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Souping in CSM?

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22 replies to this topic

#1
dbecer01

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I've been contemplating souping in some of the cool new marine sculpts. Do you guys recommend getting 3 of the start collecing boxes, or getting the Christmas battleforce box instead?

 

Or, recommend staying away from CSM soup?



#2
Archaeinox

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I think it depends on what sort of gaps you need to fill.

 

If you want CP to feed TS, try the corsairs?


Edited by Archaeinox, 12 December 2019 - 02:17 AM.

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#3
dbecer01

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Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'd have to go basic with them, because they don't get Votlw



#4
MegaVolt87

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Get yourself that sweet AT you lack with 12 lascannon havocs using the tzeench renegades from Vigilus Ablaze in a devestation battery detachment. 


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#5
dbecer01

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How did you know that my AT was bad?


Edited by dbecer01, 12 December 2019 - 03:09 AM.


#6
MegaVolt87

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How did you know that my AT was bad?


I have read all chaos related codexs, TS has no good ranged AT. Plus there is nothing like SM doctrines currently to discourage soup so it's open season for chaos soup. DG can also use the purge with 12 lascannon devestation battery as they lack AT as well. Been maiming chaos since 3rd edition, so that helps me out too.
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#7
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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Get yourself that sweet AT you lack with 12 lascannon havocs using the tzeench renegades from Vigilus Ablaze in a devestation battery detachment.


Or CP and AT at the same time with a bunch of Lascannon/Combi-Plas minimum CSM squads. One reroll per unit means tons of Lascannons that reroll everything. Of course, Havocs are super tempting because of the out of turn shooting from the detachment, combined with the area denial strat from the Scourged and their 5+ Overwatch.
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#8
WarriorFish

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Indeed, if you want to pull in allies then the best options are what you can't do, or can't do very well. As noted Thousand Sons suffer from no long ranged AT so this is an easy fit for a CSM allied force :) Otherwise it's also a good excuse to add some models that don't exist in the Sons codex if you want :tu:


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#9
Raven1

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Las/Missile Havocs in a Spearhead detachment could work for long range AT. 3 squads with a Dark Apostle and a cheap Chaos Lord would be very accurate.

Although with the Scourged ability I'm not sure you need a Lord for the re-rolls since each model can re-roll the Hit roll if I'm not mistaken. That would make it a task cheaper still around 600 points though.

Honestly, I think prefer Chaos Knights instead. War dogs are cheaper now and have access to D3 autocannons and the CA2019 the Chaos Knight with the big laser destructor is cheaper and gives re-rolls to the Wardogs.

Edited by Raven1, 12 December 2019 - 07:15 PM.

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#10
dbecer01

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Thanks for the info guys. This is really helpful to me.

#11
byrd9999

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Just curious... do people not consider the Predator good for Thousand Sons anti-tank?

 

I was planning to incorporate a 4-lascannon Predator into my 50-Power Level T Sons army.


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#12
Prot

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It's not that Predators are bad, just other stuff has made them less attractive for a few reasons.

 

To be honest I really have wanted to try 2-3 Vindicators with their newer D6 shots each. All within range of a Noctlith Crown. That's been a goal of mine for a while that I haven't actually taken into play. I do like the sound of all that T8.

 

I play in a fairly competitive environment though and it's something I can see working fantastically or failing fantastically. lol


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#13
Archaeinox

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I use 3 predators frequently. Kill Shot only works if a variety of perameters line up:

1. You go first.

2. Your opponent is incapable of killing a predator (if they arent, new players probably cant handle killshot so why are you bringing 3 predators in a teaching game, silly goose?)



Lately ive just been bringing 2 and they perform fine as anti tank. Keep in mind i wont play guard tank spam or knight armies.

Edited by Archaeinox, 13 December 2019 - 02:05 PM.

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#14
Raven1

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I'm honestly thinking about souping in Word Bearer possessed mostly just for fun, but maybe they'll be worth it.

Terminator Lord with the Exalted Daemon trait and Ashen Claw so targets can't run from combat. A Master of Possession, and Dark Apostle in a Supreme Command Detachment with a unit of possessed. It could work.

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#15
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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It's not that Predators are bad, just other stuff has made them less attractive for a few reasons.

 

To be honest I really have wanted to try 2-3 Vindicators with their newer D6 shots each. All within range of a Noctlith Crown. That's been a goal of mine for a while that I haven't actually taken into play. I do like the sound of all that T8.

 

I play in a fairly competitive environment though and it's something I can see working fantastically or failing fantastically. lol

Temporal Manipulation to heal them, an escorting foot Daemon Prince for reroll 1's and close in defense, and Gaze of Fate to reroll shot count or damage on one of them might help. Even one Vindi with Gaze of Fate support might at least be an interesting threat at T8.


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#16
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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It's not that Predators are bad, just other stuff has made them less attractive for a few reasons.

 

To be honest I really have wanted to try 2-3 Vindicators with their newer D6 shots each. All within range of a Noctlith Crown. That's been a goal of mine for a while that I haven't actually taken into play. I do like the sound of all that T8.

 

I play in a fairly competitive environment though and it's something I can see working fantastically or failing fantastically. lol

Another alternative could be one unit of Scourged Obliterators or even Tzeentch Iron Warriors. They can be buffed with Flickering Flames for +1 to wound, in addition to many of other usual shenanigans and can get rerolls from our Princes because they have the "TZEENTCH" and "DAEMON" keywords even though they're a different Legion. They'd also benefit from Mutaliths if you're using those.

 

Flickering Flames, Prescience, and Rampant Technovirus with a TS Daemon Prince nearby will dish out some pain. Not quite on par with shooting twice, but it still hits hard and opens up defensive synergies as well.


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#17
CrystalSeer

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It's not that Predators are bad, just other stuff has made them less attractive for a few reasons.

 

To be honest I really have wanted to try 2-3 Vindicators with their newer D6 shots each. All within range of a Noctlith Crown. That's been a goal of mine for a while that I haven't actually taken into play. I do like the sound of all that T8.

 

I play in a fairly competitive environment though and it's something I can see working fantastically or failing fantastically. lol

Another alternative could be one unit of Scourged Obliterators or even Tzeentch Iron Warriors. They can be buffed with Flickering Flames for +1 to wound, in addition to many of other usual shenanigans and can get rerolls from our Princes because they have the "TZEENTCH" and "DAEMON" keywords even though they're a different Legion. They'd also benefit from Mutaliths if you're using those.

 

Flickering Flames, Prescience, and Rampant Technovirus with a TS Daemon Prince nearby will dish out some pain. Not quite on par with shooting twice, but it still hits hard and opens up defensive synergies as well.

 

 

I like the concept. How would you plan on getting them to the right place? Oblits deep strike easy enough, but the prince would require a Webway or DMC slot. That's a heavy trade.



#18
dbecer01

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I've never been able to use Temporal Manipulation. Usually, my Daemon Prince is murdered outright. One time, I periled with 1 wound and died, and usually healing 1-3 wounds in one turn doesn't make a difference. And preds don't have an invul, so against very abundant plasma in my meta, they would be saving on 6+s.

 

What about defilers or forgefiends?


Edited by dbecer01, 19 December 2019 - 02:56 AM.


#19
Heliomanes

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I think what we need more than anything is a functioning block of troops. Something durable to shield our characters and hold objectives, preferably with good enough range to contest numarines and cheap enough to have some board presence. Most competitive lists took plaguebearers to fill this role, while just souping in Thousand Sons characters for the smites and so on. I'm not sure if CSM can fill this void. Fingers crossed that we get some appropriate strats or buffs for our rubrics in Ritual of the Damned so they can fill this invaluable niche for us.


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#20
MegaVolt87

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I think what we need more than anything is a functioning block of troops. Something durable to shield our characters and hold objectives, preferably with good enough range to contest numarines and cheap enough to have some board presence. Most competitive lists took plaguebearers to fill this role, while just souping in Thousand Sons characters for the smites and so on. I'm not sure if CSM can fill this void. Fingers crossed that we get some appropriate strats or buffs for our rubrics in Ritual of the Damned so they can fill this invaluable niche for us.

 

We do for undivided, rhino wall with 5 man rotor + combi champ MSU's and cultist screens. 


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#21
dbecer01

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Rhinos, really? What are rotors?

#22
Sawtooth

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Are Venomcrawlers or regular Chaos Marines of any interest to us? I have Shadowspear and am trying to think of what to do with them. I figure I can use Obliterators and turn the marines and Master of Possession into Rubrics and a Sorcerer but I've never touched the Venomcrawler in any kind of allied detachment.
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#23
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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Are Venomcrawlers or regular Chaos Marines of any interest to us? I have Shadowspear and am trying to think of what to do with them. I figure I can use Obliterators and turn the marines and Master of Possession into Rubrics and a Sorcerer but I've never touched the Venomcrawler in any kind of allied detachment.

Tzeentch Venomcrawlers could benefit quite a bit if you're going to be running Mutaliths or any buffs that only need "TZEENTCH DAEMON" as a target, such as the rerolls of 1 from our Daemon Princes, Flickering Flames, Boon of Change, etc. They're reasonably solid, and if you're summoning in some Heralds, that will help even more. You could, for example, but them and the MoP as Black Legion and paint them as Sons of the Cyclops. Drop in some Terminator Sorcerers, call it a Bringers of Despair detachment, and suddenly you can use Chosen Enforcers to stop your big units of Rubrics or Tzaangors from running for only 1CP. Many other tricks are possible, depending on what Legion you decide to use.


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