Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

2.5K Sons of Horus


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1
First_Among_Brothers

First_Among_Brothers

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 19 posts

Looking to be semi-competetive with Sons of Horus though I realize that the legion's ruleset has serious limitations. Trying to both play to the legion's strengths and have multiple threats/ lots of scoring units to rack up VPs in certain missions. At the moment, list is rather weak in terms of anti-armor. Also, toying with the idea of shifting things around a bit to replace the Typhon either with Horus or with a Falchion.

 

LoW: Typhon w/ Armored Ceramite [415]

 

HQ:

- Maloghurst [140] -- Joins Tactical Support Squad in Rhino

- Primus Medicae w/ Terminator Armor [130] -- Joins Justaerin in Spartan

 

Elites:

- 9x Justaerin (5x Pairs of Lightning Claws; 4x Power Sword & Combi-Bolter) [490]

Dedicated Transport--Spartan w/ Armored Ceramite [330]

- 1x Apothecary (Jump Pack) [60]

 

Troops:

- 15x Reavers (Jump Packs; 4x Power Swords, 10x Chainaxes; Sergeant w/ Power Sword & Melta Bombs) [400]

- 10x Tactical Marines (Vexilla; Sergeant w/ Power Sword; Rhino Transport) [180]

- 5x Tactical Support Marines (4x Volkite Chargers; Sergeant w/ Combi-Plasma; Rhino Transport) [135]

 

Fast Attack:

- Primaris Lightning Strike Fighter (2x Kraken Missiles; Battle Servitor Control) [185]

 

RoW: The Long March --- Total Points: 2500

 

Lots of other possibilities--like I said, could run this with Horus or a Falchion instead, might switch something out for javelin speeders or Sicaran-platform tanks (I have a battle tank and an arcus). The idea is, though, everything is mobile, everything scores, everything benefits from SoH special rules.



#2
Lautrec the Embraced

Lautrec the Embraced

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 42 posts
I have a few suggestions but let me start with elephant in the room - the Justaerin squad.

They are really good imo. Rather cheap for what they offer, 2 wounds, useful Furious Charge, chosen warriors. But despite all that, despite Merciless Fighters and despite Primus Medicae healing skills, your squad WILL lose even against same sized, way cheaper regular Terminator Squad with no bonuses whatsoever. You know why? Because you forgot (or neglected) AP2.
Against 9 Termis with Fists you kill around 1.69 of them, then they kill more than 3 of your pricey, 2 wounded Termis with Feel no Pain (assuming nobody charged and excluding Primus damage output).

Long story short, your Justaerin will obliterate any Power Armoured troops but at such a high price that's not enough. Right now you can't tackle Terminators, or any Artificer Armour squads. You will even struggle with regular sergeants and don't get me started on
Dreadnoughts. You NEED some Chainfists and Fists or Axes.

Reavers looks better to me, but I'd also recommend Ap2 to some extent - maybe 2-3 axes instead of swords?

You could have some more firepower but I'd expect Typhon, Spartan and Lightning to do most of the heavy lifting just fine.

Tactical Support feels somewhat underwhelming. It leaves Maloghurst rather vulnerable and is not too effective itself. Instead you could take for example a Veteran squad with combi-weapons and some melee gear, so you could fully benefit from all your rules.

Edited by Lautrec the Embraced, 10 December 2019 - 09:15 PM.

  • Vykes likes this

#3
Vykes

Vykes

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,073 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Faction: Sons of Horus 65th company

-looks around- alright, I'm deeeefinitely not the competitive sort of person so I kinda expected a lot of others to chime in well before my thoughts would come out.  But I guess I'll have a go if it helps ya.  I'll just red-text this all mate. 

 

 

Looking to be semi-competetive with Sons of Horus though I realize that the legion's ruleset has serious limitations. Trying to both play to the legion's strengths and have multiple threats/ lots of scoring units to rack up VPs in certain missions. At the moment, list is rather weak in terms of anti-armor. Also, toying with the idea of shifting things around a bit to replace the Typhon either with Horus or with a Falchion.

-Yeah it's not bad, I like the Legion rules myself (hence I have 2 armies of the 16th), but this one is an interesting one for me.  I'd say that it's not so much anti-armour as something Lautrec mentioned, anti terminator/monsters.  You have a respectable enough set of scoring units, but it's a little light on bodies for someone like me, and not an enormous amount of redundant role diversity in case certain portions get knocked out.  I'd also be very worried about things like aircraft. 

 

LoW: Typhon w/ Armored Ceramite [415]

-Not bad, it's pricey and it'll attract a lot of fire so watch for any mirror Lightnings which will ruin your day. 

 

HQ:

- Maloghurst [140] -- Joins Tactical Support Squad in Rhino

-yep, totally works.  Mal's usually seen as a top tir choice, but here's the thing: he's top tier because he allows vets, which you're not using.  Which I'd try to work some points in for, even just to replace the tacs with a blank veteran tactical unit.  The extra attacks and kit are worth it along with their specialization. 

- Primus Medicae w/ Terminator Armor [130] -- Joins Justaerin in Spartan

-This is pricey.  Not terrible but in this point environment it feels excessive: there's no close combat hero to help your troops out of a jam and it goes to make that Justarian unit ENORMOUS.  So if they get hung up by a thrown track or struck against a dreadnought, we're talking about more than 1/3rd of your points in 1 place. 

 

Elites:

- 9x Justaerin (5x Pairs of Lightning Claws; 4x Power Sword & Combi-Bolter) [490]

-Lautrec has this covered, it's the elephant in the room.  It you absolutely can, you NEED a few chainfists, power fists, or the like.  I'm not a fan of axes with Justarians are it doesn't often give you anything extra with our legion, but they need some AP 2 and they absolutely need some way to deal with dreadnoughts and characters that will dice them all game long. 

Dedicated Transport--Spartan w/ Armored Ceramite [330]

-This+Typhon feels like a lot of heavy armour in 2.5K, especially as it's all loaded up.  Though at least I don't have to see a flare shield on top of it all.   

- 1x Apothecary (Jump Pack) [60]

-Perfectly fine. 

 

Troops:

- 15x Reavers (Jump Packs; 4x Power Swords, 10x Chainaxes; Sergeant w/ Power Sword & Melta Bombs) [400]

-Everyone will say what they want about Reavers, I personally love them but they're expensive and tough to use at times.  Might want to swap out some of the power swords for axes or fists for the same reason as the Justarian, and sergeant with artificer armour is usually encouraged. 

- 10x Tactical Marines (Vexilla; Sergeant w/ Power Sword; Rhino Transport) [180]

-I'm good with this, seriously it's fine.  Vexilia might be overkill compared to artificer armor sergeant.

- 5x Tactical Support Marines (4x Volkite Chargers; Sergeant w/ Combi-Plasma; Rhino Transport) [135]

-All good, no issue.  Combi-plasma might seem a little weird but I like units like this.  That said, Mal's going here, right?  Well, it limits their speed and flexibility pretty hard as they become less an assault unit.  It might be good if you could see about snagging a few points and 'upgrading' them to Calivers which really make the difference with their better range, st.6, and first turn benefits. 

 

Fast Attack:

- Primaris Lightning Strike Fighter (2x Kraken Missiles; Battle Servitor Control) [185]

-All good, it'll crack open a few heavy tanks and the like. Just watch for AA fire. 

 

RoW: The Long March --- Total Points: 2500

-This one I'll admit I'm almost surprised with.  It's a great rite, but there's not a lot of places to reroll those 1's, not enough guns to count or heavy weapons that take advantage of the Relentless, it helps mid and backfield, but I'd think that the Javelin or Sicaran would be more useful for something like this.  Going out a bit, Horus can work at 2.5K but I'm not sure like this.  The Falchion I think is waaaay over-specialized here.  

 

Lots of other possibilities--like I said, could run this with Horus or a Falchion instead, might switch something out for javelin speeders or Sicaran-platform tanks (I have a battle tank and an arcus). The idea is, though, everything is mobile, everything scores, everything benefits from SoH special rules.


  • Varyn likes this

gallery_107230_14721_11872.png


#4
First_Among_Brothers

First_Among_Brothers

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 19 posts
Thanks for the pointers—definitely will be adding some AP2 to the terminators. Veterans are a good idea, too, though there’s even a way of dropping the tactical + support squads to squeeze in another reaver jump squad. Will post updated list soon enough if anyone’s interested.

In the meantime, I’d like to follow up on the last point—you said Horus can work in a 2.5K... I’ll be honest, I have the Typhon in there bc I feel that Horus would be an impossibility, so I’d love to hear how he could fit into 2.5K. You mention a low model count plus the expense of the Justaerin—wouldn’t it be even lower & more expensive with Horus in the list? Horus, Primus Medicae, Justaerin, Spartan—that’s like 1500 points. Then, Reavers don’t score in Horus’ force multiplier rules. I’m actually painting a plasma tactical support squad right now for bigger games and would love to include it in 2.5K with Horus since it would outflank in its rhino, but, again, 255 points for 7-count with plasma + rhino, and, again, doesn’t score.

So, I’m curious how people run Horus in 2.5K... surely not deep striking? The SoH tactica thread on this board has several pages of people posting the limitations of using Horus, so I figured I’d just save him for bigger games, but I’d love to build a 2.5K around this fantastic model so I’d love to hear how you think this might work.
  • Vykes likes this

#5
Vykes

Vykes

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,073 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Faction: Sons of Horus 65th company

Eh we're always interested in seeing ideas and concepts (and hearing how they pan out for everyone.  Because groups are different, it can be pretty fun to see how things are elsewhere).  Hmm, if you're going with Reaver squads, maybe there's a way to look into something like the Black Reaving as a rite of war?  It feels nice and aggressive (I know it's not the best overall but that's not to say it's terrible or beyond the pale).  

 

As for Horus in 2.5K, yep, deepstrike for me.  But that's because I have 2 distinct Sons of Horus forces, Luna Wolves and mid-war Sons of Horus.  I tend not to take Horus in the mid-war until the 3K+ mark and more ideally at 5K as a centerpiece along with my squadrons of heavy armour or flights of Storm Eagles: but in the Luna Wolves, it's all Orbital Assault with 8-ish drop pods, Horus, and a Cataphractii terminator unit (which closes in on about 850 points and is still expensive, but deepstrikes, is scoring, doesn't scatter, arrives whenever they want).  Thus, no Spartan, cheaper terminators, no Lord of War, and typically another 40 tacticals, melta gun support, dreadnoughts, and some more combi-plas veterans.  Not gonna lie, like all deep strike lists, it's a massive gamble but usually there's enough overwhelming numbers that it'll be a surprise.  

 

It works for me mostly because there's so many targets and troopers that it acts as a degree of protection in creating drop zones, then Horus becomes a very big problem very quickly.  But that's because everything is 'in your face' as quickly as possible, with Death Dealer and Merciless Killers activating quickly. 

 

In my heavy armour/aircraft conventional lists, yeah, it's not something I would think of.  However, I have seen Horus+dreadclaw as a thing bandied about some.  I do rather like the plasma squad, and yeah they are almost always stuuuupidly pricey, but act as a sort of decisive scalpel when properly applied.  Thus at the 255 point, they can be a linchpin unit made for counteracting terminators, jetbikes, command squads, Mechanicum monsters, quad mortar batteries, or vehicle squadrons/knights and earning their place by dint of what they can stop rather than even just pure cost differentials (though they tend to come out better in those equations) . 


gallery_107230_14721_11872.png


#6
Ultramarinebo

Ultramarinebo

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 64 posts
I love a good Sons list, you've received some good feedback so far.

This one has the bones but not the mangy skin that a sons list needs.

I reckon your main problem lies with your lack of units. You need more small, cheap, mobile units swarming and threating with close combat.

The typhoon needs to go. Two Mortis Dreads or anything with cheapish las cannons will out perform the LoW.

The mega point dump on the spartan and Justin's is questionable. I've had amazing success with two 5x squads both in Deepstriking Anvillus.
  • Vykes likes this

#7
First_Among_Brothers

First_Among_Brothers

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 19 posts

Thanks for all of the hugely useful advice. Below, you will find me applying a good deal of it to a Horus-centered list.

 

LoW: Horus [500]

 

HQ: Primus Medicae w/ Terminator Armor [130]

 

Elites: 1x Apothecary w/ Jump Pack [60]

 

Troops:

5x Justaerin Terminators: 5x Combi-Meltas; 3x Power Swords; 1x Power FIst; 1x Chainfist [305]

 

10x Veterans: 2x Meltaguns; 4x Combi-Meltas; Sergeant w/ Power Fist & Arty Armor; Termite Assault Drill Transport [335]

 

7x Tactical Support Marines: 6x Plasma Guns; Sergeant w/ Combi-Plasma; Rhino Transport [255]

 

6x Tactical Support Marines: 5x Plasma Guns; Sergeant w/ Combi-Plasma; Rhino Transport [225]

 

Fast Attack:

15x Reavers: Jump Packs; 2x Power Swords; 1x Power Fist;  10x Chainaxes; 1x Chainsword; Sergeant w. Power Fist & Arty Armor  [405]

 

1x Javelin Land Speeder: Multi-melta [65]

 

Heavy Support:

Arcus w/ Skyspear Warheads, no sponsons [220]

 

Total: [2500]; RoW: The Long March (which I need to reroll ones especially for the plasma squads)


Edited by First_Among_Brothers, 03 January 2020 - 09:39 PM.


#8
First_Among_Brothers

First_Among_Brothers

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 19 posts

My apologies for not posting in response to other lists, but I’m still relatively new to 30k and so will wait until I have more experience before I give advice.

Having spent some time playtesting, doing a bit of ‘research,’ and trying to apply some suggestions from this board, I’ve come up with a Horus list that tries to, as Vykes would advise, play at to the legion’s few strengths. Two things I don’t think I’m taking sufficient advantage of: Horus’ outflank force multiplier and the Long March RoW’s bonuses. I *could* switch out the Sicaran arcus for a missile launcher heavy support squad + a master of signal so as to take the Black Reaving RoW and make the reavers a troops choice, but I doubt that will matter since they likely won’t survive to the end of the game anyway.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 



#9
Varyn

Varyn

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 272 posts
  • Location:Devon, UK

Vykes has made some excellent points here so I don't have much to add, I highly recommend checking out Vykes' hobby thread, it's really inspiring. Anyway, here are my thoughts:

 

I find Horus somewhat problematic; his deepstrike makes and the ability to choose which turn he arrives looks very strong on paper, but it means you won't be getting into assault until turn 3 at the earliest. This means 500 points (plus bodyguard) of melee specialists that will only get into combat once or twice in the game. This has personally put me off using Horus as I think he really needs to be in a Kharybdis.

 

The Reavers (as Vykes said) are tricky as they are so overpriced and can very quickly become a big points sink, I'd recommend going all chainaxes with a couple of power axes and power fists. They are better if you take Maloghurst as he makes them troops and therefore scoring. I am hoping that Reavers get a points tweak like some of the other units did in the latest FAQ, they really ought to be 20 points less and have access to cheaper jump packs.

 

If you are considering using Horus to make units outflank then a damocles command tank is a good way to boost your reserve rolls to make sure your units arrive.

 

It's always good to see another Sons of Horus player, good luck with your army and put some pictures up when you can!



#10
First_Among_Brothers

First_Among_Brothers

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 19 posts
You mention the Kharybdis... I like the model enough to get one despite what I imagine is several hours of swearing out loud while trying to assemble it. Is it advisable in 2.5k, or is it too much of a point sink that should be reserved for larger games?

#11
Varyn

Varyn

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 272 posts
  • Location:Devon, UK

I personally think Horus + Kharybdis would be best in 2500+ point army lists, using that combination in lower point games may cause your list to be a bit unbalanced. 



#12
First_Among_Brothers

First_Among_Brothers

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 19 posts
1) Thanks for all of this. I will be posting pictures at some point relatively soon—likely I’ll start a WIP thread or something of the sort.

2) I agree with you, Varyn, when it comes to the difficulty of using Horus, but I’m having a hard time justifying using that 500 points for something else. Instead of Horus + the chaplain, I could use the Typhon + Maloghurst as in the original list, or 2x Lascannon Mortis Dreads + Maloghurst to add some much-needed first turn firepower, but would these really give the list as much as Horus, especially since I can deep strike Horus in to counter enemy reserves if I hold off, and since the ability to avoid scatter guarantees the Justaerin wind up in melta range?

These are just some thoughts, though, I don’t mean to re-ignite the debate over Horus’ battlefield viability I notice got quite heated in the Sons of Horus Tactica thread a few years ago. It just seems like he’s a good use of 500 points in a 2.5K where I am likely to face either A) another primarch or B ) a super-heavy LoW that will have to play to account for Horus’ impending arrival rather than just carelessly cut a swathe through an LoW-less army.

Edited by First_Among_Brothers, 08 January 2020 - 08:51 PM.


#13
Varyn

Varyn

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 272 posts
  • Location:Devon, UK

Also, if you're looking for pin-point deep strike, remember that units don't scatter if they deep strike within 24" of a Damocles command rhino.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users