaris and deciding on the various design flourishes I plan to add but this is the initial mock up of my first Rising Sons Intercessor Sergeant. Please note that I can't 3D model anything more than a simple cube or sphere so am limited to the more traditional physical conversion techniques of cutting/pasting from existing sources (3d models in this case instead of from my bitz box!).

 

It's hard to make out but the icon on his chest aquilla and on his sashimono banner is the Cyberpunk 2077 Samurai logo. I have serious doubts as to both (especially the chest) printing correctly so I do expect to adapt them this week. Additionally, I'm not entirely happy with the size of the sashimono so will likely enlarge that as well as reposition the chainsword katana a bit more at an angle. In case it wasn't obvious, my primaris inspiration for this pose was the recent event exclusive Lieutenant Amulius figure that I also used to convert my Lt. Googely Eyes Winged Hussar.

Edited December 5, 2019 by SITZKRIEG!

[Master Umbra]

About time someone embarked in this adventure! The aesthetic is spot on! That is what WS should have been IMO (I know they are more Mongolian-themed, but oh well).

Keep it up!

[SITZKRIEG!]

Thanks! I wanted to add the word "n00b" in the thread subject to indicate my 3d modelling level of expertise but I ran out of space. I worked on reposing/resizing a few parts last night after posting and came up with the following. I'm also still trying to figure out which free program I have best displays the 3d model for viewing in thread as I use multiple programs for different reasons.

 

I redid the sashimono to significantly bigger and made the icon relief deeper so as to hopefully make sure it will be visible after both printing and priming/painting. I slightly reposed the sword hand to be more at an angle but I'm limited by the pommel as I don't want it clipping into the wrist. The helmet is fused a bit with the chest but I don't expect that to be visible unlike with the sword hand. I also redid the chest and removed the cyberpunk logo that I didn't think stood a chance of printing properly and replaced it with an oni mask instead of the normal generic skull you'd find on a marine chest aquilla.

 

At this point, I think I'm satisfied with the pose and just need to decide a few things like how much normal equipment I plan to add (like a bolt pistol holster, belt pouches, purity seals, and a bolt rifle for example) and also how to divide up the model for 3d printing. I've successfully printed about a half dozen models since getting the printer (with about another dozen or so misprinted or ones that I was simply just not happy with the overall design I came up with) and those were all done in one piece. I might try to instead print this model in one solid piece as well as part it out individually like a traditional GW marine. The benefit to the former is solidity but it would require likely more supports as I couldn't individually pose the parts to print out optimally. The chainsword teeth on both sides of the sword for example means that each individual tooth has to be supported separately on one side of the sword otherwise it won't print out correctly (or worse yet fall off and leave tiny loose fragments of cured resin in my vat that scratch up the FEP film!).

Edited December 5, 2019 by SITZKRIEG!

[infyrana]

Have you test printed any of it yet? Though I've not modelled, I have used 3d printers (pla) to print some stuff. The sort of detail on the chest you have couldn't be achieved at all in pla, but I have hopes for resin. Doing it in sections might be better for several reasons. As for purity seals and pouches, I'd recommend just using sprue left overs.

 

I'm keen to see how you get on, so good luck :)

[SITZKRIEG!]

No, no printing as of yet. If the weather cooperates and isnt' too frigid, I'll run my next batch (in an unheated but insulated basement) including my first attempt at the Rising Son sergeant this weekend. Until then, I'm still tweaking the 3D file. Even with a resin printer, I had doubts that the chest icon would have resolved well enough to withstand both a priming and printing. I'll be checking my bits box tonight to see what flourishes I can feasibly put on him and whether I have a spare bolt rifle (probably with a hand attached that I'll have to replace with a grip). I'm typically a fan of practical WYSIWIG marines*.

 

*yes.. I fully comprehend the dichotomy of using the word practical in regards to steroid superfreak soldiers in powered armor wielding chainsaws. It's a relative term!

[Kolgrim DeathHowl]

Looks like a promising start! Looking forward to seeing them evolve further!

[SITZKRIEG!]

Thanks! I've decided to try and print the marine out in pieces as I've never done that before and I wanted to keep the printing time reasonable. Normally, I print at 50 micron layer height but I figured I'd try 20 microns for the second time with this. In order to get a reasonable print time, I split him up so the machine doesn't spend a half day doing this. As it stands, this will still take 7+ hours and be an overnight print for me. If it doesn't work out then I'll redo it at 50 microns and preassembled except for the backpack and sword. Regardless, here is the layout that I'll be using in a few minutes after I clean the vat and mix the resin.

 

Edited December 8, 2019 by SITZKRIEG!

[SITZKRIEG!]

Well, it took a few days of printing due to misprints as well as another couple of days in order to have enough sunshine to post cure the model parts but I finally printed and assembled my first Rising Sons primaris marine. I printed him out bigger (closer to primarch size than primaris) in order to see how the details resolved and overall I'm happy with the results. The actual color of the resin FWIW is a bit lighter than in the size comparison pic below (and much lighter than the additional solo pics) as I increased the contrast to reduce glare and better show the details hopefully.

I printed him out in pieces and assembled him as you would a normal marine but I think the next rescaled version I'll attempt to print at the "correct" size. I do see some things that I want to change though to make sure the model will be durable enough to see play on the tabletop potentially. You may notice that he isn't using a chainsword katana as I had many problems trying to get that to print correctly with the teeth on both sides of the sword so I switched it to a power katana instead. I suppose that will necessitate a promotion to Lieutenant as well. Additionally I turned the sword inward for stability reasons as the separately printed parts left a rather fragile wrist; that shouldn't be an issue with the one piece model though but I would like to hear whether the sword position is better like this.

I also had a misprint where the supports weren't solid enough on the exhausts of the backpack so I took the opportunity to redo that as well since the Cyberpunk Oni symbol was too fine to survive priming printing. I'm still not happy with the overall dimensions of the back banner though and will likely redo it again with the rescale. I'm leaning towards using the sashimono style banner but redoing it as a traditional 2nd edition 40k T-shaped sergeant banner. I'll have to thicken up the parts significantly as even at primarch scale (52mm to the top of the head) they're quite fragile. I'm not sure what icon I'll use (aquilla? raptor? oni head?) as well and wouldn't mind some feedback on all of the above. Here are the other pics from different angles.

 

 

[ranulf the revenant]

I think that looks pretty cool already

[SITZKRIEG!]

Thanks! I've done a mockup of what the next will look like. I've kept the repositioned power katana, redid the banner to a mix of 40k 2nd ed style and traditional sashimono, and thickened up potential problematic areas like the helmet horns to survive printing at smaller scale.

 

For some reason, the better looking viewer doesn't show the banner detail at all.

[infyrana]

Looks great!  Very impressed when I compare it to the 3d printing I've had done.  I know there's a lot of issues surrounding placement of the object to be printed when done in PLA (not resin) whether it's on its top, bottom, flat side or otherwise.  With this in mind, has printing the chainsword at different angels produced (or would it) any difference?

 

Regarding the katana sword handle and the half moon on the banner, I wonder if it's been a case of making them too finely detailed and actually a bit too small / thin?  The handle specifically looks like it could be a tiny bit bigger given the size of the blade.

 

Can't wait to see it once you've primed it, to see how much of the shoulder detail you've managed to maintain (ie if it could be picked out with washes).

[SITZKRIEG!]

Looks great!  Very impressed when I compare it to the 3d printing I've had done.  I know there's a lot of issues surrounding placement of the object to be printed when done in PLA (not resin) whether it's on its top, bottom, flat side or otherwise.  With this in mind, has printing the chainsword at different angels produced (or would it) any difference?

 

Regarding the katana sword handle and the half moon on the banner, I wonder if it's been a case of making them too finely detailed and actually a bit too small / thin?  The handle specifically looks like it could be a tiny bit bigger given the size of the blade.

 

Can't wait to see it once you've primed it, to see how much of the shoulder detail you've managed to maintain (ie if it could be picked out with washes).

Thanks. Printing the sword does make a difference but unfortunately it only shifts the problem somewhere else on the 3d model. I tried three different configurations/layouts for the chainsword and the issue is that it has fine teeth on both sides of the blade. With resin printing, that means that at best one side needs a very tiny almost hair like support (I use 0.08mm tip supports) on each and every tooth tip. My first attempt had a failure at the tip of the sword because I used such fragile supports so as not to obliterate the detail and it failed (the pommel without a blade behind the backpack in my pic of misprints). When I tried a second time, it wasn't angled perfectly and the upper teeth looked like worn down nubs instead of sharp (the second flat print). My third attempt had the upper teeth print fine as I printed it at a steeper angle but the lower ones looked too enveloped by the slightly thicker supports necessary to keep it stable. I fully admit that I could have used that last one though if I just trimmed off the teeth on the back side and didn't worry about them but at that point I figured I'd try the power katana instead (whcih also failed the first time as I didn't support the tip with a medium support so as not to damage it). I suppose that I could have sliced the chainsword in half and printed it directly onto the bed to glue them back later but I didn't think of that until afterwards.

 

Regarding the power katana, I noticed that my first attempt was a bit small and thin on the blade for my liking so I enlarged the blade in thickness significantly (but only about 15% iirc in length). I'm not a 3d modeller myself so I'm using a cruder box select for individual polygons to batch enlarge. I neglected to include the hand guard (not sure if that's what you're referring to or if that is the technicaly name) in the thickening process and I agree that it does look a bit small in that regard. I've already prepped the file for printing for v2.0 but I will change it for the next model that will have a different pose.

 

I too am curious about the armor detail. I had very little hope that they'd resolve deep enough given how shallow the hex pattern on the shoulder pads and hip plates was but they did technically show up on the shoulders. I'm guessing that they won't survive priming/painting though. For the banner, it was definitely too thin. It's been a learning experience for me in trying to translate what looks good on a "truescale" 3d model and what is needed practically for a tabletop model. The icon on the banner is actually this:

 

 

It was both too fine in detail with those tiny wisps as well as too thin and didn't extrude out of the banner far enough (that part was 100% my fault). Even though this next model will technically be about 75% the size of the previous one, the banner space is almost double so I'm hoping that by protruding the now bigger icon out probably twice as far that it will work. *fingers crossed*

[Kolgrim DeathHowl]

Looking good so far!!

[Fajita Fan]

Those shoulder, thigh plates, and sword would make great solo pieces to glue to regular marines. I tried to print katanas on my FDM printer at work for AT scale Cerastus knights but they didn’t come out good.

[SITZKRIEG!]

Thanks to both of you for the kind words. No actual update over this weekend as unfortunately I ran out of resin and will be placing a reorder later today and it won't arrive until midweek at best. He's ready to go though for his 12 hour (!!!) print at 20 microns. Usually, I print figs at 50 microns but I wanted to see the first fig done at max quality as a comparison for future ones. The print also takes a long time as I'm printing him in one piece instead of separating the backpack.

 

[mel_danes]

If you tilt him back 30 degrees some of those supports won't be needed.

I'm looking forward to your results.

[SITZKRIEG!]

If you tilt him back 30 degrees some of those supports won't be needed.

I'm looking forward to your results.

Thanks! Definitely with future prints I plan on tilting the models back. I was just worried about supporting certain parts (like the helmet horns) that don't need supports if printed vertically. The biggest benefit would be in print time as this fully vertical model took 13 1/2 hours to print at 20 microns. Future ones I plan to do at 50microns and tilted as you suggested.

 

I finally got around to printing the one piece Rising Son marine and the results are definitely interesting. I resized the model from the previously printed one to 85% but it looks visually like it's closer to 66%!!

 

There are a couple of reasons that could contribute to that seeming discrepancy in size. The first is that previously I printed the parts separately so the little gaps with glue could increase the size of the final model whereas I definitely overlapped them when combined it all digitally. Second, resin does shrink both with printing and temperature and the ambient temperature was 10-15 degrees below my previous print that was done during a relative winter heat wave in my area. It's supposed to only be a 1-2% but maybe it's more. Additionally, this was done with a slightly different resin (same manufacturer but now with an "ABS-like" moniker added to it) so maybe that contributed. I virtually measured the model to the top of the hair and the final result is only about 1mm below what I expected; it was supposed to match the Amulius in height but the picture isn't an exact comparison as Amulius is sculpted onto a small 2mm high rubble platform on top of the 40mm base. The final and biggest difference is likely the various proportions in that the official primaris model while better proportioned than normal marines is still far enough from human shaped to make a difference. With my previous 3d printed models, I noticed that I definitely needed to "thicken" models 10-20% to get them to look good on the tabletop versus good on the screen. When I arrange the next marine pose, I'll probably increase the height by 5% and the width/depth by 10% to give them bulk more consistent with the official models.

 

The good news is that at least at first glance I don't see any obvious miscasts. The sword edge is a bit chipped and I had to level out the butt plate as it was edge was a bit curved so I sanded it down. The parts that I was worried about ahead of time like the helmet and chest horns and banner actually came out IMO pretty good. I still have to cure the model (which will probably take a few days given the lack of daytime direct sunlight forecast locally) as well as trim a few more nubs but I did what I could with the rubbery flexible resin without damaging it.

 

 

I don't want to sound like I'm unhappy with the results as I'm not but just wanted to hit the potential issues first in the post. Regardless of the above, I'm actually happy with the size of this first 1pc model even if I plan to change further prints. This particular model actually fits quite well on a 25mm base and makes for a good RPG model as it's more in scale with other figs compared with official primaris.

Edited December 27, 2019 by SITZKRIEG!

[Fajita Fan]

Looks awesome and I'm doing the mental math of how big that katana would be IRL. Have you considered a wakazashi combat knife on his hip?

[SITZKRIEG!]

Thanks! And it would be ridiculously huge! It's on par though with other 40k power weapons for primaris which are similarly sized though and (more importantly) is thick enough to print apparently without too much of an issue. That's a good idea and I'll have to look into it. The source files for the model don't have a wakazashi so I'd have to virtually kitbash one myself with my (lack of!) 3d modelling skills. Basically, I'd end up cutting the blade off at the hand guard, cutting it short, and rejoining it. I know that won't be totally accurate but it's the only way I can get something that is reasonably similar. I'll probably try doing that with the next one. Alternately, I might try and find another 3d model with them still in the scabbard and leave them both on his hip for some variety instead of having the weapon drawn.

[mel_danes]

SITZKRIEG!  Pick up a cheap Resin Nail curing station, for gel nails. They use the same 405 nm light spectrum we need for resin printing.
You can get them for like $25 if you pair it with a solar powered display stand, then you don't even need to turn it manually.
I bought a monster light system for curing, its for parties and can throw monster light, it s wee bit over powered.

Love your work man, inspiring me to do Tyrannic Vets in Primaris scale.
 

[SITZKRIEG!]

Thanks. It's definitely on my want list along with the disposable vats and a spare LCD just in case this one breaks on me. With the holidays and all the spending associated with it, it's more of a long term plan at the moment.

 

Tyrannic Vets sound like a great idea! There are plenty of nid models on thingiverse as well as a wide variety of UM armor bits (along with some decorative Emperor's Children ones) that would make some awesome honor guard style models as well. And that pesky codex issue thing with the Tyrannic Vets isn't an issue anymore with Guilleman around now!

[SITZKRIEG!]

I had some time this weekend and decided to resize the same pose and support structure and reprint the model at 50 microns. I fully admit that this was the easy way out but I figured I'd give it a shot to check out the proportions as well as the more typical 50 micron layer height that I normally print at. At about 6 1/2 hours print time, I'd personally say that the detail and the proportions compared with the official primaris marine are both pretty good though there is a softness on certain parts of the face and aquilla on the more recent print compared with the previous one. We still didn't have any real direct sunshine to speak of with another pair of rainy days so the resin remains a bit rubbery (and wet from the water rinse in the case of the newest print as I took the pics right after!) so it's still a bit hard to make out the details in the pics. After some post curing, it'll be off to painting for the smaller RPG scale and correct scale marine but I think I'll leave the primarch scale print as is. Now I just need to find out what paint scheme I intend to use. I'll definitely do a base of gloss black but I'm not sure of what color highlights and details that I'll end up using.

 

[Kolgrim DeathHowl]

I really dig the conversion looks super cool!!

[Captain Mike]

Looks like you've nailed the scale now?

[SITZKRIEG!]

I really dig the conversion looks super cool!!

 

Thanks!  The hardest part for me now is to not let everyone and myself down with the paint job.  I'm at best a slightly above average painter on my best days.

 

Looks like you've nailed the scale now?

I think I did in terms of matching GW primaris (or at least that particular Lieutenant).  I had to increase the height by 5% and the width/depth by 10% to get the right overall shape. 

 

Hope everyone has a happy new year!  I figured I'd put one final post in for 2019 regarding this project.  I had two (cold!) days of sunlight and was able to post cure the models.  I've been thinking about the paint job a bit more as I wasn't entirely settled on the majority black scheme.  I did some image searches and came across some pics of primarily cosplay red samurai armor and I might go with that instead.  Here is the inspiration link as well as something a bit more GW to give a better idea.  If anyone has any thoughts, let me know.  My alternate scheme would be basically the inverse of the above with a base black and red detail accents along with some occasional gold details.

 

Samurai Cosplay Armor:   http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=B006G