What makes a model cool?

[Lucerne]

 

 

Good anatomy, unique designs for characters (not yet another completely generic slightly reposed Intercessor), the right balance of cleanness and details (Shrike fails both the unique design and details aspect) and above all else, visual storytelling.

 

There's a middle ground between well-executed but overly safe (Howling Banshees, which are fine but a 1:1) and art-student vomit (half the Primaris range) and the Sisters, GSC, and sculpts like Abaddon fall into that safe zone.

 

Intercessors are a godawful design as poster children for/ generic marines but frankly are the least awful of the Primaris range even if their design is an overly contrarian grab bag of elements that don't quite fit together. But at least they're not standard Reivers.

Wait..... So you're saying that Shrike, who has the most unique design of all of the new Primaris'd characters, fails the "unique design and details" aspect? Seriously, out of all of the new characters, barring Tor Garadon, Shrike is the most unique out of all of them.

 

Sir, I think you're just hating on Primaris to hate on Primaris right now with that post.....

 

 

Personly i prefer the old Shrike too.

I dont like the masked face of the new Shrike, its to much Winter Soldier / pop culture reference for for me that doesnt realy fit.

Thats something other sculptors / artists from GW had done better.

 

I mean, it's not even a question of liking or disliking it, the new head just doesn't work for an established character where the helmet is a big part of the design, or for the "visual storytelling" of a Jump pack captain in a dynamic pose which the Shrike In Name Only...isn't.

 

Even putting aside that it's allegedly Shrike, the new sculpt is just cluttered and looks visually confused even for a phoned-in Primaris sculpt. The gun breaks up the outline in a bad way. The pouches don't belong. The backpack can't be salvaged. Balancing on that narrow- looking fence in a passive pose like that is one of the worst possible ways to handle a fancy base. The ankle details look like a failed attempt at raptor-style feet. If you told me at gunpoint to make a stealthy Reiver HQ chapter master, there are very few things from the Shrike model that I'd use to do it.

 

For all the unsalvageable problems inherent to the Reiver armour, this at least has a better sense of composition and restrained design and frankly anyone that wants a reiver-style shrike should probably use this with a Dark Fury jump pack instead of the official model as a base- it's not like you lose anything unique from the "official" set worth saving.

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99070101045_SMPrimarisLieutenantinPhobosArmour01.jpg

Edited January 5, 2020 by Lucerne

[Evil Eye]

Intercessors are a godawful design as poster children for/ generic marines but frankly are the least awful of the Primaris range even if their design is an overly contrarian grab bag of elements that don't quite fit together. But at least they're not standard Reivers.

Buh? The basic Intercessor is a really solid design. Good proportions, a nice balance of detail vs cleanliness, some interesting design elements, and are unmistakable as Space Marines whilst still being recognizably new. I don't like all the Primaris designs (mainly Gravis pattern) but the Intercessors are literally the absolute worst example you could have used for that argument.

[Lucerne]

 

Intercessors are a godawful design as poster children for/ generic marines but frankly are the least awful of the Primaris range even if their design is an overly contrarian grab bag of elements that don't quite fit together. But at least they're not standard Reivers.

Buh? The basic Intercessor is a really solid design. Good proportions, a nice balance of detail vs cleanliness, some interesting design elements, and are unmistakable as Space Marines whilst still being recognizably new. I don't like all the Primaris designs (mainly Gravis pattern) but the Intercessors are literally the absolute worst example you could have used for that argument.

 

As their own thing they're reasonably solid, sure, but the barrel chest is taken a bit too far, they lack variety of detail (wrist computers are cool but honestly GW failed to put all that open space on the shins and arms to good use) I find the forced Mk III elements in the form of the frontal legplate and whatever that boot design is supposd to be extremely offputting, and especially with the bare heads the proportions can look a bit wonky for more dynamically posed HQs. They're decent on their own, and ironically enough dark imperium's poses for snap-fits mostly dodge the problems that show up with some other Intercessors.

 

However if considered through the lens of the new "standard" Space Marine, they fare much worse than when taken as their own variant- as said, they're the least awful Primaris. (if vanguards didn't have reiver shins they'd win out)

 

And yes, I'm not even talking about some of the other Primaris designs since that really would be low hanging fruit.

 

On the subject of best sculpts though, I'd have to hand that to the FW Gal Vorbak and blade slaves, and the old vraks renegade militia sculpts, as well as the plastics I previously mentioned.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Lucerne

[Panzer]

 

 

 

Good anatomy, unique designs for characters (not yet another completely generic slightly reposed Intercessor), the right balance of cleanness and details (Shrike fails both the unique design and details aspect) and above all else, visual storytelling.

 

There's a middle ground between well-executed but overly safe (Howling Banshees, which are fine but a 1:1) and art-student vomit (half the Primaris range) and the Sisters, GSC, and sculpts like Abaddon fall into that safe zone.

 

Intercessors are a godawful design as poster children for/ generic marines but frankly are the least awful of the Primaris range even if their design is an overly contrarian grab bag of elements that don't quite fit together. But at least they're not standard Reivers.

Wait..... So you're saying that Shrike, who has the most unique design of all of the new Primaris'd characters, fails the "unique design and details" aspect? Seriously, out of all of the new characters, barring Tor Garadon, Shrike is the most unique out of all of them.

 

Sir, I think you're just hating on Primaris to hate on Primaris right now with that post.....

 

 

Personly i prefer the old Shrike too.

I dont like the masked face of the new Shrike, its to much Winter Soldier / pop culture reference for for me that doesnt realy fit.

Thats something other sculptors / artists from GW had done better.

 

I mean, it's not even a question of liking or disliking it, the new head just doesn't work for an established character where the helmet is a big part of the design, or for the "visual storytelling" of a Jump pack captain in a dynamic pose which the Shrike In Name Only...isn't.

 

Even putting aside that it's allegedly Shrike, the new sculpt is just cluttered and looks visually confused even for a phoned-in Primaris sculpt. The gun breaks up the outline in a bad way. The pouches don't belong. The backpack can't be salvaged. Balancing on that narrow- looking fence in a passive pose like that is one of the worst possible ways to handle a fancy base. The ankle details look like a failed attempt at raptor-style feet. If you told me at gunpoint to make a stealthy Reiver HQ chapter master, there are very few things from the Shrike model that I'd use to do it.

 

For all the unsalvageable problems inherent to the Reiver armour, this at least has a better sense of composition and restrained design and frankly anyone that wants a reiver-style shrike should probably use this with a Dark Fury jump pack instead of the official model as a base- it's not like you lose anything unique from the "official" set worth saving.

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99070101045_SMPrimarisLieutenantinPhobosArmour01.jpg

 

 

You seem to have a lot of strong opinions about Primaris so I won't even bother arguing, however I hope you realise that it's really just that. Your opinion. Literally nothing about what you said is an objective fact and a lot of the things you seem to hate with a passion are things many others like.

[The Yncarne]

Sorry if my question looks naive but I was wondering what makes a model cool? I mean, if you put painting aside, what do you like about a figurine?

 

Because there are a lot of mini that we love or we dislike but why?<snip>...

 

In general

• does the model capture the faction's visual aesthetic?
• does the model 'fit' with other models in its squad, or does it look like it could lead a squad?
• if a human, does the model's proportions look good from across the table?

 

Bonus points

• one 'hidden detail' that is only apparent on close inspection
• the model is multi-use (e.g. new Dark Angels model vs. Shadowsun)

[Panzer]

 

• the model is multi-use (e.g. new Dark Angels model vs. Shadowsun)

 

Funnily it's the exact opposite for me. Multi-use doesn't matter for me but I think the new Dark Angels model is plain and boring for a named character but the new Shadowsun is pretty cool. :P 

[Marshal Reinhard]

Honestly, dual use characters are a cool concept. But at the same time, I couldn't see myself getting something like Lazarus twice. The two different versions would be too similiar to each other (same pose, cloak, robe, etc) to be in the same army, unless simple conversion could make them further different (which again, would be a hazzle with the robes and cloak in the case of Lazarus).

 

Nice for the extra bits though?

[Panzer]

Dual use characters are a cool concept if they are actually designed like that instead of being designed as a regular Captain with multiple loadouds and then afterwards giving a specific loadout a special name.

Like in AoS the cavalry character of the Ossiarch Bonereapers. There's a regular variant and then there's a named character variant that looks completely different.

 

Regular variant:

 

Special character variant:

 

 

 

Let's be honest here, whether you like the new Dark Angels model or not it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't designed as named character and only got that treatment afterwards. If GW weren't doing PA it would simply be a nice looking Captain model for the Dark Angels and would be perfectly fine that way. However as named character I find him lacking compared to others. 

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

As far as primaris go, I love the intercessors and hellblasters, all the vanguard/Phobos stuff with the coveat that I fell the heads on the infiltrators seem a little... off to me (absolutely love the characters, eliminators, incursors and reivers), inceptors and about half the Rubiconed/brand new characters (For Garradon, Adrax Agatone, the IH guy, Mephiston and Lazarus), along with the store birthday captain and the lieutenants including the funky SW/BA/DA specific lieutenants. The tanks and dreadnoughts, if you could call the Invictus warsuit a dreadnought are pretty cool, and my only gripe there is the tanks probably have to many guns (and :cuss all mighty what's with all the heavy stubbers?). I personally think the rest is hot garbage, and kinda makes me want vomit in my mouth a little. So about half the range is fantastic, the other half garbage, in my opinion at least. And that's all anything that's written in this thread comes down to, personal opinion. Like I said earlier in the thread it's all purely subjective.

[Halandaar]

Callbacks to previous models or artwork, or in-universe easter eggs are things I find cool. The new Mephiston model is a good example, as is the half-buried Scorpion idol on the back of Drazhar's base.

[Héléade]

Hello everyone,

 

I see the topic is looking like Horus Heresy. There are proud loyalists and insidious traitors !

Thank you all for your answers. At first sight, there are some consensus : pose, face and details. All you said drive me to more questions: Do you prefer troops on the battlefield or ready to parade ? Because in my opinion when I am playing W40K, I think it's cool to simulate fight. I am a battle damage lover. However there are some AWESOME models which are not fighting :

[Indefragable]

 

Cool = confident without trying to be.

 

Some models have either too much going on or not enough. They say the skill of an artist is knowing when to stop. A cool model shows something without going overboard. Above all else it just works. You can have some pretty whacky ideas, even for 40k, but if it has confidence in itself*, then it can sometimes just work.

 

As the OP pointed out, that Primaris LT leaning forward, holding his helmet could be cool as a "job well done" pose. But adding the chainsword + Ork maybe went a bit too far. Likewise, the Chaplain that @Heleade posted is simple and cool. If you had blood and guts dripping from the power fist, it would distract from the "come at me bro" cool pose.

 

Just my thoughts.

Indefragable, do you think is it possible on a piece of a model? Like a head or a blade. If you think do you have an example of that?

 

 

 

Sorry for such a delayed response. I will think of some more examples if I can, but off the top of my head:

 

 

Even if you didn't know that is Dorn's chainsword, you know it's somebody badass/special's chainsword. The awesome factor is the incredible detail without going overboard, both in the weapon itself as well as the pose: there's so much potential energy built up in it that your imagination works itself into a tizzy wondering just what it's capable of rather than being shown what it can do. Like the horror movie monster that spends so much time off-screen...sometimes its more powerful that way. 

 

 

 

Likewise, even if you just look at tiny bits of Alpharius without seeing the whole, it just drips with character and flavor and "cool" from every pore. But then when you see the whole thing the whole is sooooo much better than the sum of its parts. 

 

And one more...

...and to give another HH Character Series entry, Sevatar is such an incredible model. Like Alpharius, if you look at just the individual building blocks of the model, like if you had a slow-pan close-up movie camera reveal of him, every single element of the model is intriguing and revealing in its own way, from the "omg what happened?" base, to the simplistic yet terrifying weapon, to the indescribable helm, to the stance, to the armor details.

 

 

 

If I have not said it outright already, I am a big fan of "potential" energy in models as opposed to "kinetic" poses. Kinetic is more action-oriented and showing something happening while potential is more statuesque and suggestive of what it's capable of rather than outright showing...

 

Hello everyone,

 

I see the topic is looking like Horus Heresy. There are proud loyalists and insidious traitors !

Thank you all for your answers. At first sight, there are some consensus : pose, face and details. All you said drive me to more questions: Do you prefer troops on the battlefield or ready to parade ? Because in my opinion when I am playing W40K, I think it's cool to simulate fight. I am a battle damage lover. However there are some AWESOME models which are not fighting :

 

 

...which leads to the perfect segway to the Krieg guys you just posted. Krieg are endlessly cool. Why? Because they're not trying. There's no attempt with them: 

 

"Do or do not, there is no try"

- Yoda

 

A combo of the outfits (gas masks, greatcoats) and and overall feel makes Krieg just so badass. For me, it's the fact that their outfits, poses, and details always suggest muck...that they are down in the getting grimy and dirty all the time. Yet, in contrast, their uniforms are always impeccably put together. Which suggests pride, professionalism, and a sense of esprit des corps. Like Jean-Luc Picard fixing his uniform every time he stands up. That sense of pride and keeping one's chin up no mater what situation you are in is just timelessly cool. 

 

...compare to the Catachans, who are cool in an entirely different, ridiculously over the top 40k way but on the opposite end of the spectrum...

Hidden Content

 

...who's lore is so freakin' amazing: 

 

 

....yet their models are just terrible, and not because they are old, full of details that are impossible to get right (lots of facial expressions, bare muscles), but because they lack soul, they lack emotion: 

 

 

....how could a sculptor rectify? Translate the idea of a "dudes with biceps big enough to arm wrestle Orkz" into action.

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Indefragable

[Indefragable]

p.s. this thread made me think of this one: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353139-rank-fws-primarch-models/?p=5234871 

[Overwhelming Odds]

Happy Thursday!

 

I love topics like this.  Here is my contribution.  I try to "tell a story" with some of my miniatures.  What story do you see here?  

 

 

Hope you like it.  The "pose" of the model demanded that I tell a story with this Terminator.

 

V/r,

 

Dan