brother carc Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 So like many others I love the new valorous heart and it looks like they’ve really got the staying power to give other armies a run for their money, but... I feel it lacks a certain oomph, something in the middle of the field to make the opponent consider his options. I haven’t had a chance to play with Mortifiers yet so I’ve been thinking Bloody Rose. But I need help fine tuning my ideas. My targets are: 1 - keep it cheap 2 - useful against a range of targets 3 - fit it inside a detachment So currently my thoughts are running along the lines of Canoness with brazier of Fire, bolt pistol and chainsword (If you’re opponent brings 4+ Psykers, switch the brazier for a relic, otherwise take the Teeth of Terra chainsword and consider heroine in the making for optimized killiness) 5-10 Celestians with triple meltaguns (The full rerolls granted by the Canoness means these girls should be able to advance into position and still reliably tag a target) Imagifier (Not sure if this girl is worth it, but her +1 S starts to put celestians into a range where they’re actually effective. Also benefits the...) Zephyrim/Repentia I love the idea of both of these units but do they ever make it into combat? If so, any thoughts on how to make it happen? Would appreciate any feedback. Getting back into the game after a long time out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) Single Bloddy Rose formation for giving out pain.... I'd go with something like this: Repentia (6) + priest + Imagifier + Repentia Mistress + canoness *rhino...... T1 Advance rhino up, T2 out and charge.... Repentia are now 4 attacks S4 (8) re-rolling misses & 1's to wound at -4AP D2 Or swap out the priest & canoness for a missionary & extra repentia.... EDIT: to expand the repentia line out... Attacks are 2 + 1 BR + 1 priest Strenght is S3 + 1 from the Imagiafier (tale of the warrior) then doubled to S8 re-rolling misses is from Zelot rule (-1 to hit is applied after re-rolls remember:( ) re-roll 1's to wound is from the Canoness AP -4 is AP -3 from their swords and an extra 1 from the BR rule Damage 2 is native to their swords... Edited December 13, 2019 by Slasher956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) Pretty reliable ways to get them into combat: Zephyrim can deep strike and have a wargear option that creates an area bubble allowing units to reroll their charge distance. With MD banked away for this purpose, you can always ensure they make their charge. Repentia on the other hand will prefer to ride in a transport to keep them protected and ensure they can move fast enough for their purpose. Once out they can make use of the Stratagem to charge even after advancing I think. In addition, the Superior gives reroll of 1s to wound as well as rerolling charge and advance rolls. MD can also help ensure a guaranteed result here. Edited December 13, 2019 by Lemondish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Hmm, I forgot Priests give an extra attack these days. Certainly a worthy addition to Repentia. Imagifier is good as well, especially if you're bringing several melee units. +1S makes Repentia hit at S8, which wounds T4 at 2+ - always nice. Bloody Rose is certainly the best melee Order. You (op) didn't make quite clear what you'd be pairing them up with. With Valorous Heart, or a different Codex? If VH, then you'd be better off just putting the shooty models there, since BR doesn't do much for them. I mean sure, Celestians have an extra attack compared to BSS, but that's about it for their combat prowess. It's a shame GW still didn't give them melee options. But at least Zephyrim, while a bit expensive, don't need a transport in their stead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother carc Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) Sorry if I wasn’t entirely clear but yes, the majority of the shooting prowess of this list will be invested in the “valorous heart” part of the army The reason I’ve included bloody rose celestians is that celestians can only protect their own order and if the enemy realize there is a Killy Canoness/imagifier then you can bet they’ll be the first units sniped Edited December 13, 2019 by brother carc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Figured it might be for that, but I'm not sure it's worth it necessarily. If I end up making my own Bloody Rose detachment, it's gonna be at least two units of Repentia, one unit of Zephyrim, an Imagifier and a Missionary. All of that except for the Zephyrim stuck into two Rhinos for transport most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Figured it might be for that, but I'm not sure it's worth it necessarily. If I end up making my own Bloody Rose detachment, it's gonna be at least two units of Repentia, one unit of Zephyrim, an Imagifier and a Missionary. All of that except for the Zephyrim stuck into two Rhinos for transport most likely. No Repentia Superior? Her reroll auras seem super important for Repentia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Figured it might be for that, but I'm not sure it's worth it necessarily. If I end up making my own Bloody Rose detachment, it's gonna be at least two units of Repentia, one unit of Zephyrim, an Imagifier and a Missionary. All of that except for the Zephyrim stuck into two Rhinos for transport most likely. No Repentia Superior? Her reroll auras seem super important for Repentia. Oh, yeah, her too of course especially since there's more than one squad of Repentia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother carc Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 See this is the thing... Two units of Repentia and Canoness and Repentia superior and imagifier with transports and the Bloody Rose are no longer a small part of your army... they’re most of it. If you’re keeping everything bare bones, but as punchy as possible, what does that look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) If it's too cheap though, it'll lack the punch you were looking for. However, the units I outlined (Missionary, Repentia Superior, Imagifier, total 17 Repentia so that characters still fit into two Rhinos, and 5 Zephyrim) would only be 559 points, filling out a Vanguard detachment. You don't need the Canoness for anything really. Yeah it's more attacks and damage but in terms of buffs etc she's not really necessary, the Missionary ends up more useful and you only need the single HQ. If you don't like/want the Zephyrim, you can leave them out. Then it is 473 points and still fits into the two Rhinos (since two squads can be in a single vehicle). You can of course add the Canoness if you want, by leaving out a single Repentia to make room. And of course you can make it even smaller. 2x4 Repentia, Missionary (or Canoness if you really want) and Imagifier in a Rhino. That also fills out a Vanguard and fits into the single vehicle. No Repentia Superior because you'd have to drop down to a Patrol detachment (no +CP) since the Superior doesn't fill a slot and no space left in the Rhino to take both her and Imagifier. This setup would be 254 points. Edited December 13, 2019 by tvih Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) See this is the thing... Two units of Repentia and Canoness and Repentia superior and imagifier with transports and the Bloody Rose are no longer a small part of your army... they’re most of it. If you’re keeping everything bare bones, but as punchy as possible, what does that look like? Only if you're playing 1000 points. If you're playing a 2000 point game it's almost exactly a third of your list if you max out every unit. Hardly what one would consider as "most" of your army. Edited December 13, 2019 by Lemondish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repented Repentia Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 You could give the canoness blazing ire the BR warlord trait giving her another attack & charge if she advanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nichodemus10 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 It seems like the cheap way to do it would be Missionary as HQ Two squads of 4 repentia Mistress Hospitalier (don't put her with the squad, but she heals the rest of your army just fine) And a rhino for the 10 non medic models. Don't have my book with me but that seems like a vanguard detachment at under 300 points which will give you one group of punchy death to protect your lines. And a bonus medic to support the rest of your army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother carc Posted December 14, 2019 Author Share Posted December 14, 2019 Thanks for the suggestions, I think I need to give the missionary and Repentia superior a try. Think I was just too attached to the idea of a Canoness with beneficence and righteous rage carving through entire units of primaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Thanks for the suggestions, I think I need to give the missionary and Repentia superior a try. Think I was just too attached to the idea of a Canoness with beneficence and righteous rage carving through entire units of primaris Don't be discouraged - that's still just a 45 point unit after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother carc Posted December 15, 2019 Author Share Posted December 15, 2019 I actually tried the BR Canoness out yesterday and she worked out really well. Butchered easily double her points in marines I would also really recommend the Celestian/Canoness combo. They stop her from getting sniped and they actually get pretty dangerous rerolling all attacks - three Melta guns on overwatch - 30 attacks hitting on 3’s with -1 AP can actually put a hurt on units, especially if you use the +1 to wound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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