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DG Helbrute vs. Contemptor Helbrute

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13 replies to this topic

#1
Putrid Choir

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Why would anyone take a twin lascannon and missle launcher Helbrute for 120pts when you can take a Contemptor Helbrute for 138pts with two butcher cannons and an invuln save?

Edit: originally put plasma instead of lascannon.

Edited by Putrid Choir, 09 December 2019 - 10:25 AM.


#2
Closet Skeleton

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18 points can matter, when fitting stuff in a list and its 54 points if you want three of them.

 

Helbrute can double shoot for 1cp, contemptor has no stratagem support.

 

One has two lascannon shots (I assume that's what you meant to type) the other doesn't.

 

But yes, broadly speaking Forgeworld dreads aren't balanced against codex ones and neither are multi-shot damage 2 weapons against d6 damage ones (look at a twin multi-melta contemptor for something that makes the twin-las/missile launcher helbrute look good). So well done for finding the most expensive helbrute and the most efficient contemptor. Melee Helbrutes can actually look good compared to melee contemptors but its generally firesupport that Death Guard need.



#3
Putrid Choir

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I definitely meant lascannon haha. Corrected it. I didn't mean to do the most expensive load out on the Helbrute, I simply meant to do the best ranged one, that just happens to be the most expensive one. The contemptor also starts with 2+ bs on top of the invuln and more wounds. I'm just trying to figure out what I want to get next.

#4
Sherrypie

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While the codex Helbrute still suffers from costing too much (or really just not having DR like it should), there is an argument to be made for them if you want to play lots of dreadnoughts. Personally I like my Contemptors to have at least one fist (Custodes and IG tanks feature heavily here) and push forwards to keep the fight near the enemy with terminators dropping in while the infantry holds objectives further back, which could benefit from long range support here and there. As playing dense terrain is a requirement for an interesting game, the back lines aren't necessarily subjected to blistering levels of firepower early on. With the DG trait they can still hit things after popping out of cover, which is nice.

 

That said, Contemptors all day before you run 4+ dreads.


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#5
Putrid Choir

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Yeah if the codex helbrute got DR I'd buy 3 in a heart beat. My friends I've been playing with for years on and off are a good mix but the rando's around here are 90% space marine (go figure) and a majority castle up. Melee helbrutes wouldn't make it into combat for me most likely.

#6
happyslugger

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I find that if you run one or two (I have three but one melta and fist, the other two are Las and Missile) along with a leviathan and a Contemptor (dual BC's on both) they can do some work as people focus on the other two dreads.

 

Are they competitive?  No.  But I do like the models and sometimes just throw lists together with things I haven't played with in a while.


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#7
Putrid Choir

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Realistically I want to avoid Forgeworld. But with how marines are now I might have to dabble. I'm going to wait to buy anything until DG are in psychic awakening, which if they are paired against the Tau will be February I think (BA and tyranids is Dec, and TS, GK and DA is Jan I believe). Depending on strats and what not will determine my next move.

#8
HeresyBeliever

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120 points for the Las / Missile isnt a bad deal

 

Contemptors win over in in general because of the invol save but a helbrute in cover gives you a 5+ same most of the time away. 

 

If the HB had DR I would be all over them tbh. or if the haulers had weapon options. Although 102 points for the speedy hauler is good. Yes BS4+ but doesnt degrade, has invol and DR its speedy can perform in combat and is harder to kill in combat. 

 

Seriouls looking at them slighting more now past the last time i used them with the GUO. If I could be arsed to paint 6 more I would  


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#9
Putrid Choir

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The 4+ BS kills me though, same with having the multi-melta and no twin lascannon. Points drop or not. And since our legion trait isn't army wide (yet), hitting on 5+ after advancing with one shot suuuucks. I just want DR on our helbrutes already. Our loyalist counterpart the Iron Hands dreads get their version of it and so much more for no extra point costs, why can't we?

Edited by Putrid Choir, 10 December 2019 - 02:08 PM.


#10
HeresyBeliever

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The 4+ BS kills me though, same with having the multi-melta and no twin lascannon. Points drop or not. And since our legion trait isn't army wide (yet), hitting on 5+ after advancing with one shot suuuucks. I just want DR on our helbrutes already. Our loyalist counterpart the Iron Hands dreads get their version of it and so much more for no extra point costs, why can't we

If we got DR on all units then my god I would ven think about using a land raider


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#11
Putrid Choir

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I know right? When compared to other chaos space marine Legions it might seem over powered but when compared to Iron hands I feel like move and shoot heavy without penalty and 5+++ still isn't as good move and shoot heavy without penalty, 6+++, 5+ overwatch, double wounds for brackets, reroll 1's for heavy and -1ap for heavies. I feel like all GW really cares about is selling kits anyways, give all DG units DR and I'd be buying predators, rhino's, land raiders, defilers and all sorts of stuff haha.
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#12
Wolf Lord Loki

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The 4+ BS kills me though, same with having the multi-melta and no twin lascannon. Points drop or not. And since our legion trait isn't army wide (yet), hitting on 5+ after advancing with one shot suuuucks. I just want DR on our helbrutes already. Our loyalist counterpart the Iron Hands dreads get their version of it and so much more for no extra point costs, why can't we?


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#13
Putrid Choir

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The 4+ BS kills me though, same with having the multi-melta and no twin lascannon. Points drop or not. And since our legion trait isn't army wide (yet), hitting on 5+ after advancing with one shot suuuucks. I just want DR on our helbrutes already. Our loyalist counterpart the Iron Hands dreads get their version of it and so much more for no extra point costs, why can't we?

Mephitic blight hawlers don't suffer penalties for moving and firing. The Tri Track rule

Hehe I said advancing, was referring to the bile spurt, I always roll one shot and always miss it trying to get my haulers onto objectives. Idk I might play around with them at 102pts but they still don't look good to me. They are great if your opponents are melee focused, and about 1/12 people I play are so they never do it for me. I'll stick to drones and PBCs for now.

#14
McElMcNinja

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I ran a helbrute last night, mostly because the points drop afforded my list something and I thought what the heck. It did what it always does, allowed my opponent a turn 1 kill to score "Old School". I would have been better off taking Cultists or a rock. DR might help, but I think an invulnerable save would be better (and +1T).
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