People Opinions on "Upgrade Packs"

[Brother Tholath]

Hi Guys!

 

So for my 2020 challenge, I am going to be starting a HH army.

 

As of now I have the complete BoP set and the BoC, minus the Terminators, Dread and HQs, plus Legion Praetors sets and a few other things.

 

With that, I was wondering what people though about buying the shoulder pads and/or legion helms from FW?

Is it needed?

Does it really add to the army?

Do you just need the shoulder pads for some legions?

 

Opinions and Thoughts welcome, and then once I begin I will look to start a WiP thread (hopefully!!)

[Marshal Rohr]

It absolutely adds a lot of aesthetic uniqueness to your army, but it is 100% unnecessary if you just wanna get playing. I use the veteran fist helmets to make my own Phalanx Warders. Some Legions like the Scars and Dark Angels really benefit from their upgrades, as it differentiates them so much. Others like Alphas and Ultras look great with or without them 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Marshal Rohr

[Slave to Darkness]

All depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go visually. 

[Brother Tholath]

Well I'm going down the Imperial Fists route, and I know that they seem quite "bland" for the normal marines, very regimented. So was thinking even just shoulder pads would help make them pop on the table-top

[Sandlemad]

Not 'needed' by any means - plenty of forces out there with line-standard kit - but they do add a lot of flavour visually.

 

Subjectively I think the helmets and upgrades look best when used a little sparingly, i.e. not every single trooper in your army. Maybe one in three dudes, or one in five. Or for sergeants, specialists and veterans. It makes the interesting bits stand out more as focal points by their semi-scarcity while not compromising the plainer military aesthetic of the heresy. That's not to say you have to do it that way but I think it looks good.

 

That approach mostly applies to heads but I think you could say the same for pauldrons. If you look at the FW art, there's plenty of troopers who simply have the legion icon painted on their shoulder pads, while artificer-crafted pads with the legion icon in relief are sometimes shown as signs of veterancy, leadership or particular honours. Again, no need to follow this and transfers can be fiddly but it's an option.

 

[Noserenda]

Depends, the Heads and Torsos are good sprinkled in as mentioned above but i really like embossed pads, depending on which armour types you are using you can mix in the GW plastic upgrades too with certain loyalist legions which adds a bit more variety and saves a good few pennies! 

[Marshal Rohr]

Something else to consider is using them to make legion 'special units' of your own devising. Not-Destroyers, Specialist Vets, Seekers, Non-Sneaky Recon Dudes with Shotguns. That kind of thing

[Bung]

Personly i love miniature upgrades for my miniatures and as i am started to work on my Fists i bought alot of upgrade stuff.

Terminator Schilds, Deimos Doors from ML Shields - Lasercut Candies, alot of Stuff from Pop goes the Monkey like Terminator Pauldrins, Legion Icons, Sicaran doors and more, alot of stuff for Rhino tanks from Kromlech to make them distinct and modular, Forgeworld Decal Sheets i even found some old metal Fists icons from GW i need to reproduce.

So there is alot you can do which is only limited to you and your wallet.

[Brother Tholath]

Cool thanks for all the tips guys! I'm aiming for about a squad a month (the bro and I will be heading to WW in August time) so I will pick more bits up as I go.

 

For now and to start with, I've grabbed a pack of Shoulder Pads (1 mk3, 1 mk4) and a set of Phalanx Warden Upgrades (As I love these guys an insane amount)

 

With the stuff I have, I think I should be able to get 2 HSS (1 HB and 1 ML) along with a few Tact Squads, and I picked up Pollus as well though FB

[Gederas]

The Shoulder Pads are something I highly recommend unless you want to play with transfers on all your dudes.

 

Since I'm lazy, I'm using shoulders so I don't have to deal with transfers on shoulder pads, because.... yeah.

 

For example: I just bought 6 sets of the Mark III and Mark IV Iron Warriors shoulder pads so I don't have to deal with shoulder pad transfers. Note: I mean six sets EACH, not 3 and 3 :lol:

 

 

Iron Within, Iron Without..... the motivation to apply transfers

Edited December 6, 2019 by Gederas

[infyrana]

Not necessary, but they do add a nice look.  I for one will not be painting or using transfers for my DG, so I've tried to incorporate some of the DG specific shoulder pads, but it gets expensive!  I ended up using my spare should pads on other models which I made from spare bits etc (mkiii/iv/vi).  Turns out I'm some 20 pads short - gonna have to source some more MkIII somewhere!

 

Definitely looks great on HQ models or vets etc.

[Charlo]

I think shoulder pads look excellent and I've slapped them on most Of my guys.

 

Heads I use for veterans, sergeants and special things. Not every Death Guard marine needs a rebreather!

[Vykes]

I kinda am of the opinion that 'it depends' at least a little bit: certain legions I think can benefit from the upgrade kits a little more than others just based on aesthetic and stylistic choice.  But here's the caveat, I also think that legion specific head can be used on a number of legions, not necessarily just the legion in question.  Taking a quick look through Visions of Heresy shows Death Guard and Sons of Horus in particular with a -lot- of variety, the latter of which seemingly draws from about half of the 'legion specific' helms out there. So it depends to some degree just how you want your army to look. 

 

I happen to love my vet squads having unique helmets (and stuff like custodes arms for the leather wrist guards), and then sprinkling them in with sergeants and some other 'key' troopers, along with various third party bare heads.  

 

As for pauldrons, I guess I'm the dark horse here: I really prefer transfers to most of the molded pauldrons.  I just think they can be weathered easier, they also tend to feel a little more natural, and I can vary them more in size and placement then add little additions and adornments or even layer transfers to create something fun and new.  They're just give me a lot more choice and variety in general.  But, if I can't get the transfers (Lookin' at you, EC and all of my Luna Wolves) I'll always snag some raised pauldrons rather than trying to freehand them on.  I know I'm not good enough to keep it consistent.     

[Mogsam]

I started with buying moulded shoulder pads, but I'm firmly in the camp of transfers at this point.

 

Theyre more interesting, they can be used across multiple items and that's before the massive cost difference.

 

That said, I just spent £50 on helmets.

[Bung]

Instead of whole shoulder pads i prefer the insignia from Pop Goes the Monkey

https://www.shapeways.com/product/48XSCNRSB/60x-kings-fist-small-convex-insignias-5mm?optionId=78050908&li=shops

 

They are rather cheap for a set of 60 and can be used with any shoulder pad, or other part of SM armour (I already glued one to a Energy Fist).

I think they give you a good mix of detail, flexibility and cost compared to decals and full shoulder pads.

[Brother Tholath]

Instead of whole shoulder pads i prefer the insignia from Pop Goes the Monkey

https://www.shapeways.com/product/48XSCNRSB/60x-kings-fist-small-convex-insignias-5mm?optionId=78050908&li=shops

 

They are rather cheap for a set of 60 and can be used with any shoulder pad, or other part of SM armour (I already glued one to a Energy Fist).

I think they give you a good mix of detail, flexibility and cost compared to decals and full shoulder pads.

 

Do you have any pics of models using those bits? I had a look at them for pads, but they were the same price. I had missed these

[Bung]

 

 

Instead of whole shoulder pads i prefer the insignia from Pop Goes the Monkey

https://www.shapeways.com/product/48XSCNRSB/60x-kings-fist-small-convex-insignias-5mm?optionId=78050908&li=shops

 

They are rather cheap for a set of 60 and can be used with any shoulder pad, or other part of SM armour (I already glued one to a Energy Fist).

I think they give you a good mix of detail, flexibility and cost compared to decals and full shoulder pads.

Do you have any pics of models using those bits? I had a look at them for pads, but they were the same price. I had missed these

I will do some tomorrow.

[Vykes]

Instead of whole shoulder pads i prefer the insignia from Pop Goes the Monkey

https://www.shapeways.com/product/48XSCNRSB/60x-kings-fist-small-convex-insignias-5mm?optionId=78050908&li=shops

They are rather cheap for a set of 60 and can be used with any shoulder pad, or other part of SM armour (I already glued one to a Energy Fist).

I think they give you a good mix of detail, flexibility and cost compared to decals and full shoulder pads.

Do you have any pics of models using those bits? I had a look at them for pads, but they were the same price. I had missed these

All my Luna Wolves use those shoulder insignias at this point. And the banner is one of their emblems too.

[StrangerOrders]

Instead of whole shoulder pads i prefer the insignia from Pop Goes the Monkey

https://www.shapeways.com/product/48XSCNRSB/60x-kings-fist-small-convex-insignias-5mm?optionId=78050908&li=shops

They are rather cheap for a set of 60 and can be used with any shoulder pad, or other part of SM armour (I already glued one to a Energy Fist).

I think they give you a good mix of detail, flexibility and cost compared to decals and full shoulder pads.

Do you have any pics of models using those bits? I had a look at them for pads, but they were the same price. I had missed these

All my Luna Wolves use those shoulder insignias at this point. And the banner is one of their emblems too.

Man, I don't know why the Wolves look so much better to my eye than the Sons. Such a simple but awesome colour-scheme and it draws great contrast with the red lenses.

Anyhow, to weigh in here. I tend to agree that it varies by Legion, I don't tend to think that widespread custom helms fit on more numerous and rigid Legions when their fluff tends to beat you over the head with how rank-obsessed they are. Word Bearers and Ultras come to mind here, I don't think just anyone gets to have fancy helmets there and there are just so many of the bastards that it seems implausible.

Other legions like the TSons or Wolves on the other hand, I tend to think they look weird without them. Mostly because the Wolves are superstitious as all hell and love to be covered in runes while the Sons specifically build psychic hoods into their custom helms and rock fancy breastplates personally made by Magnus each (which gets kinda funny when you recall their numerical inflation in Inferno).

Then you have Legions like the EC, BA or Salamanders which are really fixated on fancy bling. I tend to get the shoulders for most every EC unit because it seems to me that everyone will be as blingy as possible but rarely use the heads since they are specifically said to be a mark of honour given for great valour. I am at a bit of a loss lately though, since I ran out of transfers and can't free-hand a Palatine Aquilla to save my life.

Then you have Legions like the Scars who don't really seem to give a flying either way.

[Vykes]

**Rabble rabble rabble Great Crusade**

Man, I don't know why the Wolves look so much better to my eye than the Sons. Such a simple but awesome colour-scheme and it draws great contrast with the red lenses.

Anyhow, to weigh in here. I tend to agree that it varies by Legion, I don't tend to think that widespread custom helms fit on more numerous and rigid Legions when their fluff tends to beat you over the head with how rank-obsessed they are. Word Bearers and Ultras come to mind here, I don't think just anyone gets to have fancy helmets there and there are just so many of the bastards that it seems implausible.

Other legions like the TSons or Wolves on the other hand, I tend to think they look weird without them. Mostly because the Wolves are superstitious as all hell and love to be covered in runes while the Sons specifically build psychic hoods into their custom helms and rock fancy breastplates personally made by Magnus each (which gets kinda funny when you recall their numerical inflation in Inferno).

Then you have Legions like the EC, BA or Salamanders which are really fixated on fancy bling. I tend to get the shoulders for most every EC unit because it seems to me that everyone will be as blingy as possible but rarely use the heads since they are specifically said to be a mark of honour given for great valour. I am at a bit of a loss lately though, since I ran out of transfers and can't free-hand a Palatine Aquilla to save my life.

Then you have Legions like the Scars who don't really seem to give a flying either way.

I may be biased but I still like my Sons of Horus more than my Luna Wolves Especially when I constructed both my command squads to not just be mirrors, but the same canonical individuals

It depends, I think any option can be explained away pretty well. Personally, with units like Ultramarines in particular, I rather like the helmet upgrade kits in particular because they feel like that pocket empire's 'local manufacturing pattern' with all the arrogance to have their stamp 'Proudly Made in Ultramar' on the side.

But I definitely think you make a great point, StrangeOrders, the amount of bling can really vary on the legions and certain ones stick out aesthetically more than others. I mean, I always loved my grungy Blood Angels, but then they got rococo'd so hard that they outshone the Emperors Children and I gave them up completely. But we've become so used to Thousand Sons and Russ's mutts that seeing them 'plain' is a little jarring. I do think it can be done, especially with Wolves, but with the Thousand Sons in particular there almost feels like a completely separate non-astartes entity. But that's really it, I think everyone can really make of their company as they wish and with just a bit of creative backstory fluff, it'll slot right in perfectly :)

Oh, as for the EC aquillas... pauldron wise, I swore Pop Goes the Monkey had some insignia sets for them.

[Kizzdougs]

For shoulder plates I definitely prefer the look of decals over the moulded details, but I know a lot of people prefer the ready to go plates.

[MegaVolt87]

If you have transfers for your legion, I would use those at a minimum IMO. I am happy with the IW upgrades myself.

[Marshal Vespasian]

I have moulded shoulder plates and the special heads on my first twenty tacticals. For the next bunch I am still undecided on wether to get a bunch of heads and shoulders again or just use decals.

 

For my terminators though I definitely want the cataphractii shoulders from shapeways

[MegaVolt87]

I missed out on the termi legion pads, I have been using FW etched brass to do them instead which was easier surprisingly to find. If you look hard enough you can get um well "fan made"  cata legion pads that are basically the same + quality as the OOP ones for way less than OOP ones. 

[Bung]

 

Instead of whole shoulder pads i prefer the insignia from Pop Goes the Monkey

https://www.shapeways.com/product/48XSCNRSB/60x-kings-fist-small-convex-insignias-5mm?optionId=78050908&li=shops

 

They are rather cheap for a set of 60 and can be used with any shoulder pad, or other part of SM armour (I already glued one to a Energy Fist).

I think they give you a good mix of detail, flexibility and cost compared to decals and full shoulder pads.

 

Do you have any pics of models using those bits? I had a look at them for pads, but they were the same price. I had missed these

 

 

Here is one where i used one of the Fist icons on apower Fist