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Feirros hit and run?

Iron hands Space marines Imperium Rules RAW RAI

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9 replies to this topic

#1
Sarchas

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Hi, wonder if the community can help me.
I was playing against iron hands the other day and have an issue with Feirros’s student of history warlord trait.

My opponent charged a group of my eldar with feirros, killed one in combat which left 3 models in the charged unit.
At the end of the fight phase my opponent hen stated he was “consolidating” with Feirros...... so he moved out of combat in the same turn he had charged in.

My opponent stated that you consolidate at the end of the fight phase and since feirros’s ability says he can go 6” in any direction my opponent took that as being able to leave combat.

Was this being played properly? It seems very powerful

#2
L30n1d4s

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I believe he was, based on how I understand the rules for this WL Trait.

#3
Sarchas

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This seems very powerful got a predominantly shooting army to have essentially hit and run.
I play iron hands also but I always played it that I’m order to “consolidate” you had to wipe out the unit you charged and not be in combat with anyone.
If you are still in combat at the end of the fight phase is it not a “pile in” move you make?
To me they are 2 separate and distinct actions

#4
L30n1d4s

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If you look at the Core Rules, Pile In occurs before attacks are made in the Fight phase and Consolidate occurs after it ends in the Fight phase, so yes they are two separate and distinct actions.

Under the normal rules, you can only Consolidate 3" and you must end closer to the enemy than you started, but with Feirros' WL Trait you overrule this and get to go 6" in any direction... so, based on all that, he does basically get the old Hit and Run USR, but since it only applies to one model in your whole army, I don't think it is too overpowered (Dark Angel's have a special Strat from their unique detachment in Vigilus Defiant that allows a whole unit of Ravenwing to fight and then immediately leave combat, with no chance for their opponent to attack, and they are not dominating the meta by any means).

#5
Panzer

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It only seems powerful against melee units. In any other case you'd be happy for him to leave combat on his own because it would let you shoot him without having to fall back yourself. Also since your unit is now free you can charge Feirros and hit first. So I'm not sure it was actually a smart move having him leave combat again.

 

Rules clarification:

Pile-in move happen when you activate a unit in the Fight phase to fight with.

Consolidation moves happen after the unit is done with all their attacks. It doesn't matter whether the opponents unit is destroyed or not but usually you have to move closer to the nearest enemy model unless you have a special exception like Feirros has.

 

They are similar but not the same.


Edited by sfPanzer, 29 December 2019 - 08:40 PM.

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#6
BluejayJunior

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The Warlord Trait does allow him to consolidate out of combat. But consolidation happens after his attacks, not at the end of the fight phase. 


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#7
Claws and Effect

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The Warlord Trait does allow him to consolidate out of combat. But consolidation happens after his attacks, not at the end of the fight phase.


If that's truly how it works it seems like they locked him into a trait that is almost never a good idea to actually use, because your opponent then gets to shoot at him in their turn since he's likely to be thr closest target at that point, and your shooting phase has already passed so it's not useful for opening the unit he was in combat with to being shot.

With that in mind, I would lean towards it following the same rules as ordinary consolidate in that the unit he was fighting must be destroyed, but it lifts the restriction on the direction he can move.

I had a scenario where that ability would have been useful for Shrike. He slaughtered a unit I didn't think he'd kill all of and got shot to death because he couldn't get away.

#8
Spinsanity

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If that's truly how it works it seems like they locked him into a trait that is almost never a good idea to actually use, because your opponent then gets to shoot at him in their turn since he's likely to be thr closest target at that point, and your shooting phase has already passed so it's not useful for opening the unit he was in combat with to being shot.

You know he doesn’t have to disengage on his turn and can wait until the opponent’s to do so, right? As a bonus, if he disengages before the opposing unit has fought, they might end up without any enemy unit within 1” thus rendering it unable to be chosen to fight with.

#9
Panzer

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With that in mind, I would lean towards it following the same rules as ordinary consolidate in that the unit he was fighting must be destroyed, but it lifts the restriction on the direction he can move.

 

 

Nothing says that the unit has to be destroyed before you can consolidate. That's not a thing.


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#10
BluejayJunior

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The Warlord Trait does allow him to consolidate out of combat. But consolidation happens after his attacks, not at the end of the fight phase.


If that's truly how it works it seems like they locked him into a trait that is almost never a good idea to actually use, because your opponent then gets to shoot at him in their turn since he's likely to be thr closest target at that point, and your shooting phase has already passed so it's not useful for opening the unit he was in combat with to being shot.

With that in mind, I would lean towards it following the same rules as ordinary consolidate in that the unit he was fighting must be destroyed, but it lifts the restriction on the direction he can move.

I had a scenario where that ability would have been useful for Shrike. He slaughtered a unit I didn't think he'd kill all of and got shot to death because he couldn't get away.

 

It's entirely situational on how useful it is. He could charge into an enemy melee unit, kill as many as he can, and then consolidate away from it, denying the strong melee unit any chance to attack him in that Fight phase. His consolidation could then put him behind an ally unit that is locked in combat so he is not the closest model for shooting. It can be quite effective in the right situation. 


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Iron hands, Space marines, Imperium, Rules, RAW, RAI

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