6 replies to this topic

[WarriorFish]

I'm focusing on getting my Daemons going for 2020 so I'm once again reviewing summoning as an early path to that. Things have changed so I want to focus on that change in the Master of Possession. He's a decent support HQ, essentially a sorcerer with a bubble of extra perils for enemy powers which is nice but with the Incursion power he can not only summon more effectively with four dice he can do so without taking any mortal wounds. As an added bonus, having a Venomcrawler nearby gives him a +1 to the roll so not a bad bodyguard to have if you're so inclined.

 

Unfortunately his other powers can't support non-Legion Daemon units, but this is self explanatory enough and once I get a few more CSM Daemon units going (the Maulershrimp in particular will enjoy an improved invulnerable save and a friend in the Venomcrawler).

 

What are people's experiences with summoning? Does the Master of Possession's Incursion power increase in viability help enough? I'm thinking of summoning a blob of Daemonettes to cause mischief, but should I be aiming bigger/bolder? You don't want to be holding too many reinforcement points back either so it may be compromise is best. Perhaps I should look at some Seekers or Fiends instead, get something a bit more than some stabbing?

 

I figured now was the time to make something of summoning, such as it is as well as the new units (I'll be kitbashing a Master of Executions up too) All info welcome, including non-Slaanesh bits for those who may be thinking the same as me but with a different allegiance

[Marshal Loss]

Incursion can be very useful - I run a Possessed blob in a rhino with a Master of Possession, who pops out and uses Incursion to provide daemonic support (usually a herald). Incursion allows you to summon at speed, so to speak. Not quite the scale you're looking for as it's only being used in my list to help the Possessed-train gain momentum, but I'm sure there's potential there (and he is a superb force multiplier for Possessed if you run any; they're lethal when played as Slaanesh).

 

I do agree that holding reinforcement points back is a dangerous game to play, and the principal advantage of summoning is flexibility, so you might need to play a few games to see how you can use Incursion to plug holes in/complement your list(s). In the few games in which I've done large-scale summoning I've often regretted not just running a dedicated detachment of daemons altogether, which gives massive bonuses and more CP.

 

What size lists do you run? 200-300 points in a large list won't cripple you and will allow you to remain flexible in deciding what to summon. 

 

Very interested to see what others have to say on this

Edited by Marshal Loss, 31 December 2019 - 03:11 PM.

[Prot]

I've used Incursion many, many times with my Black Legion. I prefer it to 'normal' summoning.

 

I think with even just a few hundred points in "reinforcement" points you get a flexibility that allows you to respond to the threat at hand.

 

I think it's a very good tool, the timing is great, you aren't stuck standing still, you get an extra dice, you can't suffer a mortal wound, etc, etc. There is no negative to me, except the typical negatives with a psychic power. 

[WarriorFish]

This is all good to hear I agree that if you want to take any significant degree of Daemons it's better to take a detachment that hasn't changed from before, but for a single unit or two it seems like the best way to do it. Given that stock summoning is lacklustre it feels more like saying "the only way" however...

 

Games are usually 1500 or 1750 with the odd one at 2000 but my CSM don't really have the models to do that properly yet. That said, topping up a few hundred points with Daemons would avoid that issue One of the things I'm mulling over is how to approach those points as the flexibility is part of the strength of it so it makes sense to try and make the most of it.

 

How can this be addressed best? If you had say 250 points would you have some pre-selected units to start with, perhaps chopping and changing depending on the roll and needs? For example you could drop in some Fiends, then next turn add some Daemonettes? To use what I have on my painting table, but also because theoretically the Fiends can lock something in combat for the Daemonettes to charge (or find a different target), their anti-psyker rule would stack neatly with the MoP's too.

 

Something like this would be taking the normal Reserves to the next level, as your opponent may well know something is coming and roughly where but not what (as neither do you until you start rolling ). Ideally you'd have anything at your disposal, but there's only so much room in the army case

 

edit: quick play reveals 20 Daemonettes with icon and banner plus 3 Fiends is 256pts. Convenient!

Edited by WarriorFish, 31 December 2019 - 04:06 PM.

[McElMcNinja]

Taking them in a detachment would allow you to use the stratagem to deepstrike them anywhere you could summon them plus outside summoning range. The disadvantage of having to spend CP and having to predetermin which unit might not outweigh the flexibility of unit choice.
A counter to that would be having a detachment with different Daemon units.

[MasterDeath]

With Daemons as my main army, I used summoning basically every game. Its a very reliable way to fix a hole in your line, counter or delay a threat on one side or just throw something on this odd VP somewhere. The MoP can do the same, but on the run, so easier to plan for. You mentioned the 4 dice. Those are nice, but there are alos more way to summon more reliable, safe or numerous. Wb lets reroll the dice, Gnarlmaw as well for Nurgle, Daemons let you use 4 dice and gives reroll 1 for 1d3 Mortals and most important the double-summon stratagem. So I would advice to at least have a small CP Battery detachement if you want to use summons.

 

My favorite summons

- Plaguebearer for VP holding duties, Horrors work as well

- All kind of Beasts and Fiends (2 PP models), if you have a really bad roll at least you can get something and they can keep tanks at bay (I had a funny game where a Vindicator and a Beast of Nurgle played "catch" for three rounds, until the overwatch hit)

- Heralds (support, more spells, maybe some killiness), remember you can summon unique models

- Soulgrinder. No joke. Most people see a wild Soulgrinder appearing 9" from their front (round 1 if using MoP) as a serious threat, it will probably die, but if you give it MoT and Warp Surge it has a 3++.

 

Note at the end: Not tournament tested as I dont play these

[WarriorFish]

It's nice how much has changed since last time I was musing on this, mostly due to one character! It's a great point on how few PL some of the beasts are, you could very easily drop in single model units to cause trouble chaos as the game goes along, for a modest amount of points too. With a single die thrown you don't need the MoP's power so you can go to town. To be extra cheeky the single Fiend probably wouldn't last too long but that frees the model up to be summoned again

 

I'm glad you mentioned the Soulgrinder as at least one is on the cards for my Daemons, not just as I like the model but also as what I'm thinking is some required heavy hitting (as I won't be using chariots). While the footprint may be quite large I can see that being a huge pain and demanding attention

 

One thing I do keep thinking about is summoning a KoS, but I'm pretty sure that's not a great idea and is a result of me really wanting to complete the model...