Best Army for going second

[dbecer01]

So, you guys know how much I love taking these kinds of polls :P

 

So the question is, which armies do you think are best at -- or maybe even prefer -- to go second, and maybe allow more of a reactive game and why. Please give reasons.

 

So far, I'm thinking Death Guard, Nurgle Daemons and Necrons, because of the resiliency of their units, and also because they are slower (so maybe going first wouldn't benefit them as much).

[Vermintide]

Depends on the opponent more than the army you're playing, IMO.

 

Probably a better question to ask is "which army are you better off going second against?"

[bushman101]

typically? Medium ranged shooting lists, so your opponent can move up into Rapid Fire range.

Of course, that's dependent on: 1) not going against a longer ranged shooting list that will stay back or 2) a melee list that will get in your face turn 1.

[dbecer01]

typically? Medium ranged shooting lists, so your opponent can move up into Rapid Fire range.

Of course, that's dependent on: 1) not going against a longer ranged shooting list that will stay back or 2) a melee list that will get in your face turn 1.

Sounds like that's a no-go against space marines, with their 30"+ Range or long-range Tau.

[shandwen]

Necrons, nurgle, and my addition is greenskins. I feel the world can bring enough bodies to absorb a pounding a little better than other armies, but that really depends on unit selection.

[toaae]

This has a lot to do with terrain and mission parameters, but for the most part, you're looking for armies that can effectively hide most of their units and control what the enemy can shoot at. Genestealer Cult was notorious for this, as they'd have a load of units in reserves, and the rest hidden behind terrain as best they could manage. Now, GSC suffers from how hard a counter Space Marines are to them (and how prevalent SM are), but it's that sort of idea that holds true. Can you prevent the enemy from doing damage to your units? Then the army is good at going second. For instance, a recent Art of War podcast episode had an Eldar player that used non-LoS shooting, Wave Serpents, and speed to start out of range of a lot of enemy shooting. Really, there are two things that allow you to survive alpha strikes; either you're sturdy enough to take the hits, or you're not being shot.

If you can, then going second is probably better than going first, especially in mission formats like the ITC, where you can react to your opponent's turn for victory points like Kill More and Hold more.

[Closet Skeleton]

Going second is always better than going first unless you're alpha striking. Its pretty hard to win some objective based missions if your opponent is going to have the last say on where the pieces end up on the board.

 

Genestealer cults are an alpha strike army, so they generally need to go first since going second gives their opponent more ability to screen properly.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Closet Skeleton

[toaae]

Genestealer cults are an alpha strike army, so they generally need to go first since going second gives their opponent more ability to screen properly.

That's certainly one expectation, but top tournament players would often choose to go second, because they could deny their opponents a turn of shooting. With the stratagems and abilities available to GSC, they are able to effectively play around a lot of screens.

[Indefragable]

Anything that has the advantage when it comes to reaction.

 

7th Ed Drop Pods were notorious for this, where if your whole army was in pods or Deep Striking, you always wanted to go second since you would waster your opponent's entire first turn. Probably one of the reasons Drop Pods are no longer the thing they used to be (debatably for the better).

 

I think fast/slow or toughness is less a factor than overall maneuverability. Logically, you'd think most CQC armies want to go first to cross the field somewhat intact and get stuck-in as soon as possible, but with clever positioning, a CQC army can hide from shooting in T1 and then pounce on the opponent who had to embark out of their DZ to start getting objectives.

 

So I don't think there's a magic formula of a given faction, but rather specific units, missions, and matchups that really determine when you want to go first/second.

[NTaW]

In my experience with Necrons they very much appreciate going second.

 

May just be the curler in me gunning for "the hammer" though :lol:

[Closet Skeleton]

 

Genestealer cults are an alpha strike army, so they generally need to go first since going second gives their opponent more ability to screen properly.

That's certainly one expectation, but top tournament players would often choose to go second, because they could deny their opponents a turn of shooting. With the stratagems and abilities available to GSC, they are able to effectively play around a lot of screens.

 

 

GSC can go first and deny their opponent a turn of shooting since they can't alpha strike until turn 2 anyway.

 

[Dark Shepherd]

Depends on the opponent more than the army you're playing, IMO.

 

Probably a better question to ask is "which army are you better off going second against?"

I play Wolves and LOVE going second against assault armies/anything that wants to get up in your face. Turn one counter attack :)

[Panzer]

 

Depends on the opponent more than the army you're playing, IMO.

 

Probably a better question to ask is "which army are you better off going second against?"

I play Wolves and LOVE going second against assault armies/anything that wants to get up in your face. Turn one counter attack

 

 

Even against assault armies I prefer going first because my army is never just 100% melee so going first means I can soften some targets before our lines clash and it prevents the opponent from doing the same. ;) 

[Dark Shepherd]

I still enjoy bursting open rhinos and feasting on the goo within