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Forward Operatives and Snipers


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#1
Zhaharek

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Quick Question, does anyone know if Forward Operatives is the same in the updated CSM book, or if it's been altered?


Edited by Zhaharek, 28 March 2019 - 10:03 PM.

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#2
Panzer

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Doesn't really matter as the change to Forward Operatives is part of the beta rule that takes away turn 1 deep strike so it's still in effect if you play with beta rules even if the new Codex says otherwise.


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#3
Iron Father Ferrum

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Doesn't really matter as the change to Forward Operatives is part of the beta rule that takes away turn 1 deep strike so it's still in effect if you play with beta rules even if the new Codex says otherwise.


FO in it's original incarnation was never affected by the turn 1 deep strike restriction. It's academic in any case.
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#4
Panzer

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Doesn't really matter as the change to Forward Operatives is part of the beta rule that takes away turn 1 deep strike so it's still in effect if you play with beta rules even if the new Codex says otherwise.


FO in it's original incarnation was never affected by the turn 1 deep strike restriction. It's academic in any case.

 

 

Well yes and no. The actual turn 1 deep strike restriction doesn't touch the Stratagem, but the turn 1 deep strike restriction beta rule is actually a set of beta rules which includes changes to infiltration Stratagems as well. ^^


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#5
Saadjor

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Okay guys, after reading vigilus ablaze:
We need snipers! :P

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#6
adreal

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Instead of forward operatives could you imagine a 1cp (okay 2cp is more realistic) strat that gives a unit for the shooting phase to act like snipers (as in, ignoring the character targeting rules and being able to pick a model out of a squad)

#7
Panzer

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Instead of forward operatives could you imagine a 1cp (okay 2cp is more realistic) strat that gives a unit for the shooting phase to act like snipers (as in, ignoring the character targeting rules and being able to pick a model out of a squad)

 

Only when there are some restrictions. Nobody wants Lascannon snipers in the game.


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#8
Iron Father Ferrum

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Instead of forward operatives could you imagine a 1cp (okay 2cp is more realistic) strat that gives a unit for the shooting phase to act like snipers (as in, ignoring the character targeting rules and being able to pick a model out of a squad)


Only when there are some restrictions. Nobody wants Lascannon snipers in the game.

Says you! But yeah, it probably is as terrible idea.
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#9
adreal

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Instead of forward operatives could you imagine a 1cp (okay 2cp is more realistic) strat that gives a unit for the shooting phase to act like snipers (as in, ignoring the character targeting rules and being able to pick a model out of a squad)


Only when there are some restrictions. Nobody wants Lascannon snipers in the game.

Not going to lie, first thought was havocs lol. Maybe something like modelsarmed with bolt weapons can ignore targetting restrictions for characters and can pick casualties out of a enemy unit. May not use endless cacophony with this strategem

#10
Daemon Prince Marbas

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That would be a cool rule. I'd love if for three command points we had a Stratagem that made the opponent unable to bring in reserves until turn 3.

#11
ChazSexington

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Instead of forward operatives could you imagine a 1cp (okay 2cp is more realistic) strat that gives a unit for the shooting phase to act like snipers (as in, ignoring the character targeting rules and being able to pick a model out of a squad)


Only when there are some restrictions. Nobody wants Lascannon snipers in the game.

Says you! But yeah, it probably is as terrible idea.

 

 

I remember anything with Ordnance being used as character sniping cannons previously.

 

I wouldn't put it past them.


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#12
slitth

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Would a anti-sniper stratagem not be more in nature of the Alpha Legion.

After all we all look the same ph34r.png


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#13
Daemon Prince Marbas

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That'd be cool, or a Warlord Trait that when targeted by snipers or character hunters Alpha Legion Warlords cannot be targeted if there's a screen.

#14
slitth

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That'd be cool, or a Warlord Trait that when targeted by snipers or character hunters Alpha Legion Warlords cannot be targeted if there's a screen.

 

If is a warlord trait, then the warlord should be close to a unit of astartes and not be the closes target for it to come into effect.

If its in is effect he cannot be target by snipers or other harmful effect that target characters.


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#15
Xenith

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That'd be cool, or a Warlord Trait that when targeted by snipers or character hunters Alpha Legion Warlords cannot be targeted if there's a screen.


How about a warlord trait where if they kill your warlord, it turns out it wasn't actually your warlord,and you pick a different character to be the warlord? 😁

Loving that alpha! The Legion are strong contenders for my starting a new army...

Fluff wise, how do you resolve things like Dark Apostles in the army? I can imagine them stirring up cultists, but not marines so much.

Help me get in the mind of an Alpha!
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#16
The Pariah

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Depends on how you view your Alpha Legion cell Xenith. Your Dark Apostles could be members who are meant to draw the attention of your foes so they cover themselves in Alpha Legion symbols and the chaos stars and books in order to let more covert operatives move into position for the killing blow. Perhaps they cover themselves in robes and drift into towns to convert members to the cause before leaving on the eve of rebellion. Or perhaps they pretend to be Alpharius themselves and wear the most ornamental gear possible and act more as a decoy against any possible assassinations.

 

In the end, you want to ask yourself what goal you want your Apostles to do. The Alpha Legion is the first and the last strike. We are the armored columns burning down cities and the silent blade killing kings. The Alpha and the Omega. We are all Alpharius and the Long War is ours to manipulate. 


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#17
Xenith

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Depends on how you view your Alpha Legion cell Xenith. Your Dark Apostles could be members who are meant to draw the attention of your foes so they cover themselves in Alpha Legion symbols and the chaos stars and books in order to let more covert operatives move into position for the killing blow. Perhaps they cover themselves in robes and drift into towns to convert members to the cause before leaving on the eve of rebellion. Or perhaps they pretend to be Alpharius themselves and wear the most ornamental gear possible and act more as a decoy against any possible assassinations.

In the end, you want to ask yourself what goal you want your Apostles to do. The Alpha Legion is the first and the last strike. We are the armored columns burning down cities and the silent blade killing kings. The Alpha and the Omega. We are all Alpharius and the Long War is ours to manipulate.


Awesome thoughts, thanks! I'm Old School CSM in that I was brought up on the old Index Astartes series so can have kind of linear thinking when it comes to legion characterisation - I need to break out of that box! A master of Comms supporting allies and confounding enemy targeting in equal measure fits the bill for the Dark Apostle.

But then is high tech Comms equipment at odds with a waxing warband within the eye?

I need to think of my warband direction first!

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#18
The Pariah

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Depends on how you view your Alpha Legion cell Xenith. Your Dark Apostles could be members who are meant to draw the attention of your foes so they cover themselves in Alpha Legion symbols and the chaos stars and books in order to let more covert operatives move into position for the killing blow. Perhaps they cover themselves in robes and drift into towns to convert members to the cause before leaving on the eve of rebellion. Or perhaps they pretend to be Alpharius themselves and wear the most ornamental gear possible and act more as a decoy against any possible assassinations.

In the end, you want to ask yourself what goal you want your Apostles to do. The Alpha Legion is the first and the last strike. We are the armored columns burning down cities and the silent blade killing kings. The Alpha and the Omega. We are all Alpharius and the Long War is ours to manipulate.


Awesome thoughts, thanks! I'm Old School CSM in that I was brought up on the old Index Astartes series so can have kind of linear thinking when it comes to legion characterisation - I need to break out of that box! A master of Comms supporting allies and confounding enemy targeting in equal measure fits the bill for the Dark Apostle.

But then is high tech Comms equipment at odds with a waxing warband within the eye?

I need to think of my warband direction first!

 

 

I can't remember exactly where it's from but ADB made a great post of the life of a warband within the Eye of Terror using the Word Bearers as an example of how they could progress but it can be applied to any warband. The Alpha Legion are a great force for going around as either mercenaries or for kneeling to a chaos lord then back-stabbing them and moving off to another supply point. Another suggestion would be if you're wanting a good starting point as to where your cell came from is what they did during the Horus Heresy. Did they act as a boarding force meant to cut off supplies to planets? Did they go down to Loyalist planets and de-stabilise them? Do they manipulate other warbands to hit their targets for them then come in to deal the last blow?

 

The best you can do right now is keep asking questions about your warband and see what answers you come up with. Why is it your warband is suffering right now? Did they regect Abbadons' offer to join the Black Legion and have been hounded ever since? Every question will reveal something new about your warband and next thing you know you'll have a good idea on what direction you want to take on them :)


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#19
slitth

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Would “Masters of lies - The forked tungue of the Hydra” not be a better title than “Apostles”
Someone that could turn any Cult or cause to the Legions benefit.
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#20
adreal

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I use a 'dark apostle' in my lists.
My warband has two halves
I have pure marine half, lead by a lord, a librarian and a chaplain with a legion tactical squad backed up by some heavy weapon teams and a command squad loaded with special weapons and chainswords (weapon for every task).

Then I have my corrupted half, lead by a master of possessions who encourages using chaos for personal gain to achieve the legions goal, he leads greater possessed (which he uses a corrupted version of the primarch project) the cultists who are in thrall to chaos and daemon engines, as well as any marines who have chosen to worship the gods (ie cult troops).

It let's me have the best of both worlds, age old veterans of the long war (along with new recruits who follow Alpharius' teachings), and then the ability to throw out daemon stuff as well

#21
Freakshow668

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Depends on how you view your Alpha Legion cell Xenith. Your Dark Apostles could be members who are meant to draw the attention of your foes so they cover themselves in Alpha Legion symbols and the chaos stars and books in order to let more covert operatives move into position for the killing blow. Perhaps they cover themselves in robes and drift into towns to convert members to the cause before leaving on the eve of rebellion. Or perhaps they pretend to be Alpharius themselves and wear the most ornamental gear possible and act more as a decoy against any possible assassinations.

In the end, you want to ask yourself what goal you want your Apostles to do. The Alpha Legion is the first and the last strike. We are the armored columns burning down cities and the silent blade killing kings. The Alpha and the Omega. We are all Alpharius and the Long War is ours to manipulate.

Awesome thoughts, thanks! I'm Old School CSM in that I was brought up on the old Index Astartes series so can have kind of linear thinking when it comes to legion characterisation - I need to break out of that box! A master of Comms supporting allies and confounding enemy targeting in equal measure fits the bill for the Dark Apostle.

But then is high tech Comms equipment at odds with a waxing warband within the eye?

I need to think of my warband direction first!

I can't remember exactly where it's from but ADB made a great post of the life of a warband within the Eye of Terror using the Word Bearers as an example of how they could progress but it can be applied to any warband. The Alpha Legion are a great force for going around as either mercenaries or for kneeling to a chaos lord then back-stabbing them and moving off to another supply point. Another suggestion would be if you're wanting a good starting point as to where your cell came from is what they did during the Horus Heresy. Did they act as a boarding force meant to cut off supplies to planets? Did they go down to Loyalist planets and de-stabilise them? Do they manipulate other warbands to hit their targets for them then come in to deal the last blow?

The best you can do right now is keep asking questions about your warband and see what answers you come up with. Why is it your warband is suffering right now? Did they regect Abbadons' offer to join the Black Legion and have been hounded ever since? Every question will reveal something new about your warband and next thing you know you'll have a good idea on what direction you want to take on them :)

The Dark Apostle for my renegades is a Fabius-style apothecary, the prayer buffs represented by combat stims he and his two mad scientist orderlies have cooked up.
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