The Eldar in the HH

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

I think a problem is that a lot of us haven't read the Eldar books like Hand of Asuryan or Jain Zar. But going off the infamous 'Khârn is used to make other people look good' thread, the OP is known for "misremembering" a lot of supporting detail; a quick wiki check has asurmen contemplating suicide after years of being stranded on his planet. Clearly at the end of his rock and roll career instead of the start, if you know what I mean.

So I misremembered that bit but it only took him 7 years to get his together, so I may been off a bit but my point still stands. And enough with that, every comment or thread I make you keep saying that, its getting tiring. Everyone misremembers stuff and I was absolutely right about that Khârn bit and you said that there as well because you couldn't refute what I said. If anyone is known for something you are known for ad-hominems when you can't refute your point, so you'll constantly say 'he's known for this' rather than actually tackling the argument. If I'm known for misremembering then you don't have to bring it up in every thread I make. So much so that you amongst others will always take the adversarial position in my posts and then find yourselves in ridiculous positions like saying it took 1000 years for the Eldar to get their :cuss together.

I don't know about other people, but I like to double check the facts I'm presenting. When it's in the context of a sustained discussion/debate, I find it mandatory. You're one of the very few people to continuously engage after exposing your lack of familiarity. Now if you consider that a personal attack, sure, whatever; it's more of a comment on your debate style and how you present evidence.

 

Another thing you can improve on is reading answers; myself and others have said why we don't think the eldar can go literally head to head with either side of the imperium. If asurmen established all the paths of the warrior in less than 10 years, cool. I'm not sure if the 1000 years between the Fall and Crusade comes from that book either, but also cool. The eldar were still splintered in terms of being a cohesive people and devastated with losses. Then the crusade came around and had them getting rolled by the imperium. They just didn't have the military might to do anything; instead of having a handful of assassins to attack angron out of his pod on nuceria, why not a whole warhost? Instead of a small fleet to go against lorgar and angron's 3 capital ships, why not an armada? They did what they could, often with subterfuge; a trait that's pretty synonymous with current eldar, but not pre-Fall eldar considering they just used automata to fight for them. Subterfuge implies a disadvantage. Any action was also carried out according to their own particular leader's goals. Remember that eldrad was against the Cabal, which can be expanded to assume that farseers had different interpretations of what future was beneficial, as well as how to get to that future in the first place (as the emperor explains, it's a bit tricky). That's what I've been saying, and its supported by accounts of legionaries and primarchs. It's not a ridiculous position at all.

 

And yes, you are completely wrong about Khârn.

Edited December 12, 2019 by SkimaskMohawk

[Fajita Fan]

In “Thousand Sons” we learn the Emperor is reverse engineering a webway portal and had planned to use Magnus on the golden throne to guide humanity through it so we wouldn’t have to go in the warp anymore to travel between the stars.

 

So this makes me wonder a few things. Was the webway portal already on Earth in the Himalayas or did the Emperor move it there? Can a portal be moved? If it was there is that why the Emperor built the palace there? Did the Eldar know the Emperor was trying to get in there; did they try to help or hinder him?

 

Just a few things to keep me up tonight.

[Darkwrath121]

In “Thousand Sons” we learn the Emperor is reverse engineering a webway portal and had planned to use Magnus on the golden throne to guide humanity through it so we wouldn’t have to go in the warp anymore to travel between the stars.

 

So this makes me wonder a few things. Was the webway portal already on Earth in the Himalayas or did the Emperor move it there? Can a portal be moved? If it was there is that why the Emperor built the palace there? Did the Eldar know the Emperor was trying to get in there; did they try to help or hinder him?

 

Just a few things to keep me up tonight.

He built and opened his own portal,with some ancient technology to help. He then used his closest Mechanicum allies to find a way to build human Webway segments connecting to the original Eldar/Old One network, and shielded those human-built segments with the power of the throne.

 

As for the Eldar reaction, they tended to just avoid combat and retreat ahead of the human advance into the Webway, sealing certain passages behind them.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Darkwrath121

[Fajita Fan]

It wasn't an actual Eldar webway portal he was tinkering with?  That really disappoints me. 

[bluntblade]

It's quite possible that the Golden Throne was alien in manufacture and that Eldar/Old Ones tech was being reverse-engineered, but the Imperium built its own portal and some connective tissue to get into the Webway from Terra.

 

In all honesty, it makes sense for human worlds not to be connected to it originally.

[Beren]

Pretty sure that one of the War of the Beast novels had at least one minor webway portal on Terra that had been sealed of as they realised the Emperor was building stuff up.

[Nova_Dew]

While the Eldar shouldn't have a major part in a story about a human cival war, they are somewhat involved due to chaos and webways (and depending on if the webway portal was eldar in origon, meaning Terra was an Eldar world once or if it was a Necron world or both).

 

It would be interesting to read their point of view of humanity and the Sol system through the ages, from when/if it was a Eldar/Necron world through it's abandonment before humanities evolution, up until the dark age of technology adding a little fluff there would be awesome.

 

I would like to see how far humanity had fallen during old night, give me a little context BL, it makes old night even more tragic if we know more about humanity at it's zenith), the war against the Men of Iron (were the Eldar involed at all and on who's side) then onto the re-emergance of humanity, the Imperium and the Horus Heresy.

 

Has the Big E met with the Eldar before old night, what did they think of each other? what did the eldar think of humanity and vice versa? we know that some human colonies alied with the eldar during old night, was it a mutal need during old night or does it go back further?

 

So many question that could be answered and more asked and without needing to have a book from the Big E's point of view or even involving him if done right.

[Blood Angel Scout]

The webway pre-dated the Eldar, interconnected the Old Ones empire so no surprise there were gates on Terra or even the Moon. The Emperor was making a human version connecting to existing Eldar settlements.

 

From what is in the lore, the Eldar's main focus was upon saving itself/survival after the birth of Slannesh, resulting in the Eye of Terror, swallowing almost all of its entire race, comparative to size at peak.

This was a region that was covered by Word Bearers expeditionary fleets, as it was far from the rest of Imperial forces so limited interaction or need to. Then, the next big focus of the crusade was to draw the legions to Ullanor, where the Ork Empire was centered, implying they were already an existing threat, broken down from requiring numerous legions, to then individual scale. The threat of the Orks regrouping was false to have the Ultra's be kept in Ultramar so the WB and WE could deal with them. As for the rest of possible xenos threats, maybe a Hrud migration but Necrons were still sleeping, Tyranids had just got the invite from the Pharos a galaxy away, were the Tau even a thing in the 31st mil but mainly that by this stage of the crusade, it's mop up duty as everything else would've been classed as compliant.

 

As to times where Eldrad intervenes, that's more to do with established lore as being he's always "seen" differently to the rest of the seers so introducing this to what is the 40k backstory, makes sort of an in-universe sense to having playing a part in defeating Choas, seeing the benefit for his race, rather than assisting Humanity

[Fajita Fan]

I’m so disappointed because I thought there was an elegant Eldar webway portal in the Emperor’s basement covered in Imperial technology as they hack and reverse engineer it. I really liked that mental picture.

[Brother Pheidias]

As to times where Eldrad intervenes, that's more to do with established lore as being he's always "seen" differently to the rest of the seers so introducing this to what is the 40k backstory, makes sort of an in-universe sense to having playing a part in defeating Choas, seeing the benefit for his race, rather than assisting Humanity

There's a quote in the 2nd. ed. Eldar codex where Eldrad is quoting as saying "Make no mistake, human, we are not fighting for your Emperor, we are fighting against the Warmaster".

 

Might even be from Epic or Space Marine originally.