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1350 for a holidays tournament


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#26
Berzul

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Are they? I was sure that the combi weapon on the ravenwing sergeant was allowed in the codex. I don't have my book at hand to check, though.

 

 

EDIT (After checking in google): You know, I think that's right... I do think that the combi weapons on sergeants are index options! ... God damn it, I don't want to have to re-fit my biker sergeant!! D:


Edited by Berzul, 24 January 2020 - 09:06 PM.

"Fiat lux!"
- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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#27
Berzul

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Had a test game yesterday. All in all, the army behaved well enough, but as I try to fit into the constrains of the tournament, I am forced to switch things a bit.

Applying the restrictions, what I got out of the match yesterday, and my range of wysiwyg and painted models, I'm going with this list, I think

Librarian in TDA (Aversion, Righteous Repugnance, Master of Maneuver)
Master in Jump Pack, with Thunder Hammer and Storm Bolter
Librarian in Jump Pack, with Heavenfall Blade and Plasma Pistol

5-man Tactical Squad
5-man Tactical Squad
5-man Tactical Squad

5-man Deathwing Terminator Squad, with a Chainfist
5-man Company Veterans Squad, with 3x Chainswords and Combi Plasmas, a Plasma Gun, and a Plasma Cannon
> Company Ancient, with a Chainsword
>> In a Drop Pod, with a Storm Bolter

5-man Ravenwing Bike Squad, with Chainswords and 2 Meltaguns
> Ravenwing Attack Bike, with a Multi Melta
Ravenwing Darkshroud, with a Heavy Bolter

Whirlwind, with Castellan Missile Launcher

1350 pts exactly, 9 cp
Battalion and Vanguard Detachments


Tacticals and the whirlwind start (and remain) on my objectives, while the bikes, shroud and the jump characters move forward. The veterans drop for an alpha strike, using the ancient to fire on the landing, and then again when they get wiped out (which they will). Once the bikes are in a good position turn 2 or 3, I drop in the DW. Should I have to split them appart from the bikes, or reposition them post landing, the Librarian can boost their charges and advances.

The list has reach (with the Whirlwind, the plasma bomb, the bikes, and the terminators for DWA), but lacks anti armor (just my plasma bomb and the 3 melta shots from the bikes), but it does have some staying power. Bikes can be particularly hard to shift, with SotR and the shroud. I'm hoping their limited shots are compensated by their accuracy, due to the boosting characters.
"Fiat lux!"
- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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#28
Berzul

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I might have a chance to try this army against T'au, today.

Let's see how it goes.
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"Fiat lux!"
- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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#29
Watcher

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If you could get a storm shield or two to throw on your company vets, it would help keep them alive. Common strategy employed by Space Wolves and Deathwatch.


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"It's funny. That time when you saved old Adrian from those fanatics I thought I heard him offer you your heart's desire. He would have sent you home if you asked. Instead you asked for a meat pie."
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#30
Berzul

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In a future list, I'd try and add them, yes. But, for now, it has to be wysiwyg, and I do not have the models for it.


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"Fiat lux!"
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#31
Berzul

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In fact, if I could, I'd take both storm shields on the plasma veterans, and Knights instead of regular Terminators. With an Ancient to boost them.


"Fiat lux!"
- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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#32
Berzul

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Ok, I was defeated in my match today. Not sure what went wrong, though.

Deployment favoured me at first, since he dug himself deep into a place from where he had little to no LoS. But then I failed pretty much every single attack I made, while he passed every save or saviour protocol with ease. One after the other.

In the end, I got crushed. His army almost intact, while mine down to my damaged bikes, and my remaining terminators, with no chance of matching him in scored points.

I'm tempted to consider this a loss due to bad rolls, but my positioning and overall use of the list was pretty sub par, too.
"Fiat lux!"
- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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#33
Watcher

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Ok, I was defeated in my match today. Not sure what went wrong, though.

Deployment favoured me at first, since he dug himself deep into a place from where he had little to no LoS. But then I failed pretty much every single attack I made, while he passed every save or saviour protocol with ease. One after the other.

In the end, I got crushed. His army almost intact, while mine down to my damaged bikes, and my remaining terminators, with no chance of matching him in scored points.

I'm tempted to consider this a loss due to bad rolls, but my positioning and overall use of the list was pretty sub par, too.

Can never blame the dice in a game of RNG and feel wholly ok with it, but bad games do happen. Next time will be better, keep at it Brother!


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"It's funny. That time when you saved old Adrian from those fanatics I thought I heard him offer you your heart's desire. He would have sent you home if you asked. Instead you asked for a meat pie."
..."It was a big pie." - Torin the Wayfarer
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#34
Berzul

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Ok, I was defeated in my match today. Not sure what went wrong, though.

Deployment favoured me at first, since he dug himself deep into a place from where he had little to no LoS. But then I failed pretty much every single attack I made, while he passed every save or saviour protocol with ease. One after the other.

In the end, I got crushed. His army almost intact, while mine down to my damaged bikes, and my remaining terminators, with no chance of matching him in scored points.

I'm tempted to consider this a loss due to bad rolls, but my positioning and overall use of the list was pretty sub par, too.

Can never blame the dice in a game of RNG and feel wholly ok with it, but bad games do happen. Next time will be better, keep at it Brother!

 

Thanks.

 

I'll get my chance to play the same opponent again tomorrow. I'm going with almost the same list, just tweaking a few items in a unit or two.

Let's see how it goes this time.

I feel like I failed at my previous battle by:

1) Spreading my tacticals too much against a gunline army. Against a melee army, spreading my objective grabbers can be a good thing, but against someone that can kill you no matter where you stand, the lack of a cohesive troop formation to push forward hurt me.

 

2) Using my bikes waaaaaay too safe. I did this to the point that my opponent and I actually FORGOT the Darkshroud was in a ruin for two turns, and I was moving around without using it. Just, ducking out of LoS for way too long with everything.

 

This time I will try to venture my bikes more directly into position, and I will try and focus my efforts better with the units I have at hand.


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"Fiat lux!"
- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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#35
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Ok, I was defeated in my match today. Not sure what went wrong, though.

Deployment favoured me at first, since he dug himself deep into a place from where he had little to no LoS. But then I failed pretty much every single attack I made, while he passed every save or saviour protocol with ease. One after the other.

In the end, I got crushed. His army almost intact, while mine down to my damaged bikes, and my remaining terminators, with no chance of matching him in scored points.

I'm tempted to consider this a loss due to bad rolls, but my positioning and overall use of the list was pretty sub par, too.

Can never blame the dice in a game of RNG and feel wholly ok with it, but bad games do happen. Next time will be better, keep at it Brother!

 

Thanks.

 

I'll get my chance to play the same opponent again tomorrow. I'm going with almost the same list, just tweaking a few items in a unit or two.

Let's see how it goes this time.

I feel like I failed at my previous battle by:

1) Spreading my tacticals too much against a gunline army. Against a melee army, spreading my objective grabbers can be a good thing, but against someone that can kill you no matter where you stand, the lack of a cohesive troop formation to push forward hurt me.

 

2) Using my bikes waaaaaay too safe. I did this to the point that my opponent and I actually FORGOT the Darkshroud was in a ruin for two turns, and I was moving around without using it. Just, ducking out of LoS for way too long with everything.

 

This time I will try to venture my bikes more directly into position, and I will try and focus my efforts better with the units I have at hand.

 

If you have LoS terrain, try prioritizing objective placement within range of the terrain (if its Chapter Approved mission, Maelstrom, etc.) so when you deploy your tactical marines they can be out of LoS and still hold objectives. Playing safe with bikes most times can be detrimental. You have a lot of strats to keep them alive and they can be valuable in tying down enemy units (especially gunlines or vehicles), get'em in there! msn-wink.gif  Can't wait for the update!


Edited by Watcher, 29 January 2020 - 01:50 AM.

"It's funny. That time when you saved old Adrian from those fanatics I thought I heard him offer you your heart's desire. He would have sent you home if you asked. Instead you asked for a meat pie."
..."It was a big pie." - Torin the Wayfarer
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#36
Berzul

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Well, second match just took place.

It was a tie in round 5, by 11-11 points.

And, it was the most fun I've had in a long, long time. Man, this battle had EVERYTHING. Units surviving against all odds, characters doing thrilling heroics, and strategies being played out turn by turn with both moments of flawless execution and moments of surprising problems.

We had both warlords dueling alone, terminators fighting big beasts, infantry dying in large numbers, positioning down to fraction of inches for each objective...

I tell you, what a freaking game. Simply incredible.

What I take from it is that, all in all, the list works. Its not strong, but it works. I think I'm starting to learn more on how to play it, too.

This time my bikes were more agressive, my army stayed closer together, and I picked my targets better.

Edited by Berzul, 30 January 2020 - 11:43 PM.

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"Fiat lux!"
- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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#37
Watcher

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Glad to hear, Brother!!!! Are there any areas you're looking to refine or optimize in your list that did well or perhaps under-performed? Or things you would like include in future lists?


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"It's funny. That time when you saved old Adrian from those fanatics I thought I heard him offer you your heart's desire. He would have sent you home if you asked. Instead you asked for a meat pie."
..."It was a big pie." - Torin the Wayfarer
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#38
Berzul

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Well, I have just been made aware that my main stratagem for the plasma drop pod is not valid.

Now that my plasma veterans have no rerolls, I am questioning a lot about my list.

Should I keep them still, and just risk the overcharge? Fire at S7 D2 with WotDA? Or should I take em out and spend those points elsewhere?

For the cost of the veterans, ancient, and drop pod, I could bring an extra tactical squad, and two Twin Assault Cannon Razorbacks... Might give me a bit more durability on holding objectives, mobility for some squads, and more damage output vs light infantry.
"Fiat lux!"
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#39
Berzul

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Here is what I have in mind:

 

Without rerolls on the plasma bomb, the efficiency drops too much. I must either double down on the squad, increasing the cost by adding a Company Master, or I must take it out entirely and bring in something else for the points.

 

To go for the first one, I could take out my Company Master and my Lieutenant in jump packs. That frees 217 points, which is enough to bring Azrael and a regular Lieutenant with barebone options. This also leaves me with 7 points to upgrade something or other. Maybe a storm bolter for the Librarian and a watcher in the dark for the terminators.

 

The good, is that this makes the company veterans a lot more survivable, and deadly.

The bad, is that this makes the whole plasma bomb cost 463 points. That is 34.29% of my list for a turn one squad to fire 10 shots of S8 D3 plasma. Deadly, but I don't know if deadly enough.

The ugly, is that against lists such as T'au, the unit is just not useful. Drones will soak up those shots in their entirety, so that is 463 points wasted in killing some drones, before getting blasted off the table by a riptide, exposing my characters.

 

To go for the second one, I also need to consider that it removes 2 Elite units, making me lose my vanguard detachment. Now I need a new detachment to make up for it.

 

I could go with a Ravenwing Apothecary to support the bikes, and a Venerable Dreadnought for more anti-vehicle damage output. But, that is still not enough damage for my buck, I feel, compared to the Plasma Veterans, and the Dread can be killed quite easily too.

 

What I am thinking is, going full on heavy support. Turn my Whirlwind into a part of a Spearhead, led by the Librarian. I could add a 5-man Devastator Squad with an Armorium Cherub, a Heavy Bolter for Helfire Shells, and a Missile Launcher for Flakk Missiles (which would be a cheap way of adding some Mortal Wounds for the same CP cost as the plasma bomb), and I could add a Predator I have, with an Autocannon (which deals good AP-2 damage on turn one with Devastator Doctrines) and two Heavy Bolters (which gives me more infantry clearing firepower early on). This also frees enough points so as to add a few odds and ends on the rest of the units.

 

This new configuration would need to deploy second, in order to work, as it depends on units standing still for better effect. If I deploy first, my opponent can easily counter deploy, and force me to move, reducing my effectiveness greatly. So, I need to play a lot more defensively.

 

In any case, the list would look something like this:

 

1350 Points - 8 CP (down from 9, by taking for Hero of the Chapter)

Battalion Detachment + Spearhead Detachment

 

HQs

Company Master in Jump Pack, with Thunder Hammer and Storm Bolter (Warlord, Brilliant Strategist)

Lieutenant in Jump Pack, with Heavenfall Blade and Plasma Pistol

Librarian in Terminator Armor, with Force Stave (Hero of the Chapter, Master of Maneuver)

 

TROOPS

5-man Tactical Squad

5-man Tactical Squad

5-man Tactical Squad

 

ELITES

5-man Deathwing Terminator Squad, with a Watcher in the Dark

 

FAST ATTACK

5-man Ravenwing Bike Squad, with Combi Melta, and two Meltaguns

>> Added Ravenwing Attack Bike, with Multi Melta

Ravenwing Darkshroud, with Heavy Bolter

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

5-man Devastator Squad, with a Heavy Bolter and a Missile Launcher, and an Armorium Cherub

Predator, with Predator Autocannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Whirlwind, with Castellan Missiles


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"Fiat lux!"
- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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#40
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I would recommend dropping the plasma on your lieutenant as plasma on characters is usually never worth it. He'll sit back and probably never use it, and if he does he runs the risk of being killed by his own tiny suncannon. Try to scrounge some points to throw a storm shield on your Master, it will keep him alive and doing damage longer.

 

Otherwise, the list seems alright. Deathwing Terminators aren't amazing by any standards, but in a 1350, they will be some dang hard to move objective holders.

Id say playtest it a bit if you have the time. You're critically thinking about your list which is really good! The plasma bomb you have is definitely not viable for the amount of points you're putting in versus your output. Looking forward to the next update, Brother!


"It's funny. That time when you saved old Adrian from those fanatics I thought I heard him offer you your heart's desire. He would have sent you home if you asked. Instead you asked for a meat pie."
..."It was a big pie." - Torin the Wayfarer
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#41
SnakeChisler

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When points are so tight I'd look at alternatives to thunder Hammer master, Sammael on Corvex is the same points and hits at S8 on the charge he'd work well with the Deathwing as Corvex is a bike

The jump pack tax on characters is gross, I understand why coz of blood Angels and generic smash captains but still.

I'm figuring you don't have the model, if I was going to build a Sammael on Corvex and Sableclaw think I'd customise the custodes jetties for both combined with the DA. Upgrade sprue

#42
Berzul

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Yeah, its just as you say. I simply do not have the model for it.
"Fiat lux!"
- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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#43
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You could always run Sammuel on Sableclaw if you've got a land speeder lying about? How are you feeling about your list so far?


"It's funny. That time when you saved old Adrian from those fanatics I thought I heard him offer you your heart's desire. He would have sent you home if you asked. Instead you asked for a meat pie."
..."It was a big pie." - Torin the Wayfarer
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#44
Berzul

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I have a talonmaster, and another speeder typhoon with I could proxy as sammael.

 

About the list itself, I have not had a chance to try the latest version, sadly. As soon as I can, I will post a report.


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"Fiat lux!"
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#45
Berzul

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Ok so, the tournament is tomorrow, but my wife decided to accept an invite from some friends of us to their house at the beach for the weekend.

 

Not a bad idea to have a small holiday mid february, for us. But, no chance to play in the tournament.

 

Kinda makes all of this theory and practice feel a bit pointless, but in truth, I did get to test some lists and polish my skills a lot. So, no regrets? I guess.


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"Fiat lux!"
- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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#46
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Ok so, the tournament is tomorrow, but my wife decided to accept an invite from some friends of us to their house at the beach for the weekend.

 

Not a bad idea to have a small holiday mid february, for us. But, no chance to play in the tournament.

 

Kinda makes all of this theory and practice feel a bit pointless, but in truth, I did get to test some lists and polish my skills a lot. So, no regrets? I guess.

No harm in a break and there is always more time to be made. You can always try to arrange a tournament within your playgroup too!

 

On the flipside, you learned a lot of ideal components of your army and how to utilize what you have currently. I'd call that a win, Brother! biggrin.png


"It's funny. That time when you saved old Adrian from those fanatics I thought I heard him offer you your heart's desire. He would have sent you home if you asked. Instead you asked for a meat pie."
..."It was a big pie." - Torin the Wayfarer
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#47
Berzul

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Thanks, Watcher. For your comments and support. Yes, it has been a win for me.

I have gotten some good practice and cool ideas on how to better use my army, and I think it has made me a better player.

Lets see ig next tournament I can put this into practice.
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"Fiat lux!"
- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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#48
Berzul

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I am now thinking, in applying what I've learned with this list, to try something with more offensive power on turn one.

Still 1350, with 8CP post Hero of the Chapter
Still Battalion, but now with a Spearhead

HQ
Master in Jump Pack, with Thunder Hammer and Storm Bolter (Warlord, with Fury of the Lion)
Lieutenant in Jump Pack, with Heavenfall Blade and Plasma Pistol
Librarian in Terminator Armor, with Force Stave (Master of Maneuver)

TROOPS
5-man Tactical Squad, with a Combi Plasma and Chainsword, and a Plasma Gun
5-man Tactical Squad, with a Combi Plasma and Chainsword, and a Plasma Gun
5-man Tactical Squad, with a Combi Plasma and Chainsword, and a Plasma Gun

ELITES
5-man Deathwing Terminator Squad, with an Assault Cannon, a Chainfist, and a Watcher in the Dark
Dreadnought, with Twin Lascannon and Missile Launcher

FAST ATTACK
5-man Ravenwing Bike Squad, with a Combi Melta and two Meltaguns
>> Added Attack Bike, with Multi Melta

HEAVY SUPPORT
5-man Devastator Squad, with a Heavy Bolter and a Missile Launcher
Whirlwind with Castellan Missiles
Whirlwind with Castellan Missiles
"Fiat lux!"
- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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#49
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Looks like fun! Those Castellan Whirlwinds will be a big help. they can sit on back end objectives and provide a mean amount of coverfire for your forces (I think there is a new stratagem that might halve movement and advances of squads hit by the artillery?). Its pretty decent for still keeping to 1350pts. Any alternatives to the Ravanewing Bikers or what is your intended tactic? Run up and tie up units or fast little AA unit?


"It's funny. That time when you saved old Adrian from those fanatics I thought I heard him offer you your heart's desire. He would have sent you home if you asked. Instead you asked for a meat pie."
..."It was a big pie." - Torin the Wayfarer
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#50
Berzul

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Thanks, Watcher! (I seriously appreciate your input thus far, thanks)

 

So, my logic is to:

 

1) Use the whirlwinds as backfield objective holders, yes. Hopefully placing them outside of LoS, and far from each other, so that if my enemy comes hunting for them they will have a tough time getting both. These vehicles can easily clear objectives from harder to reach places, thus letting me play my bikes and terminators with better efficiency, by aiming them at what is the real threat on the board.

 

2) In that sense, bikes I plan on using the same way I have so far. Which is to put them forward and out of sight as much as possible, with both jump pack characters along, and use them to pressure one side of the opponent. With rerolls to hit and wound, and the extra range, those meltaguns have managed to net me some good results so far. The bolters they pack are always great to cut down on screens and pesky light infantry units. This makes the squad into the "tip of the spear" for my army, betting big on their jinking, numbers, and character support. Once they manage to position on turn 2 or 3, then...

 

3) ... in comes the Deathwing, with Deathwing Assault for even more screen cleaning. I have played this guys along with the Librarian as a secondary hero (with master of maneuver) to amazing effect, so far. I plan on trying Fury of the Lion on my jump pack master for a few games, as I am getting the hang of timing my charges in so that these guys can be within aura distance. Some S10 punches can be quite awesome.

 

So, all in all, the bikes are not really meant to tie anything at first. At most they have their chainswords to mow down stragglers over objectives. Their main purpose is as an Anti Armor lance, pushing its way through under the artillery support from the castellan launchers, and their own twin boltguns.


"Fiat lux!"
- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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