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+Storm Riders+ Shock and Awe. Hopefully.

Becoming like Ace Why am I making more topics

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#1
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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So in the spirit of my inspiration, Ace, I've decided to post up the rough point overview of the last chapter I envisioned before I left. They're not quite as close to my heart as the Blazing Sons but I like the idea I had for them, so let's see if anyone else does.

 

 

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Storm Riders
 
med_gallery_26631_1168_227135.png
 
Ultramarines Geneseed.
 
Ultra-no-nonsense, military minded.
 
Efficiency is striven for, however victory with the best possible outcome is prized above all else.
 
Extreme reliance on shock and awe assaults, close quarter battle tactics and coordinated maneuver to hit operational objectives before rapid redeployment.
 
This isn't raven guard infiltration, this is true shock and awe. Drop Pod assault, operational air-dominance and surgical use of artillery and heavy weapons.
 
Fleet Based.
 
Hold no grudges, they aren't useful, but they will remember your actions and factor them into future decisions.
 
Burning hatred for traitors and the dispensing of His Golden age of Enlightenment (requires founding by original legion member).
 
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
Organisation.
 
 
 
The chapters home fleet is one defensive in nature, the Storm Surge and the fleet anchor at the most strategically viable point within a sector, typically the chapter operates as a whole within one larger sphere of operations, but the companies themselves split off to pursue any crisis or calls for aid within the area. The leadership of the Storm Riders has always attempted to be stabilizers. They tackle any and all problems that are laid before them that they have the capacity to handle before the calls for aid from other sectors become too pressing to ignore.
 
Each company is self contained, is assigned it's own ships, serfs, arms-men or servitors that are needed to carry out whatever is under their remit in the region from what is available. Each company commander is responsible for their own cadre as well as the men of the company under their command. They are also given the right to draw from the specialized divisions of the chapter that call the fleet home, such as the Reclusiam, Librarium and Apothacarian, and so forth.
 
Vehicles, ships and equipment is drawn and rescinded depending on the tasks they see before them. Only the Chapter Master has the right to veto any request they may have, all other assets are to be shared as needed. It is common for a vehicle or even line weaponry to pass between several companies, each time gaining a mark or name to represent each campaign they have served in, the same as the Astartes that wield them.
 
 
 

The Fleet.

 

 

 

The Storm Riders don't just view the fleet as their home, but the Storm Surge itself takes the place in their collective psyche that a homeworld would in a more traditional chapter. This ship, a direct link to their founder and his legion from the Great Crusade. The fleet itself is made up of two Battle-Barge class capital ships, ten Strike Cruisers and approximately twenty escorts depending on potential combat losses.

 

Known simply as 'The Fleet' within the chapter, it is their home and hearth, the heart of the chapter. In the Storm Surge they learn about their founder and first chapter master, his tenets and the will and mission he passed on to his brothers. The fleet itself houses a community made up of the armsmen and serfs who tend to the ships and wargear of the chapter, as well as crew and defend them. The Storm Surge has been given remit to house and maintain such a population under the Storm Riders, the ship itself being regarded as the chapters homeworld under Imperial records. Despite this designation, the ship doesn't produce anywhere near enough recruits for the chapter to be self-sustaining, though it does provide enough for the chapter to prevent being crippled after a disaster and slowly replenish some of their number, even while on the move.

 

The serfs that crew the ships and call them home are very much generational, their families are raised upon the Storm Surge and all they will ever know is service in the fleet, dedicating their entire lives to supporting it. Whether they are agri-harvesters in the food-bays, line-smiths for the forge or pilots and armsmen, for all intent and purpose this is their home. The Astartes are the lords and avenging angels that live beyond them, their minds eternally turned to the will of the Emperor.

While the Storm Riders themselves highly value their serfs and workers and are grateful for their service, they do not live nor mix with the people. Theirs is a life of constant training and study of war and the philosophies and strategies related to them. While this is not true of every brother of the chapter, the leaders of the companies and even some Sergeants and Lieutenants will build a rapport with those they interact with, they are far from the disposition of the Salamanders, and won't hesitate to sacrifice their serfs as well as themselves if the situation calls for it.

 

At the end of the day, the Fleet is their home and one they'll fight for as viciously as any terrestrially-bound chapter.

 
 
 
The Storm Surge.
 
The chapters home is a now ancient battle barge, handed down to them by their gene-brothers after the passing of the last soul of their training cadre, Ancient Vexillus. The Storm Riders returned the last son of Macragge and, moved by their cousins honour and loyalty, the Ultramarines gifted the chapter the Storm Surge in return, a time worn ship is a battle barge on the same template as the Nemesis class. A ship built for the legions, but left at the wayside after the Heresy, now given a second lease of life and purpose. The enormous space given over for hangar bays as been a boon for the chapter, many have been converted to training grounds from city mock-ups to slalom courses for vehicle drivers. The ship can house the entire chapter if needed and has become a much-adored home for the battle-brothers of the Storm Riders, and they fight for it as fiercely as other chapters would a homeworld or people.

 

 

 

Recruitment

 

"A true warrior fights not only because he hates what is before him, but because he loves what is behind him."

 

Given the Storm Riders lack of any one world or system to draw from, their recruitment practices have been adapted to their nature and draw recruits from whatever region in which they are currently operating. In any other circumstance, drawing recruits in this manner wouldn't be unusual for a fleet-based chapter, however the Storm Riders do not search for feral worlds, nor do they demand tithe or raid under-hives. In the pursuit of stability, the chapter draws recruits from the worlds they fight for.

 

Imperial worlds under threat are the chapters best source of potential recruits for the chapter. The psychological sway the Storm Riders hold over a population that has now seen the fabled Astartes of legend fight for them, spill their own angelic blood to save them, the honour of becoming one of them and punishing those that made them and theirs suffer is a heady cocktail for your average imperial citizen. The orphans of the conflict, the numbers of which on Imperial worlds are usually far higher than many of a softer soul would like to countenance. Only in times of desperation or extreme loss does the chapter entreat the families that remain.

 

Worlds being brought into compliance are similar in many ways, except instead of the Astartes being their saviors, they are truly seen as the avenging angels of a mythical Emperor on Terra. Great pains are taken to reinforce the shock and awe of the Astartes actions on the world, with set piece objectives being pursued that hold only a value to the native population, with the aim of fear, awe and submission in mind.

 

Regardless of the world in question, the Storm Riders will not countenance taking what they need without consent. The recruits are the lifeblood of their chapter and they must be driven to make the sacrifice that ascendance requires. Not least though are the ramifications on the quality of recruits themselves, as a willing applicant is far easier to train and more receptive to the surgeries and psycho-conditioning used in an Astartes creation.

 

The Chapter does not completely wipe away all traces of the initiates home and culture. While some clarity is lost due to the trauma of an applicant's ascension, the Storm Riders want their warriors to remember why they are fighting, and how His Astartes can change the galaxy. The beliefs of their founder heavily influence this process, a warrior who's borderline obsession with what humanity had lost with the decline of His Imperium.

 

With the end of a campaign comes an influx of recruits. From the moment they arrive they're broken out of whatever cultural or social groups they may have formed and are assigned a new group or 'section', made up of other inductees selected specifically by their new masters to build commonality as well as friction between the individuals as their sections are taken through the process of becoming a Space Marine. Over time they are encouraged to let their pain, their trauma be transformed and build them into better warriors. As the sections mature physically and emotionally, they find common ground and are also at this crucial juncture given over to study on the tenets of the Storm Riders, their philosophies and the teachings of the chapters founder.

As they begin to emotionally invest in each other, if nothing else than for their survival and success, they begin to take in and assimilate the cultural bedrock of the chapter, and are encouraged to use it practically in their training.

 

Once they cross the threshold into becoming a 'true' Astartes, they have been distanced from their origins yet without forgetting them. Viewed as if from another life, they are taught to draw an understanding and knowledge from their past. Those drawn from worlds forced into compliance often find an affinity for the main battle-line and assault roles, while those drawn from the population of the Storm Surge tend to follow their natural traits towards the Forge and Devestator companies. Finally, those from Imperial worlds being defended or rescued tend to find themselves drawn to the Reclusiam and the Apothacarian.

 

Even in their creation, the Storm Riders undercurrent of maximizing the strengths of their warriors and their chapter are evident above all else


Edited by Grey Hunter Ydalir, 28 December 2019 - 12:15 AM.

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The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#2
gripschi

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Good Start.

Maybe you choose Dark Angels as Chapter where yours hail from.

They hunt the fallen. So burning hate is there.

#3
Brother Cambrius

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A nice basic start to build on, gripschi suggests a good point on maybe having them originate from the Dark Angels, the idea of a no-nonsense hyper-martial descendant is a fun one to consider. Are these boys pre or post Primaris?

 

With their shock and awe tactics, are their companies still oriented in a relatively codex fashion, or is there an increased level of Close and Fire Support (aka Assault and Heavy Support in the old tongue) squads in the Battle Companies or any preference to their wargear?

 

Looking forwards to seeing some more, Ydalir. :)

 

Cambrius


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#4
Ace Debonair

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So in the spirit of my inspiration, Ace, I've decided to post up the rough point overview of the last chapter I envisioned before I left.


I am a horrible role model.

...You already know that, right? ermm.gif
 

Burning hatred for traitors and the dispensing of His Golden age of Enlightenment (requires founding by original legion member).

 
Hmmm.

 

I'd like to know what exactly you mean by "His Golden Age of Enlightenment".
If you mean your Chapter somehow has genuine, 100% accurate insight on how The Emperor wanted the Imperium to run, then that feels... iffy.

 

How do I put it?

You know how you advised Cambrius not to state his marines were outright better shots than other marines, over in the Vanquishers thread?

 

It's like that, but substitute marksmanship with "actually knows the Emperor's mind better than other Chapters".

 

If I've got it wrong, and your Chapter is just acting according to what they think The Emperor's Enlightened Age was like, without actually having any of the details, then I'm cautiously for it as an idea. Especially if they've got it entirely wrong, but I doubt you were planning on going that route. laugh.png


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#5
Brother Lunkhead

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Ooooohh MY TURN MY TURNmsn-wink.gif biggrin.png

 

I like the heraldry and livery lotsthumbsup.gif

 

Posted Today, 07:18 AM

 

Maybe you choose Dark Angels as Chapter where yours hail from.

 

Unless you want to avoid the hunt for the fallen intrigue.

 

I think:

 
Ultra-no-nonsense, military minded.
 
Efficiency is striven for, however victory with the best possible outcome is prized above all else.
 
….fits well with Ultramarine gene-seed wub.gif (not that I'm biased).
 
Burning hatred for traitors and the dispensing of His Golden age of Enlightenment (requires founding by original legion member).
 
Ultramarines can have burning hatred too yaknow ...... and as far as "dispensing of His Golden age of Enlightenment" goes, I think it doesn't have to be stated that each chapter has it's own vision of this, and of course they are EACH 100% right..... just ask those chapter members.
 
This isn't raven guard infiltration, this is true shock and awe. Drop Pod assault, operational air-dominance and surgical use of artillery and heavy weapons.
 
That's an interesting statement. Are you saying indirectly that the Storm Riders make extensive use of Vanguards and Scouts to soften up the enemy before the main assault or other Raven Guard tactics? Otherwise why even mention them?
 
Looks like a good start. I'm curious to see more..... and remember, Ultramarine successors have burning hatred tooyes.gif

Edited by Brother Lunkhead, 10 December 2019 - 08:37 PM.

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gallery_26154_15777_13780.png


#6
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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Good Start.

Maybe you choose Dark Angels as Chapter where yours hail from.

They hunt the fallen. So burning hate is there.

 

I've never been a fan of the Dark Angels or the entire fallen intrigue, however, it could be interesting to work it in. To clarify, I like their aesthetic and cultural draw, but I don't like the entire side to the Fallen and it's features, such as the Inner Circle.

 

Other than the Blue boys, I hadn't considered anyone else. I'm not sure about this chapter but the idea of making an Unforgiven chapter is growing on me.

 

 

A nice basic start to build on, gripschi suggests a good point on maybe having them originate from the Dark Angels, the idea of a no-nonsense hyper-martial descendant is a fun one to consider. Are these boys pre or post Primaris?

 

With their shock and awe tactics, are their companies still oriented in a relatively codex fashion, or is there an increased level of Close and Fire Support (aka Assault and Heavy Support in the old tongue) squads in the Battle Companies or any preference to their wargear?

 

Looking forwards to seeing some more, Ydalir. smile.png

 

Cambrius

 

As a rule I like my chapters to all be pre-primaris. Mainly due to there being far too little history or bulk-lore about the Primaris, as well as the fact of them being basically Space Marines 2.0, so they are cut from the same cloth.

 

I'm one of the few who actually doesn't mind the Primaris at all. The up scale on the models is way, way better. The tech is great and the battlefield tactics are a bit more modern. The lore introduction was problematic, I'll handily admit. However, unless they ran the entire thing through the Liber, and I'd prefer the old liber for that kind of work, they were always going to run into problems. It's a damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-don't decision, they had to come up with something and it was always going to be a little bit clunky, especially from GW. I'm not their biggest fan, but I'm far from hating on them like a lot of people do these days. It's also very 'in' to do, which is an attitude that holds no sway with me.

 

So the organisation has always been to my mind been more integrated. The companies would operate mostly independently of the home-fleet, which would simply serve as a mobile fortress/recruitment/forge/warehouse/etc. The Fleet as a whole moves into an area, finds the most defensible/hidden position to anchor the fleet, then the companies move off and perform their own operations. As such each company must be able to field it's own vehicles and specialists.

 

Wargear? Anything which offers precision and versatility. A Lascannon for example can hit a pinpoint target, but can also slag a tank, so it'd be a favoured heavy weapon. Almost any of the SM weapons can be used surgically given the inherent skill of most Astartes, but anything that increases that is preferred. Area of effect weapons would be less prevalent unless the foe dictated it's use, such as Orks or Tyranids, and everyone loves to set them on fire.

 

 

 

So in the spirit of my inspiration, Ace, I've decided to post up the rough point overview of the last chapter I envisioned before I left.


I am a horrible role model.

...You already know that, right? ermm.gif
 

Burning hatred for traitors and the dispensing of His Golden age of Enlightenment (requires founding by original legion member).

 
Hmmm.

 

I'd like to know what exactly you mean by "His Golden Age of Enlightenment".
If you mean your Chapter somehow has genuine, 100% accurate insight on how The Emperor wanted the Imperium to run, then that feels... iffy.

 

How do I put it?

You know how you advised Cambrius not to state his marines were outright better shots than other marines, over in the Vanquishers thread?

 

It's like that, but substitute marksmanship with "actually knows the Emperor's mind better than other Chapters".

 

If I've got it wrong, and your Chapter is just acting according to what they think The Emperor's Enlightened Age was like, without actually having any of the details, then I'm cautiously for it as an idea. Especially if they've got it entirely wrong, but I doubt you were planning on going that route. laugh.png

 

 

I know exactly what you're saying and I would have agreed if I didn't already have an answer in my head for you. As I was reading your reply I had already formulated what I was going to say, and kicked myself for not including it to begin with.

 

They believe they know what His Imperium would be without the Heresy, because they have been told a version of it by their founder. Even if their original founding scripture is not accurate, it doesn't matter to them as the Traitors stuffed it all up anyway, if you get me. To boil it down, to them it's not the actual whole-cloth knowledge of the Great Crusade, it's the concept and the fact that the Emperors work was sabotaged so bitterly by his own Sons and worse, by their erstwhile cousins. While you can say this is true of all loyalists, I wanted to double down on the idea given the concept of having an original legionarre basically espouse (through his own bitterness and experience) how truly low the Imperium was brought by this act, not just the assumption of the fall.

 

Originally I had in mind a survivor of, I think it's Calth(?) from the Ultramarines. They got laid low, they got misled and weren't there to defend the Emperor when he needed them most. This also brings in another aspect, having these guys be mostly secular (as secular as they can be in the 42nd millennium) and with the biggest axe to grind against the Word Bearers, the religious nut traitors, just like their potential gene-sires. Pit cold hatred and logic against blind faith and fanatacism. However that's a bit down the rabbit hole from here.

 

I wasn't going to say explicitly that they've got it wrong per-se, just that perhaps chinese-whispers over the years have exaggerated what they think to be true. Though in general as an idea that's exactly where I was going! yes.gif

 

 

 

Ooooohh MY TURN MY TURNmsn-wink.gif biggrin.png

 

I like the heraldry and livery lotsthumbsup.gif

 

Posted Today, 07:18 AM

 

Maybe you choose Dark Angels as Chapter where yours hail from.

 

Unless you want to avoid the hunt for the fallen intrigue.

 

I think:

 
Ultra-no-nonsense, military minded.
 
Efficiency is striven for, however victory with the best possible outcome is prized above all else.
 
….fits well with Ultramarine gene-seed wub.gif (not that I'm biased).
 
Burning hatred for traitors and the dispensing of His Golden age of Enlightenment (requires founding by original legion member).
 
Ultramarines can have burning hatred too yaknow ...... and as far as "dispensing of His Golden age of Enlightenment" goes, I think it doesn't have to be stated that each chapter has it's own vision of this, and of course they are EACH 100% right..... just ask those chapter members.
 
This isn't raven guard infiltration, this is true shock and awe. Drop Pod assault, operational air-dominance and surgical use of artillery and heavy weapons.
 
That's an interesting statement. Are you saying indirectly that the Storm Riders make extensive use of Vanguards and Scouts to soften up the enemy before the main assault or other Raven Guard tactics? Otherwise why even mention them?
 
Looks like a good start. I'm curious to see more..... and remember, Ultramarine successors have burning hatred tooyes.gif

 

 

Yes, Lunkhead, the Ultramarines were my first pick here, for once! sweat.gif

 

The reason I mention the Raven Guard is that to a lot of the 40k user-base, any kind of close-quarter or mildly-infiltration esque anything that isn't just a straight up melee for space marines is straight Raven Guard territory. Infiltration in a lot of modern military contexts is simply the positioning of forces or operators to gain the best advantage for the 'sharp' part of the operation. These guys are my vision, operationally, for how SM should fight. They are walking tanks with enhanced speed, firepower, aggression, intellect and awareness. Their main firearm is essentially a short-barreled weapon taken off of an AFV. Their strongest aspect is their overwhelming presence when they get on top of you and/or break through your lines.

 

Astartes may be able to fight absolutely effectively at long range and on open battlefields, but I feel this is where they wouldn't ever choose to fight, as it's their weakest operational deployment, the least amount of cover, the most amount of fire that can be levied against them individually and limiting casualties would be high in any Astartes commanders mind, given how valuable a single marine and his wargear is and how relatively hard they are to replace. Open warfare, doesn't matter how heavily armoured you are, if you're not in cover you're dead. Same is true here.

 

I'm not writing the reference to the RG as something to put in the final IA, not mentioning them at all would be best, but just for the sake of this dot-point work I've done here, I wanted to clearly separate the two.


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The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#7
Brother Lunkhead

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Posted Today, 04:36 PM

 

Yes, Lunkhead, the Ultramarines were my first pick here, for once! sweat.gif

wub.gif

 

…...Infiltration in a lot of modern military contexts is simply the positioning of forces or operators to gain the best advantage for the 'sharp' part of the operation. These guys are my vision, operationally, for how SM should fight. They are walking tanks with enhanced speed, firepower, aggression, intellect and awareness. Their main firearm is essentially a short-barreled weapon taken off of an AFV. Their strongest aspect is their overwhelming presence when they get on top of you and/or break through your lines.

 

Astartes may be able to fight absolutely effectively at long range and on open battlefields, but I feel this is where they wouldn't ever choose to fight, as it's their weakest operational deployment, the least amount of cover, the most amount of fire that can be levied against them individually and limiting casualties would be high in any Astartes commanders mind, given how valuable a single marine and his wargear is and how relatively hard they are to replace. Open warfare, doesn't matter how heavily armoured you are, if you're not in cover you're dead. Same is true here.

 

I love youlaugh.png woot.gif

 

That is absolutely how it should bewoot.gif woot.gif


Edited by Brother Lunkhead, 11 December 2019 - 12:01 AM.

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#8
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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I'm flattered Lunkhead, but the Emperor gives me all the sustenance I need. msn-wink.gif biggrin.png
 
I'm just glad someone agrees with me!
 
 
Organisation.
 
The chapters home fleet is one defensive in nature, the Storm Surge and the fleet anchor at the most strategically viable point within a sector, typically the chapter operates as a whole within one larger sphere of operations, but the companies themselves split off to pursue any crisis or calls for aid within the area. The leadership of the Storm Riders has always attempted to be stabilizers. They tackle any and all problems that are laid before them that they have the capacity to handle before the calls for aid from other sectors become too pressing to ignore.
 
Each company is self contained, is assigned it's own ships, serfs, arms-men or servitors that are needed to carry out whatever is under their remit in the region from what is available. Each company commander is responsible for their own cadre as well as the men of the company under their command. They are also given the right to draw from the specialized divisions of the chapter that call the fleet home, such as the Reclusiam, Librarium and Apothacarian, and so forth.
 
Vehicles, ships and equipment is drawn and rescinded depending on the tasks they see before them. Only the Chapter Master has the right to veto any request they may have, all other assets are to be shared as needed. It is common for a vehicle or even line weaponry to pass between several companies, each time gaining a mark or name to represent each campaign they have served in, the same as the Astartes that wield them.
 
 
[Below is meant to be a boxout, well it will be later anyway].
 
 
The Storm Surge
 
The chapters home is a now ancient Battle Barge, handed down to them by their gene-brothers after the death of the last soul of their training cadre, Ancient Vexillus. The Storm Riders returned the last son of Macragge and, moved by the chapters honour and loyalty, they were gifted with the Storm Surge as thanks. This relic of a bygone era has served the chapter well over the millennia and now serves as home and hearth for the Storm Riders. It is from here operations are planned, companies are assigned their resources and the captains view the current crisis in whatever sector in which they currently anchor.

Edited by Grey Hunter Ydalir, 11 December 2019 - 10:31 AM.

  • Brother Lunkhead likes this

The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#9
Brother Lunkhead

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I think your view on Astartes operational philosophy is spot on. One of the biggest frustrations I've had with the 40K-verse is the way Space Marines are generally depicted in combat dry.png (ok, it's really my biggest frustration). Many may find it more dramatic (including most of the writers apparently) facing hordes of enemies in open battlefields or in prolonged and grueling slugfests with high body countsfacepalm.png I've always found this rather silly. Very rarely do I see them play to their strengths. Well coordinated quick and violent surgical strikes where the only high body counts come on the side Astartes are pointing their bolters atwoot.gif should be the rule and not the exception.

 

You have an excellent grasp of how Space Marines can be optimally used to the greatest effect. 

 

 

Posted Today, 03:30 AM

 

 

Organisation.
 
The chapters home fleet is one defensive in nature, the Storm Surge and the fleet anchor at the most strategically viable point within a sector, typically the chapter operates as a whole within one larger sphere of operations, but the companies themselves split off to pursue any crisis or calls for aid within the area. The leadership of the Storm Riders has always attempted to be stabilizers. They tackle any and all problems that are laid before them that they have the capacity to handle before the calls for aid from other sectors become too pressing to ignore.
 
Each company is self contained, is assigned it's own ships, serfs, arms-men or servitors that are needed to carry out whatever is under their remit in the region from what is available. Each company commander is responsible for their own cadre as well as the men of the company under their command. They are also given the right to draw from the specialized divisions of the chapter that call the fleet home, such as the Reclusiam, Librarium and Apothacarian, and so forth.
 
Vehicles, ships and equipment is drawn and rescinded depending on the tasks they see before them. Only the Chapter Master has the right to veto any request they may have, all other assets are to be shared as needed. It is common for a vehicle or even line weaponry to pass between several companies, each time gaining a mark or name to represent each campaign they have served in, the same as the Astartes that wield them.

 

This is well thought out too. In fact it creeped me out a bit, as it is so close to how I envision deployment of my own chapter, the Praetorian Sword, as well as combat doctrineeek.gif  Fortunately, we have more than enough differences to distinguish them. I'd better get with it and post more so I don't get accused of copying your ideasph34r.png tongue.png

 

The Storm Surge
 
The chapters home is a now ancient Battle Barge, handed down to them by their gene-brothers after the death of the last soul of their training cadre, Ancient Vexillus. The Storm Riders returned the last son of Macragge and, moved by the chapters honour and loyalty, they were gifted with the Storm Surge as thanks. This relic of a bygone era has served the chapter well over the millennia and now serves as home and hearth for the Storm Riders. It is from here operations are planned, companies are assigned their resources and the captains view the current crisis in whatever sector in which they currently anchor.

 

This is a nice touch too. Do the Storm Riders just have the one battle barge? My chapter has three. The primary battle barge, the Fury of Terra acting as HHQ and central C2. The other two can deploy separately and act as theatre C2 as well as  supply and refit hubs for two battle companies each and any support units.

 

Going back to the beginning for a moment:

 

….dispensing of His Golden age of Enlightenment

 

That's a tall order. How do the Storm Riders plan on doing this?

 

I'm looking forward to seeing moreyes.gif ..... and remember......

 

Burning hatred isn't just for the other guybiggrin.png


Edited by Brother Lunkhead, 11 December 2019 - 11:17 PM.

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#10
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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*snip*

 

The Storm Surge
 
The chapters home is a now ancient Battle Barge, handed down to them by their gene-brothers after the death of the last soul of their training cadre, Ancient Vexillus. The Storm Riders returned the last son of Macragge and, moved by the chapters honour and loyalty, they were gifted with the Storm Surge as thanks. This relic of a bygone era has served the chapter well over the millennia and now serves as home and hearth for the Storm Riders. It is from here operations are planned, companies are assigned their resources and the captains view the current crisis in whatever sector in which they currently anchor.

 

This is a nice touch too. Do the Storm Riders just have the one battle barge? My chapter has three. The primary battle barge, the Fury of Terra acting as HHQ and central C2. The other two can deploy separately and act as theatre C2 as well as  supply and refit hubs for two battle companies each and any support units.

 

Going back to the beginning for a moment:

 

….dispensing of His Golden age of Enlightenment

 

That's a tall order. How do the Storm Riders plan on doing this?

 

I'm looking forward to seeing moreyes.gif ..... and remember......

 

Burning hatred isn't just for the other guybiggrin.png

 

In terms of the Astartes and how they're written, I agree wholeheartedly. I prefer any story involving Astartes where they're operating solely as a five man unit, or small task force, as they're forced even by the author to limit their weaknesses and rely on their strengths to win the day, rather than just having a 'rule of cool' battle.

 

Even though my Blazing Sons are a more traditional (in GW narrative terms) chapter than the Storm Riders, I still have them operate in very small units, far flung from home. They don't have anyone to reinforce them, so they must by necessity work to their strengths, so the use of effective tactics is meant to be heavily implied, especially as ultra-survivalist-pragmatists.

 

I'm glad I've found someone to fight my corner finally!

 

 

Now for the Storm Surge, I haven't done a balancing of the Storm Riders fleet assets, but I'd say given how long the chapter has been around, I'd imagine they have more than one, I had Storm Surge +2, mainly because the Surge itself doesn't usually engage in combat operations unless a truly monumental task is ahead of the chapter, or they're attacked directly and are unable to disengage. Any more than that and it becomes a bit OP, but any less given how they operate would perhaps prove detrimental. I'd also imagine they would work together when needed in Void or Orbital engagements, so the necessity to have any more heavy mobile heavy hitters just isn't there.

 

A lot of people also tend to forget the strain a large ship will place on the chapters resources just to maintain and operate it. Battle Barges are massive ships and the crew and material needed to keep them running is immense. This is a very old chapter, therefore I can justify their reputation and the support contracts needed to operate effectively, but too much for only a thousand warriors isn't justified. I'd probably bump it up to three if it seemed like they needed it as I develop them, but that's as far as I'd go, Strike Cruisers themselves being perfectly capable, varied and able to be coordinated with escorts in the same way as the Astartes themselves.

 

 

And finally, the dispensing of His Imperium, I may have mis-worded that, it was a run on sentence.

"A blind hatred for those who dispensed with the Emperors vision for the Imperium and cast humanity aside so callously."  - would be a better, more narrative version of what I intended to say. Sure they'd like to rebuild it, who wouldn't? But that's not necessarily the objective, nor is it logically achievable. Though perhaps an unspoken goal, which is why they're so driven to stabilize the regions they show up in.


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The Octaguide.
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Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#11
Brother Lunkhead

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Posted Yesterday, 10:27 PM

 

I'm glad I've found someone to fight my corner finally!

 

Happy to be therethumbsup.gif  Even though the 40Kverse really is pretty gonzo, I try to inject some practical realism in it when I can.

 

Now for the Storm Surge, I haven't done a balancing of the Storm Riders fleet assets, but I'd say given how long the chapter has been around, I'd imagine they have more than one, I had Storm Surge +2, mainly because the Surge itself doesn't usually engage in combat operations unless a truly monumental task is ahead of the chapter, or they're attacked directly and are unable to disengage. Any more than that and it becomes a bit OP, but any less given how they operate would perhaps prove detrimental. I'd also imagine they would work together when needed in Void or Orbital engagements, so the necessity to have any more heavy mobile heavy hitters just isn't there.

 

As you pointed out in my thread, it probably isn't necessary to go into too much detail on fleet order of battle and disposition. However it's always good to have more detailed background in your head than on the page. That way you know all of the how's and why's.

 

A lot of people also tend to forget the strain a large ship will place on the chapters resources just to maintain and operate it. Battle Barges are massive ships and the crew and material needed to keep them running is immense. This is a very old chapter, therefore I can justify their reputation and the support contracts needed to operate effectively, but too much for only a thousand warriors isn't justified. I'd probably bump it up to three if it seemed like they needed it as I develop them, but that's as far as I'd go, Strike Cruisers themselves being perfectly capable, varied and able to be coordinated with escorts in the same way as the Astartes themselves.

 

Very trueyes.gif It's nice to have all of the coolest bling for my chapter, but I have to justify it and be able to support it. If I can't, then it's...…… Requisition: DENIEDsad.png tongue.png

 

 

And finally, the dispensing of His Imperium, I may have mis-worded that, it was a run on sentence.

"A blind hatred for those who dispensed with the Emperors vision for the Imperium and cast humanity aside so callously."  - would be a better, more narrative version of what I intended to say. Sure they'd like to rebuild it, who wouldn't? But that's not necessarily the objective, nor is it logically achievable. Though perhaps an unspoken goal, which is why they're so driven to stabilize the regions they show up in.

 

That makes more sense. However, instead of "blind hatred" you might want to say that the Storm Riders have a "burning" or "smoldering hatred" instead. This may seem like a bit of minor nitpickery, but being the practical minded and level headed chaps that they are, the adjective sort of conflicts with that trait.

 

….and here I thought I was done with "burning hatred" jokes. But for the last time (we hope) even level headed Ultramarine successors feel burning hatredbiggrin.png


Edited by Brother Lunkhead, 14 December 2019 - 04:09 AM.

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#12
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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I just drafted a new section.

 

It feels a bit rough and choppy, I'll see if I can do a second draft soonish, but I wanted to get this out and keep the progress rolling, even if it is a bit bumpy.

 

Recruitment

 

"A true warrior fights not only because he hates what is before him, but because he loves what is behind him."

 

Given the Storm Riders lack of any one world or system to draw from, their recruitment practices have been adapted to their nature and draw recruits from whatever region in which they are currently operating. In any other circumstance, drawing recruits in this manner wouldn't be unusual for a fleet-based chapter, however the Storm Riders do not search for feral worlds, nor do they demand tithe or raid under-hives. In the pursuit of stability, the chapter draws recruits from the worlds they fight for.

 

Imperial worlds under threat are the chapters best source of potential recruits for the chapter. The psychological sway the Storm Riders hold over a population that has now seen the fabled Astartes of legend fight for them, spill their own angelic blood to save them, the honour of becoming one of them and punishing those that made them and theirs suffer is a heady cocktail for your average imperial citizen. The orphans of the conflict, the numbers of which on Imperial worlds are usually far higher than many of a softer soul would like to countenance. Only in times of desperation or extreme loss does the chapter entreat the families that remain.

 

Worlds being brought into compliance are similar in many ways, except instead of the Astartes being their saviors, they are truly seen as the avenging angels of a mythical Emperor on Terra. Great pains are taken to reinforce the shock and awe of the Astartes actions on the world, with set piece objectives being pursued that hold only a value to the native population, with the aim of fear, awe and submission in mind.

 

Regardless of the world in question, the Storm Riders will not countenance taking what they need without consent. The recruits are the lifeblood of their chapter and they must be driven to make the sacrifice that ascendance requires. Not least though are the ramifications on the quality of recruits themselves, as a willing applicant is far easier to train and more receptive to the surgeries and psycho-conditioning used in an Astartes creation.

 

The Chapter does not completely wipe away all traces of the initiates home and culture. While some clarity is lost due to the trauma of an applicant's ascension, the Storm Riders want their warriors to remember why they are fighting, and how His Astartes can change the galaxy. The beliefs of their founder heavily influence this process, a warrior who's borderline obsession with what humanity had lost with the decline of His Imperium.

 

With the end of a campaign comes an influx of recruits. From the moment they arrive they're broken out of whatever cultural or social groups they may have formed and are assigned a new group or 'section', made up of other inductees selected specifically by their new masters to build commonality as well as friction between the individuals as their sections are taken through the process of becoming a Space Marine. Over time they are encouraged to let their pain, their trauma be transformed and build them into better warriors. As the sections mature physically and emotionally, they find common ground and are also at this crucial juncture given over to study on the tenets of the Storm Riders, their philosophies and the teachings of the chapters founder.

As they begin to emotionally invest in each other, if nothing else than for their survival and success, they begin to take in and assimilate the cultural bedrock of the chapter, and are encouraged to use it practically in their training.

 

Once they cross the threshold into becoming a 'true' Astartes, they have been distanced from their origins yet without forgetting them. Viewed as if from another life, they are taught to draw an understanding and knowledge from their past. Those drawn from worlds forced into compliance often find an affinity for the main battle-line and assault roles, while those drawn from the population of the Storm Surge tend to follow their natural traits towards the Forge and Devestator companies. Finally, those from Imperial worlds being defended or rescued tend to find themselves drawn to the Reclusiam and the Apothacarian.

 

Even in their creation, the Storm Riders undercurrent of maximizing the strengths of their warriors and their chapter are evident above all else.


Edited by Grey Hunter Ydalir, 28 December 2019 - 12:13 AM.

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The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#13
Bjorn Firewalker

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I'm glad you put in the effort to think through the consequences of the Storm Riders' choices- something all competent writers should do for their characters. (Glares at J. J. Abrams and Rian Johnson for EPIC FAILing to do the same.)
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Wolf Scout- Catachan barking toad eggs+ Thousand Sons Marine= Fun! (Wolves of Catachan)

Warhammer 40,000+ Star Wars- Rian Johnson- Reylo= AWESOME! (Knights of Renaissance)

Reasons to use the Steel Crusaders ('Codex: Space Marines' supplement) or the Iron-hearted Angels ('Codex: Blood Angels' supplement): Because you think giving Sternguard Veterans a heavy bolter wtih special issue HEAVY BOLTER ammunition is ALMOST as much fun as shoehorning an Earthshaker cannon into a Land Raider.

#14
Brother Lunkhead

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I generally like what you have going for your chapter's recruitment philosophy, but I think they are going to have trouble here:

 

Worlds being brought into compliance are similar in many ways, except instead of the Astartes being their saviors, they are truly seen as the avenging angels of a mythical Emperor on Terra. Great pains are taken to reinforce the shock and awe of the Astartes actions on the world, with set piece objectives being pursued that hold only a value to the native population, with the aim of fear, awe and submission in mind.

 

When it comes to this:

 

Regardless of the world in question, the Storm Riders will not countenance taking what they need without consent.

 

…..this:

 

The Chapter also does not completely wipe away all traces of the initiates home and culture.

 

….and this:

 

"A true warrior fights not only because he hates what is before him, but because he loves what is behind him."

 

This strategy may work for a world being brought into compliance that is being liberated from some oppressive tyrant or malevolent xeno race, but a world in rebellion against the Imperium, or a newly discovered "lost" human civilization/primitive population that must be subjugated into the Imperial fold will be a  lot more complicated.

This will be especially true using tactics along these lines: with set piece objectives being pursued that hold only a value to the native population, with the aim of fear, awe and submission in mind.

 

The Storm Riders may achieve these objectives and instill feelings of "fear, awe, and submission" into the native population, but more likely than not they will instill deep resentment and hatred as will, which will eventually override the first three effects without extensive and time consuming (decades) reeducation and indoctrination.

 

In such a population you will find very few families willing to give up their sons to these monstrous conquerors. Also, adolescent boys of the appropriate age will more likely than not hold the same values and ideas as their parents no matter how appealing the idea of becoming a giant space knight doing battle across the galaxy might be. They too will hate and fear the Storm Riders.

 

Most certainly you will find willing collaborators among the population that meet acceptable physical standards, more likely than not they will not meet acceptable psychological standards.

 

On the whole it's a sound philosophy, but it may need just a little tweak here and theremsn-wink.gif


Edited by Brother Lunkhead, 21 December 2019 - 07:42 PM.

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Grey Hunter Ydalir

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I generally like what you have going for your chapter's recruitment philosophy, but I think they are going to have trouble here:

 

Worlds being brought into compliance are similar in many ways, except instead of the Astartes being their saviors, they are truly seen as the avenging angels of a mythical Emperor on Terra. Great pains are taken to reinforce the shock and awe of the Astartes actions on the world, with set piece objectives being pursued that hold only a value to the native population, with the aim of fear, awe and submission in mind.

 

When it comes to this:

 

Regardless of the world in question, the Storm Riders will not countenance taking what they need without consent.

 

…..this:

 

The Chapter also does not completely wipe away all traces of the initiates home and culture.

 

….and this:

 

"A true warrior fights not only because he hates what is before him, but because he loves what is behind him."

 

This strategy may work for a world being brought into compliance that is being liberated from some oppressive tyrant or malevolent xeno race, but a world in rebellion against the Imperium, or a newly discovered "lost" human civilization/primitive population that must be subjugated into the Imperial fold will be a  lot more complicated.

This will be especially true using tactics along these lines: with set piece objectives being pursued that hold only a value to the native population, with the aim of fear, awe and submission in mind.

 

The Storm Riders may achieve these objectives and instill feelings of "fear, awe, and submission" into the native population, but more likely than not they will instill deep resentment and hatred as will, which will eventually override the first three effects without extensive and time consuming (decades) reeducation and indoctrination.

 

In such a population you will find very few families willing to give up their sons to these monstrous conquerors. Also, adolescent boys of the appropriate age will more likely than not hold the same values and ideas as their parents no matter how appealing the idea of becoming a giant space knight doing battle across the galaxy might be. They too will hate and fear the Storm Riders.

 

Most certainly you will find willing collaborators among the population that meet acceptable physical standards, more likely than not they will not meet acceptable psychological standards.

 

On the whole it's a sound philosophy, but it may need just a little tweak here and theremsn-wink.gif

 

You know, on the whole I'd agree with you, if the chapter was going to set up a keep and return to the world on occasion to draw recruits.

 

As it stands, on worlds brought into compliance, if they take the orphans of the war, not only is it easier on the remaining population in terms of resource rationing (especially for a portion of the population that cannot pull it's weight to rebuild), but these children in many ways may not have the same bias' drilled into them, especially if they take even those too young to be inducted right away, it allows them time to be drawn in culturally to the chapter.

 

I agree, it could be seen as problematic, but I view that as a risk taken under belief of principal.

 

To bring it back to canon interpretations, a lot of the chapters are aloof and feared by the populations of their homeworld. They are the demons in the dark who steal children. You can't say that the risk of resentment isn't there, as most chapters that have a homeworld are in some way influenced by the culture of the world and as such are not always completely mind-wiped either. The minds of youths are incredibly pliable and aren't really that prone to hold grudges, unlike adults.

 

It's the kind of diplomatic effort that someone who has been disconnected from mortal humanity would make. It could easily be taken the wrong way, and probably is, but the presence of the Administratum, Ecclesiarchy and the culture shock involved would help, as well as the inability to fight those making the request and the fear of their abilities.

 

To summarise, I see your points and I agree, but only in so far as that this would apply to almost all Astartes Chapters that aren't more humanity-focused like the Salamanders or Ultramarines. Or so heavily mythisied by the population like the Space Wolves or Blood Angels. This applies to almost all others. Hell, the Black Templars are a good example.

 

To counter, internally, the Storm Riders would have extensive teachings from 'history', teachings again written by legionaries who lived during Unification and the Heresy.

 

How accurate these teachings are is another question, how biased or coloured by emotion and time they are, but that is what is taught nonetheless. And here I've written myself into agreeing and needing to add a paragraph explaining this.

 

I see your tricks, Lunkheadmsn-wink.gif


The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#16
Brother Lunkhead

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All fine points, and I think your general strategy is good. My problem (at least this problem... I have so manyyes.gif ermm.gif) really just stems from one point in your strategy, and it may just be a misinterpretation  on my part. As stated in my last post, it comes from here:

 

 

Posted 20 December 2019 - 05:55 PM

 

Worlds being brought into compliance are similar in many ways, except instead of the Astartes being their saviors, they are truly seen as the avenging angels of a mythical Emperor on Terra. Great pains are taken to reinforce the shock and awe of the Astartes actions on the world, with set piece objectives being pursued that hold only a value to the native population, with the aim of fear, awe and submission in mind.

 

Are you talking about something more than military objectives? Perhaps something of great cultural significance (a holy city, monuments, certain groups or classes of people held in esteem, etc.), something which if damaged or destroyed would cause great trauma and force capitulation. If we are just talking military objectives and I'm just squabbling over vague phrasing, then never mind. Military necessity is what it is, and with time and indoctrination this trauma can heal. However, if the Strom Riders are striking directly at the culture, this can create deep seated hatred that no amount of time and indoctrination can heal. In these dark times of the 40Kverse this kind of hatred is ripe for exploitation by Chaos and the xeno races. Remember how this worked out for the Imperium with the raising of Monarchia.

 

 

Posted 21 December 2019 - 03:43 PM

 

 

As it stands, on worlds brought into compliance, if they take the orphans of the war, not only is it easier on the remaining population in terms of resource rationing (especially for a portion of the population that cannot pull it's weight to rebuild), but these children in many ways may not have the same bias' drilled into them, especially if they take even those too young to be inducted right away, it allows them time to be drawn in culturally to the chapter.

 

I agree, it could be seen as problematic, but I view that as a risk taken under belief of principal.

 

This isn't necessarily problematic. On the whole this strategy should work, provided your provide for additional indoctrination and more aggressive memory wipes. Traumatic memories of their world's conquest and the death of their families will not serve the needs of the chapter or these orphans. Cultural biases don't need to be drilled into young children. Even at an early age these things are imprinted by family and general observation, even if they cannot fully articulate them. Being traumatically ripped out of this familiar environment can create deep rage and anger which in this case will be directed at the Storm Riders.

 

The minds of youths are incredibly pliable and aren't really that prone to hold grudges, unlike adults.

 

This is an old trope that is falling into disuse. 

 

To bring it back to canon interpretations, a lot of the chapters are aloof and feared by the populations of their homeworld. They are the demons in the dark who steal children. You can't say that the risk of resentment isn't there, as most chapters that have a homeworld are in some way influenced by the culture of the world and as such are not always completely mind-wiped either.       

 

I'm not saying resentment isn't there. I'm saying the deep hatred and uncertain knowledge the Astartes and the Imperium are the enemy isn't there. There's a big difference in fear and awe tempered by respect and fear and awe tempered by hate.

 

To summarise, I see your points and I agree, but only in so far as that this would apply to almost all Astartes Chapters that aren't more humanity-focused like the Salamanders or Ultramarines. Or so heavily mythisied by the population like the Space Wolves or Blood Angels. This applies to almost all others. Hell, the Black Templars are a good example.

 

True, but the Storm Riders aren't like those chapters, are they? They are more like the Salamanders or Ultramarinesmsn-wink.gif

 

Running out of time.... gotta go. That's it though ,for the most part.


Edited by Brother Lunkhead, 24 December 2019 - 02:44 AM.

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#17
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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The Fleet.

 

The Storm Riders don't just view the fleet as their home, but the Storm Surge itself takes the place in their collective psyche that a homeworld would in a more traditional chapter. This ship, a direct link to their founder and his legion from the Great Crusade. The fleet itself is made up of two Battle-Barge class capital ships, ten Strike Cruisers and approximately twenty escorts depending on potential combat losses.

 

Known simply as 'The Fleet' within the chapter, it is their home and hearth, the heart of the chapter. In the Storm Surge they learn about their founder and first chapter master, his tenets and the will and mission he passed on to his brothers. The fleet itself houses a community made up of the armsmen and serfs who tend to the ships and wargear of the chapter, as well as crew and defend them. The Storm Surge has been given remit to house and maintain such a population under the Storm Riders, the ship itself being regarded as the chapters homeworld under Imperial records. Despite this designation, the ship doesn't produce anywhere near enough recruits for the chapter to be self-sustaining, though it does provide enough for the chapter to prevent being crippled after a disaster and slowly replenish some of their number, even while on the move.

 

The serfs that crew the ships and call them home are very much generational, their families are raised upon the Storm Surge and all they will ever know is service in the fleet, dedicating their entire lives to supporting it. Whether they are agri-harvesters in the food-bays, line-smiths for the forge or pilots and armsmen, for all intent and purpose this is their home. The Astartes are the lords and avenging angels that live beyond them, their minds eternally turned to the will of the Emperor.

While the Storm Riders themselves highly value their serfs and workers and are grateful for their service, they do not live nor mix with the people. Theirs is a life of constant training and study of war and the philosophies and strategies related to them. While this is not true of every brother of the chapter, the leaders of the companies and even some Sergeants and Lieutenants will build a rapport with those they interact with, they are far from the disposition of the Salamanders, and won't hesitate to sacrifice their serfs as well as themselves if the situation calls for it.

 

At the end of the day, the Fleet is their home and one they'll fight for as viciously as any terrestrially-bound chapter.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

It's rough, I know, but I had the idea for the fleet rattling round in my head and I needed to put 'pen to paper' as it were.

 

What came out as I was writing is how 'Battlestar Galactica' (new) this was turning into.

 

I didn't really see it coming, but their founder seems very much like Admiral Adama in terms of reverence held, while the Storm Surge seems to encapsulate the Galactica's role as the linchpin of the fleet. It is far older and arguably as powerful as any other capital ship in the fleet and even serves the Galactica's role as a fleet-carrier and command ship.

 

I didn't actually mean for it to become 'Battlestar Galactica Marines' but I can't say I'm displeased. I think the approach, while obviously derivative is exactly what I'm looking for.


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The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#18
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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Are you talking about something more than military objectives? Perhaps something of great cultural significance (a holy city, monuments, certain groups or classes of people held in esteem, etc.), something which if damaged or destroyed would cause great trauma and force capitulation. If we are just talking military objectives and I'm just squabbling over vague phrasing, then never mind. Military necessity is what it is, and with time and indoctrination this trauma can heal. However, if the Strom Riders are striking directly at the culture, this can create deep seated hatred that no amount of time and indoctrination can heal. In these dark times of the 40Kverse this kind of hatred is ripe for exploitation by Chaos and the xeno races. Remember how this worked out for the Imperium with the raising of Monarchia.

 

 

I see this, absolutely and to a point I'd agree. Alright, in reality any target can be a 'military target' if you're talking about prosecuting a campaign and the intent to defeat the enemy. If you attack and break down targets that support an opponents morale and will to fight among the population then it's fair game. There is a fine line of distinction between sapping your opponents morale and creating a common point to bond an enemy against you, which is something so often lost not just on civilians but even on modern military leaders. For any psy-ops like this to be truly effective you have to pair it with a hearts-and-minds campaign to rob the enemy of his support base.

 

To put it in modern terms, don't bomb mosques and churches, protect the population that wishes to use them while simultaneously (ideally at a moment where it can be seen and retold) utterly destroy an enemy fortress or assault so completely that the shock of how brutal and effective it is that those who are fighting are deluded, and that your rule is absolutely the best way to live. I'd point to the British Special Forces in Borneo as to the use of a hearts and minds campaign.

 

Anyway I'm rambling. It's a fine line and you're not going to please everyone, unfortunately.

 

This is an old trope that is falling into disuse. 

 

 

Trope or not it's true. Let's put it like this, it's easier to de-program a child soldier than an adult fanatic. Is this always the case? No, definitely not, the mind is complex and there is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to dealing with trauma. As harsh as it sounds, some of that trauma can be manipulated to benefit the Astartes.

 

This school of thinking has been opined by many over human history. Most recently in 2017 by General Mattis, termed PTG or Post-traumatic Growth. It is the phenomenon that a traumatic experience actually causes you to be more empathetic toward your fellow man. It was in regards to PTSD in veterans but I'll pseudo-science my way over to a 40k relation. This being understood and exploited by Astartes fits with their indoctrination practices, and allows them to use such experience to the benefit of their warriors, not the detriment. Resentment and rage are more commonly associated with untreated PTSD and general resentment due to other personality flaws, seen in children when left untreated. This would be something to be used and turned to the Astartes benefit, to my mind.

 

If they see their parents blown apart in front of them by a Storm Rider, sure that'd be a horrific trauma, though not a likely one given how they operate.

 

Being traumatically ripped out of this familiar environment can create deep rage and anger which in this case will be directed at the Storm Riders.

 

 

Absolutely, but this can be used to their advantage during training being gradually broken down and replaced with a mindset and understanding of the Storm Riders, and what and how the chapter wants them to think. Without extensive trials, those with enough of a will to continue on, with their anger directed at the chapter initially, it would be very useful as long as it can be effectively directed and used to the benefit of the recruit.

 

Include with this the breaking up of cultural groups, and mixing recruits from all backgrounds and forcing them to work together.

 

 

At the end of the day the Imperium is a dark place and so is the 40k universe. With enough conditioning these children of war could and according to the chapter, should view their previous lives as instructive. It's learning first hand the folly of standing against the Imperium, which is useful in of itself.

 

 

I realize I sound like I'm heartless, but the truth is quite the opposite and I wear my heart quite visibly on my sleeve. I simply look at the data first, before anything else.

 

The data usually bears this out. Most people lie, about everything, especially to an authority figure. Honesty is rare, as is self-reflection and extended, true empathy towards anyone outside of your social bubble. It's just how we are. Doesn't make us evil, but that data makes the ability to judge your motives or read your behavior much easier.

 

 

I appreciate the critique Lunkhead, it forces me to articulate my thinking rather than just taking it as being understood as-read. If you're questioning it then at least ten others must be thinking it, as the expression goes. I'll try and write it up a little more clearly, but I'm trying to not just write an essay on each heading before I've even got the broad strokes of the article finished up.


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The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#19
Brother Lunkhead

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Excellent responses ALLyes.gif thumbsup.gif

 

I especially liked these:

 

Posted Yesterday, 10:32 PM

 

This is an old trope that is falling into disuse. 

 

 

Trope or not it's true. Let's put it like this, it's easier to de-program a child soldier than an adult fanatic. Is this always the case? No, definitely not, the mind is complex and there is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to dealing with trauma. As harsh as it sounds, some of that trauma can be manipulated to benefit the Astartes.

 

This school of thinking has been opined by many over human history. Most recently in 2017 by General Mattis, termed PTG or Post-traumatic Growth. It is the phenomenon that a traumatic experience actually causes you to be more empathetic toward your fellow man. It was in regards to PTSD in veterans but I'll pseudo-science my way over to a 40k relation. This being understood and exploited by Astartes fits with their indoctrination practices, and allows them to use such experience to the benefit of their warriors, not the detriment. Resentment and rage are more commonly associated with untreated PTSD and general resentment due to other personality flaws, seen in children when left untreated. This would be something to be used and turned to the Astartes benefit, to my mind.

 

If they see their parents blown apart in front of them by a Storm Rider, sure that'd be a horrific trauma, though not a likely one given how they operate.

 

Quote

Being traumatically ripped out of this familiar environment can create deep rage and anger which in this case will be directed at the Storm Riders.

 

 

Absolutely, but this can be used to their advantage during training being gradually broken down and replaced with a mindset and understanding of the Storm Riders, and what and how the chapter wants them to think. Without extensive trials, those with enough of a will to continue on, with their anger directed at the chapter initially, it would be very useful as long as it can be effectively directed and used to the benefit of the recruit.

 

Include with this the breaking up of cultural groups, and mixing recruits from all backgrounds and forcing them to work together.

 

These are the most complicated issues and you addressed each one perfectly IMO. 

 

My comment about the "trope" was blunt, and I hope you weren't offended by that. I see this particular one too often as a brush-off in the vein of "don't worry, it'll be fine".

You thought this one out very well and I completely agree.

 

I appreciate the critique Lunkhead, it forces me to articulate my thinking rather than just taking it as being understood as-read.

 

That's what I was aftermsn-wink.gif It's good  to see that your strategic thinking is just as sharp as your tactical thinking.

 

Happy Holidaysbiggrin.png


Edited by Brother Lunkhead, 24 December 2019 - 06:15 PM.

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#20
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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I updated the recruitment slightly, to try and work in at least a few lines on addressing what we were discussing above.

 

I'm also trying to draw as much information about the Heresy era Ultramarines Legion, to either pick or create a named founder for my chapter. It'd have to be someone who survived the scouring until at least the third founding. 

 

My knowledge of such things is limited. I'm not even sure a Heresy era Legionnaire would still be alive by the time of the third or fourth founding. The only one I know of is Aeonid Thiel, who is suggested to still be alive in M41, somehow.

 

As an example in that vein, it could be let's say one of his 'Red Marked' who has kept the unit functioning and passing down his methods and views, who eventually end up with the Storm Riders, perhaps.

 

I'm not as sure what to do on this point.

 

In my earlier piece on the Fleet he took on a somewhat 'Admiral Adama' level of adoration and almost mythical status among his peers and subordinates. Really I have two ways of going about this, that he's been put on a pedestal by the generations to follow and mythicised, or his works were similar to Big Bobby G in that they were taken and studied as treatises, additions to works like the Codex as it were. 

 

I'm open to advice if anyone has some. Thanks!


The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#21
Brother Lunkhead

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There are lots of named XIII Legion marines in Know No Fear (and some of them even survivemsn-wink.gif). Any of the HH novel or stories dealing with the XIII Legion will be good references. I'll provide a short list below. However, to avoid canon conflict, you might consider looking at these lists of survivors as names to avoid using and making one up. As the Ultramarines were somewhat decimated at Calth, and no doubt suffered more casualties as the HH went on, legion chapters and companies were probably reorganized from time to time to optimize organizational effectiveness, so you could quite easily make up a higher numbered chapter that your Storm Riders are founded from.

 

 

Posted Yesterday, 12:28 AM

 

The only one I know of is Aeonid Thiel, who is suggested to still be alive in M41, somehow.

 

I've seen no evidence of this.

 

…...or his works were similar to Big Bobby G in that they were taken and studied as treatises, additions to works like the Codex as it were. 

 

I think this is the way to go.

 

These might be of some help:

 

The First Heretic

Know No Fear

Macragge's Honor (comic book)

Battle for the Abyss

Mark of Calth (anthology)

Garro: Oath of Moment (audio)

The Unremembered Empire

Deathfire

Pharos

Ruinstorm

The Atonement of Fire (short story)

Illyrium (audio)

Spear of Ultramar (novella)

Rules of Engagement (short story)

Laurel of Defiance (short story)

Censure (audio)

Stratagem (audio)

Red-Marked (audio)

Nightfane (audio)

The Aegidan Oath (short story)

 

A lot to be sure, but useful fluff.


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#22
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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I've read some of the Heresy books, and I have a backlog of 40k books longer than my arm, hopefully I'll get to them soon.

 

I'll have a quick look through some synopsis and see if I can grab some details without sinking my time into a whole book just for the IA. However, I'll get there.

 

I was considering just creating something out of nothing, but having something to ground them, rather than just taking what I want from official material was in my head, though I think it's less relevant than what I'd originally ascribed to it.


The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix





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