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[Tactica] Taus


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#51
Chaplain Elijah

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We play with a lot of buildings so hopefully the Aggressors will be able to move T1 without being shoot at.

If they are shoot at i doubt the whole unit will be wiped out so at the start of T2 the Apothecary heal/revive one of them.


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#52
G8Keeper

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We play with a lot of buildings so hopefully the Aggressors will be able to move T1 without being shoot at.

If they are shoot at i doubt the whole unit will be wiped out so at the start of T2 the Apothecary heal/revive one of them.

 

Fair one. Well, all that's left is to make sure you win :)

 

Will this be your last game with DA pre-psychic awakening 4?


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#53
Chaplain Elijah

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We play with a lot of buildings so hopefully the Aggressors will be able to move T1 without being shoot at.

If they are shoot at i doubt the whole unit will be wiped out so at the start of T2 the Apothecary heal/revive one of them.

 

Fair one. Well, all that's left is to make sure you win smile.png

 

Will this be your last game with DA pre-psychic awakening 4?

 

 

 

If i don't win here i never will sweat.gif

 

Yeah should be my last game, hopefully we'll get the PA4 rules preview next week...


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#54
Chaplain Elijah

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So i'm back from my club smile.png

 

There was some change with the players and we ended up doing random teams :

 

Deathwatch & Mechanicus

Versus

Taus & Dark Angels

 

So i didn't had my rematch against the blue xenos dry.png

We got to deploy First and get the First turn, scenario was Maelstrom. The table was very heavy on LoS blocking.

 

Deployment

Contemptor in the open, ready to move & fire.

Aggressors hug a Fortress of Redemption in the middle with the Apothecary behind.

Rest in Deep Strike.

 

T1

Aggressors reroll advance to do 10'', they stay close to the Fortress of Redemption to stay out of LoS & get Cover. Apothecary behind.

Contemptor move 9'' and shoot at a Dunecrawler, doing 3 Wounds.

///

They manage to get some shooting on the Aggressors, doing 1 Wound.

They focus the Contemptor, doing 4 Wounds.

 

T2

Aggressors reroll advance to do 7'' and get on the Fortress of Redemption. Apothecary heal the Wound lost. I deep strike everything around them.

Everyone is at (rapid firing) range of 18 Intercessors inside a building.

After ~90 bolters shoots + 20 (overcharged) plasma shoots i removed 2/3 of the Intercessors but lost 1 Vet + Azrael + Lieutenant from Get Hot.

Contemptor doing 6 Wounds on the Dunecrawler.

///

As expected they focus everything on me.

Not wounding the Contemptor (5++). Removing 4 Terminators & Apothecary with saturation. Killing a squad of 4 Vets with a charge (mostly Mortal Wounds).

 

T3

Nope we stopped there, the game took forever to set up so it was late.

Hard to say who would have won in the end but we had crappy objectives so probably them. Maelstrom is too random for me.

 

So ?

The mistake of the day was to overcharge plasma when using the combined profile with characters and i was punished instantly (rolling only 1's & 2's). Shouldn't have listened to my teammate.

My deep striking shooting was designed to get ride of lots of Taus so T3 4+ 1W models, not T4 2+ 2W Primaris. Still i did ~24 Wounds. If we had access to the Tactical Doctrine i would have easily wiped the 3 squads. Also i should have tried a charge with the Terminators to finish the Primaris off.

Even without losing (stupidly) the 4++ bubble of Azrael, it wouldn't have prevented me from losing my 9 models (i faced saturation and mortal wounds).

Disapointed by the lack of result with the Contemptor, it wasn't his day.

I really like the Aggressors (reroll advance without penalty to shooting is great, the double shooting would have wiped Deathwatch Vets T3). Looking forward Tactical Doctrine.

The terminators are again meh, if the Deathwing doesn't get some love in PA4 i just don't see the point to play them honestly. Deep Striking Aggressors would be the nail to the coffin.


Edited by Chaplain Elijah, 11 January 2020 - 02:04 AM.

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#55
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Lesson learnt, never ever overcharge with Azrael, or indeed any charccter unless it's last turn and can win you the game.
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#56
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Wow. Overcharging suicide fun eh? Poor Azzy - what an ignominious end 😜.

Thanks for the report though. Very interesting read.

Cheers
I
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#57
Chaplain Elijah

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Lesson learnt, never ever overcharge with Azrael, or indeed any charccter unless it's last turn and can win you the game.

 

We could debate if overcharging was necessary at that moment but doing it with the -1 to hit from firing both Combi Plasma profiles was me going full retard.

Especially with the S4 shoots doing nothing against Primaris in Cover.

 

 

Wow. Overcharging suicide fun eh? Poor Azzy - what an ignominious end .

Thanks for the report though. Very interesting read.

Cheers
I

Yeah that's exactly what i did : suicide my characters... it gave everyone a good laugh sweat.gif


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#58
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That's a legendary moment, right there. I'm sure you and your gaming group will be talking about it for years to come.
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#59
Grand Master Raziel

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My thoughts on playing against this Tau list are a little unconventional, but I think unconventional might be what you need with what you've got.

 

There's a lot of stuff needs to be boltered down before you get to the Riptide and the Suit Commander. Yes, use the drop pod, but don't fill it with Vets. Instead, chuck in a couple of bog-standard 5-man Tac Squads. They can bolter down Fire Warriors just as well as Vets for considerably less points, and they don't require a lot of character support. Field one more 5-man Tac Squad with maybe a missile launcher to sit on an objective, and you've got a battalion and the CP it brings.

Next, I'm thinking the Aggressors and the Terminators, but set up both on the table, in proximity to Azrael and an Apothecary. Have them walk up the table hosing down anything they have range on. Take a Librarian as your second HQ to cast Aversion on the Riptide.

Stick in the Bike Squad to have something fast to nab objectives with. It's also another 12 bolter shots you can rapidly add to the podding Tacs' firepower.

This leaves you with about 100 points left over. I'd want to throw in some plasma so you can use WotDA, but 100 points isn't really enough for a good plasma Vet squad or Dev Squad. You could manage a 5-man Dev Squad with 2 plasma cannons, which would be okay, or you could throw plasmas and combi plasmas on the podding Tacs and the Bikes. The Bikes in particular would be a better target than the hypothetical Devs for WotDA, but sometimes it's more important to have more bodies on the table than it is to kit up the ones you've got with extra toys. The drop Tacs and the Bikes have their jobs to do, and if you can clear out the Fire Warriors and Drones, then you might be able to bolter down or charge the Riptide and Commander.

 

Also remember both those suits have Fly, so if your ML-packing Tac Squad gets ignored, Flakk Missile strat.

Anyway, that's what I'd try to do with the models you've got against that Tau list.


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#60
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We could debate if overcharging was necessary at that moment but doing it with the -1 to hit from firing both Combi Plasma profiles was me going full retard.
Especially with the S4 shoots doing nothing against Primaris in Cover.


I've had Azzy die far too often from overcharging, I just never do it now as a rule lol.

Primaris killing needs high shot ap-1 or 2 damage 2 weaponry, something we don't have in abundance unfortunately without overcharging. When we get litanies our plasma units are going to have a field day with the +1 to hit, I can see multiple cheap chaplains for me.
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#61
Chaplain Elijah

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My thoughts on playing against this Tau list are a little unconventional, but I think unconventional might be what you need with what you've got.
 
There's a lot of stuff needs to be boltered down before you get to the Riptide and the Suit Commander. Yes, use the drop pod, but don't fill it with Vets. Instead, chuck in a couple of bog-standard 5-man Tac Squads. They can bolter down Fire Warriors just as well as Vets for considerably less points, and they don't require a lot of character support. Field one more 5-man Tac Squad with maybe a missile launcher to sit on an objective, and you've got a battalion and the CP it brings.

Next, I'm thinking the Aggressors and the Terminators, but set up both on the table, in proximity to Azrael and an Apothecary. Have them walk up the table hosing down anything they have range on. Take a Librarian as your second HQ to cast Aversion on the Riptide.

Stick in the Bike Squad to have something fast to nab objectives with. It's also another 12 bolter shots you can rapidly add to the podding Tacs' firepower.

This leaves you with about 100 points left over. I'd want to throw in some plasma so you can use WotDA, but 100 points isn't really enough for a good plasma Vet squad or Dev Squad. You could manage a 5-man Dev Squad with 2 plasma cannons, which would be okay, or you could throw plasmas and combi plasmas on the podding Tacs and the Bikes. The Bikes in particular would be a better target than the hypothetical Devs for WotDA, but sometimes it's more important to have more bodies on the table than it is to kit up the ones you've got with extra toys. The drop Tacs and the Bikes have their jobs to do, and if you can clear out the Fire Warriors and Drones, then you might be able to bolter down or charge the Riptide and Commander.
 
Also remember both those suits have Fly, so if your ML-packing Tac Squad gets ignored, Flakk Missile strat.

Anyway, that's what I'd try to do with the models you've got against that Tau list.


What was said yesterday is that my list tend to lack board control and i agree with you that tactical squads can do some work. That being said i think they don't have enough firepower with bolters to saturate those Taus. And i also noticed how effective Deathwatch Storm Shields spam was against Tau shooting in my 2vs2 (the Tau player complained about that a LOT). So i was thinking... what about Storm Shield + Storm Bolter Vets in the Drop Pod for a Deep Strike T1 ?

 

Regarding the librarian i'm definitly going to try him in my next game, Aversion + Mind Wipe could really mess up with the Taus WS4+.

 

About the Aggressors they are great but with a little character support (Master of Maneuver and the incoming Catechism of Fire) they could be deadly.

 

 

1199pts

 

/// HQ ///

Interrogator Chaplain = Crozius & Storm Bolter, Warlord & Master of Maneuver, Catechism of Fire = 82pts

Librarian = Force Sword & Storm Bolter, Aversion & Mind Wipe = 90pts

 

/// TROOPS ///

Tactical Squad = Sergeant + 3 Marines with Bolters, Marine with Missile Launcher = 80pts

Tactical Squad = Sergeant + 3 Marines with Bolters, Marine with Missile Launcher = 80pts

Tactical Squad = Sergeant + 3 Marines with Bolters, Marine with Missile Launcher = 80pts

 

/// ELITES ///

Aggressor Squad = Sergeant + 5 Aggressors with Boltstorm Gauntlets & Grenade Launchers = 222pts

Company Veterans = Sergeant + 4 Vets with Storm Bolter & Storm Shield = 90pts

Company Veterans = Sergeant + 3 Vets with Storm Bolter & Storm Shield = 72pts

 

/// HEAVY SUPPORT ///

Contemptor Mortis = x4 Lascannons = 168pts

Rapier Carrier = Quad Launcher, 2 Gunners with Bolt Pistol = 85pts

Rapier Carrier = Quad Launcher, 2 Gunners with Bolt Pistol = 85pts

 

/// TRANSPORT ///

Drop Pod = Storm Bolter = 65pts

 

Double Rapier Carrier throw 8 up to 24 S5 shoots without LoS from 60''.

Aggressors would reroll Advance and get +1 to Wound from the Chaplain. They throw 42 up to 72 bolter shoots and can double tap when immobile.

Drop Pod with Vets/Librarian deep strike T1 and throw 44 bolter shoots, thanks to their 3++ they should tank any incoming fire. Librarian cast Aversion / Mind Wipe on the Riptide.

Contemptor is there to try taking the Riptide off once the Drones & Fire Warriors are gone (with as much saturation it should be fast hopefully).

Finally the tactical squads are there for objective grabbing and firing support (Krak/Flak Missiles on the Riptide).


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#62
Grand Master Raziel

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7 Vets with storm bolters and storm shields have the equivalent firepower of 14 Tactical Marines. If you give storm bolters to the sergeants of the proposed pair of podding Tac Squads, they'd have the equivalent firepower of 12 Tactical Marines. They wouldn't have the protection of storm shields, but they'd have the protection of more bodies, and being an overall lower-priority target. Either way, it's not outstanding firepower, but the pair of Tac Squads ought to do a pretty credible job boltering down one of the 10-man Fire Warrior squads the turn they come in, which is what you need it to do.


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#63
Chaplain Elijah

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7 Vets with storm bolters and storm shields have the equivalent firepower of 14 Tactical Marines. If you give storm bolters to the sergeants of the proposed pair of podding Tac Squads, they'd have the equivalent firepower of 12 Tactical Marines. They wouldn't have the protection of storm shields, but they'd have the protection of more bodies, and being an overall lower-priority target. Either way, it's not outstanding firepower, but the pair of Tac Squads ought to do a pretty credible job boltering down one of the 10-man Fire Warrior squads the turn they come in, which is what you need it to do.

 
You forgot the Sergeants of the Vets squads msn-wink.gif
Also i was thinking it would be better to make 3 squads of 3 to force the Tau player to split his fire to get ride of them.
So if we want to compare with the tactical :
 
Company Veterans = Sergeant + 2 Vets with Storm Bolter & Storm Shield = 54pts
Company Veterans = Sergeant + 2 Vets with Storm Bolter & Storm Shield = 54pts
Company Veterans = Sergeant + 2 Vets with Storm Bolter & Storm Shield = 54pts
 
162pts, 9 Wounds, 3+/3++, 36 bolters shoots, can put all of them in the Drop Pod + Librarian with Storm Bolter (44 shoots after Deep Strike)
 
Tactical Squad = Sergeant with Chainsword & Storm Bolter + 4 Marines with Bolters = 62pts
Tactical Squad = Sergeant with Chainsword & Storm Bolter + 4 Marines with Bolters = 62pts
Tactical Squad = Sergeant with Chainsword & Storm Bolter + 4 Marines with Bolters = 62pts
 
186pts, 15 Wounds, 3+, 36 bolters shoots, can put 2 squads in the Drop Pod without Librarian (28 shoots after Deep Strike)
 
---
 
If i had to try to make both of them work in one list i could see the 2 tactical squads in one Drop Pod, the third in a second Drop Pod along 2x2 Vets & Librarian.
 
1205pts
 
/// HQ ///
Interrogator Chaplain = Crozius & Storm Bolter, Warlord & Master of Maneuver, Catechism of Fire = 82pts
Librarian = Force Sword & Storm Bolter, Aversion & Mind Wipe = 90pts
 
/// TROOPS ///
Tactical Squad = Sergeant + 3 Marines with Bolters, Marine with Missile Launcher = 80pts
Tactical Squad = Sergeant + 3 Marines with Bolters, Marine with Missile Launcher = 80pts
Tactical Squad = Sergeant + 3 Marines with Bolters, Marine with Missile Launcher = 80pts
Tactical Squad = Sergeant with Chainsword & Storm Bolter + 4 Marines with Bolters = 62pts
Tactical Squad = Sergeant with Chainsword & Storm Bolter + 4 Marines with Bolters = 62pts
Tactical Squad = Sergeant with Chainsword & Storm Bolter + 4 Marines with Bolters = 62pts
 
/// ELITES ///
Aggressor Squad = Sergeant + 5 Aggressors with Boltstorm Gauntlets & Grenade Launchers = 222pts
Company Veterans = Sergeant + 4 Vets with Storm Bolter & Storm Shield = 90pts
Company Veterans = Sergeant + 3 Vets with Storm Bolter & Storm Shield = 72pts
Company Veterans = Sergeant + 1 Vets with Storm Bolter & Storm Shield = 36pts
Company Veterans = Sergeant + 1 Vets with Storm Bolter & Storm Shield = 36pts
 
/// HEAVY SUPPORT ///
Contemptor Mortis = x4 Lascannons = 168pts
Rapier Carrier = Quad Launcher, 2 Gunners with Bolt Pistol = 85pts
Rapier Carrier = Quad Launcher, 2 Gunners with Bolt Pistol = 85pts
Rapier Carrier = Quad Launcher, 2 Gunners with Bolt Pistol = 85pts
 
/// TRANSPORT ///
Drop Pod = Storm Bolter = 65pts
Drop Pod = Storm Bolter = 65pts
 

Triple Rapier Carrier throw 12 up to 36 S5 shoots without LoS from 60''.

Drop Pods with Tactical/Vets/Librarian deep strike T1 and throw 64 bolter shoots. Librarian cast Aversion / Mind Wipe on the Riptide.

Aggressors would reroll Advance and get +1 to Wound from the Chaplain. They throw 42 up to 72 bolter shoots and can double tap when immobile.

Contemptor is there to try taking the Riptide off once the Drones & Fire Warriors are gone (with as much saturation it should be fast hopefully).


Edited by Chaplain Elijah, 12 January 2020 - 10:45 AM.

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#64
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Don't forget those three Tactical squads just got you a battalion and +5 cp.

It's an interesting take, lots of dakka, one thing I think you have to consider is getting an LT into the mix, improving the wound ratio improves the sheer number of saves to be made which will clear those squads and start forcing morale.

#65
Chaplain Elijah

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Don't forget those three Tactical squads just got you a battalion and +5 cp.

It's an interesting take, lots of dakka, one thing I think you have to consider is getting an LT into the mix, improving the wound ratio improves the sheer number of saves to be made which will clear those squads and start forcing morale.

 

Yeah i edited my post with a reworked list msn-wink.gif

I could drop the Chaplain for a Lieutenant indeed, add him a Jump Pack and Deep Strike around him...


Edited by Chaplain Elijah, 12 January 2020 - 10:57 AM.

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#66
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I played a fun 600pt game on Friday, aggressors and a Deathwing all storm bolter unit, they hosed three large chaff units in under two full turns of shooting, I ran out of targets because I was re-rolling those pesky ones...


At 60pts a standard LT is in fact usually my warlord (jump pack HQs tend to be dead and have given up +1 VP for kingslayer by turn 3 =) )

These threads have moved Vets back into my lists Elijah, thank you, with remembering they can take wounds for HQs too!
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#67
G8Keeper

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The only issue for such small squads of vets is you give away first strike very easily if drop podding in on turn 1. I've toyed with running a small 3 man squad and a champion as a cheap counter charge unit and a grav/storm shield equipped squad from 7th that needs some use.

I might get my tau ready for battle soon so I'll share any insights I glean from games I play. I plan to be far more all round hobby active this year.
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#68
Grand Master Raziel

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You forgot the Sergeants of the Vets squads msn-wink.gif

 

So I did! But that also means the pair of Vet Squads is about 40pts more expensive than the pair of Tac Squads. Before they were roughly equal.

The idea behind the pair of Tacs was twofold: give you something that could do some work against the chaff without it costing too many points or requiring a lot of character support while at the same time filling some of the Troops slot needed to fill a battalion.  The idea that came out of the discussion of giving storm bolters to the sergeants is definitely a good one for the purpose they're being put to.

 

Part  of the point was to reserve the character support for the crunchier units in your collection. If the pod just has a couple Tac Squads whose job it is to hose some Fire Warriors, then you can drop it anywhere and pretty much not worry about supporting it afterwards. Your opponent may hose them afterwards, but doing so takes the heat off your more important units, and you're not out anything important. If you double down on the investment and include a character, that becomes a much more significant part of your army and you become a lot more concerned about supporting and preserving it.

Also, I figured it was a list you could fairly easily manage with models you currently have to hand.


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#69
Chaplain Elijah

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I might get my tau ready for battle soon so I'll share any insights I glean from games I play. I plan to be far more all round hobby active this year.

Looking forward for that :)

 

 

 

Also, I figured it was a list you could fairly easily manage with models you currently have to hand.

 

Well i'm going to keep expanding my collection in the following months so it's not a issue.

Given i use MK3 as vets i should convert a Breacher Squad(s) to play these Storm Bolter/Shield Vets :

 

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#70
Grand Master Raziel

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Those are some cool minis, but they'd be for a very particular list. I've used the robed Vets and seated magnets in them so I can swap the arms out.

If you do that, I recommend using a disposable mini to make a template you can follow, so you keep your magnet polarities consistent.

That said, I thought you might appreciate a list you could run right away, rather than one you have to build up to. Because currently the sexiest build we have is Ravenwing-heavy.

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#71
Chaplain Elijah

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Those are some cool minis, but they'd be for a very particular list. I've used the robed Vets and seated magnets in them so I can swap the arms out.

If you do that, I recommend using a disposable mini to make a template you can follow, so you keep your magnet polarities consistent.

That said, I thought you might appreciate a list you could run right away, rather than one you have to build up to. Because currently the sexiest build we have is Ravenwing-heavy.


I don't magnetize yet my models. Regarding the robed vets i'm planning to use them as Sergeants for my Tactical/Devastator squads.

And yeah i'm aware Ravenwing lists are better but they are quite expensive and for now i want to build my Greenwing first.


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#72
Grand Master Raziel

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I use robed Vets as both squad sergeants and Vet squad members. I highly recommend using magnets to enable yourself to swap their weapons around. You will not regret doing so.

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#73
Chaplain Elijah

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So PA4 is almost up and with the Deathwing buffs here am i dreaming again about purging the blue xenos in noble Combat whistling.gif

 

- Canticle of Hate (to do the 9'' charge and stay in Combat)

- Overwatch on 6's (because he play with increased range instead of Overwatch on 5's)

- Cannot be wounded on better than 4+ (stratagem that greatly help T4 Terminators)

- 2+ Armor Save (against S5 AP0 Fire Warriors)

- 3++/4++ (either i go Storm Shields or Azrael bubble)

- 5+++ (Ancient relic)

 

With some saturation to diminish his hitting potential before T2 Charge, it actually sounds manageable.


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#74
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I was figuring something similar.

Drop knights with an ancient as the warlord, with the 5+++ banner and master of maneuver. The knights can only be wounded on a 4+ due to transhuman physiology, and get another -1 to be wounded through fortress of shields.

They can only be hit on 6+, can only be wounded on 5+, and have a 2+/3++/5+++ save. Can charge with rerrolls, and hit 41 times for a 10 man squad.

And it costs you only 3cp.

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- Battle cry of the Wings of Dawn, a Dark Angel's Successor Chapter

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#75
Chaplain Elijah

Chaplain Elijah

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I was figuring something similar.

Drop knights with an ancient as the warlord, with the 5+++ banner and master of maneuver. The knights can only be wounded on a 4+ due to transhuman physiology, and get another -1 to be wounded through fortress of shields.

They can only be hit on 6+, can only be wounded on 5+, and have a 2+/3++/5+++ save. Can charge with rerrolls, and hit 41 times for a 10 man squad.

And it costs you only 3cp.

 

That "cannot be wounded on better than 5+" combo only works in Combat unfortunately but otherwise i agree msn-wink.gif


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