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Psychic Awakening 5 - The Greater Good


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#51
Toxichobbit

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Eh, really not convincing. Stealth Suits are much smaller so the difference is about the same and the Fusion Blasters on her old model were huge as well.

I'll stick with it either makes no sense or is wasted posing potential. YMMW.

 

 

Her current model has stripped down XV25 fusion blasters and she is about the same size as an XV25. The reason the fusion blasters look big on her current model is because she has tiny arms.

 

Her new model looks bigger than a XV25 and going off the artwork, the fusion blasters are signficantly bigger in proportion to her suit than her old ones. In addition they have auxiliary weapons adding extra weight.

 

Obviously it's all our own opinions and we can't be 100% sure on the size until we have the actual model to compare, but going off what we've got so far there seems to be more than enough justification for the secondary arms.
 


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#52
Charlo

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I wish she was like lazarus and could be made into a new generic character too...

At least she can be used with any Sept now. Better than nothing

Article hints maybe not Farsight (as she's trying to kill him) and that's what I play :'(

#53
Bryan Blaire

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I don't normally just flatly say something like this, but: That four arm suit thing is just dumb.

There is no acceptable justification for the extra mechanical arms:
"Weapons too heavy" - so they can be mounted on spindly extra arms off her pack, but you couldn't somehow have reinforced the armor with powered capability to lift them instead?

"Weapons too dangerous" - but you can still put them just inches away from her actual arms? Doesn't sound like they are that dangerous to me, just make an easily disconnected plate to mount them on so it can be dropped off if there's an overload/meltdown starting, or whatever the problem is.

Etc.

These are as bad and as unjustified as the oingy-boingy snow-shoe feet things on the Inceptors and Suppressors. Anything that could be justified as a need for the extra arms (or the oingy-boingy snow-shoes) could instead be built directly into the suit.

The saving grace of it will at least be that you should be able to relatively easily attach the weapons to her standard arms, and then use something to cover up any holes left by the missing robo-arms.
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#54
fire golem

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I think it looks cool, which is an acceptable enough justification for me personally. 


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#55
Frater Antodeniel

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The model look good and fit the Tau art style, plus personally, even if it stretch a bit, it remind me of the Dawn of War Dark Crusade model.


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#56
Wispy

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Why does she have a "nose"? huh.png

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#57
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I'm hoping we get some expansion into the Farsight Enclave and the weird, Dark Tau who made the jump across the warp and were touched by it.
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#58
Marshal Rohr

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I don't normally just flatly say something like this, but: That four arm suit thing is just dumb.

There is no acceptable justification for the extra mechanical arms:
"Weapons too heavy" - so they can be mounted on spindly extra arms off her pack, but you couldn't somehow have reinforced the armor with powered capability to lift them instead?

"Weapons too dangerous" - but you can still put them just inches away from her actual arms? Doesn't sound like they are that dangerous to me, just make an easily disconnected plate to mount them on so it can be dropped off if there's an overload/meltdown starting, or whatever the problem is.

Etc.

These are as bad and as unjustified as the oingy-boingy snow-shoe feet things on the Inceptors and Suppressors. Anything that could be justified as a need for the extra arms (or the oingy-boingy snow-shoes) could instead be built directly into the suit.

The saving grace of it will at least be that you should be able to relatively easily attach the weapons to her standard arms, and then use something to cover up any holes left by the missing robo-arms.


If I was gonna buy it, I’d just put it on the arms and hook the pods up to the Y Rack.

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#59
Knight Artorias

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I'm hoping we get some expansion into the Farsight Enclave and the weird, Dark Tau who made the jump across the warp and were touched by it.

 

I see what you did there...


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#60
Bryan Blaire

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If I was gonna buy it, I’d just put it on the arms and hook the pods up to the Y Rack.

Kinda what I was thinking about too - guess I'll wait and see if Farsight Enclaves can actually take her (although definitely not banking on it).

I'm right there with Panzer, either the extra arms better be able to do things that Shadowsun's arms couldn't otherwise (like spin at the shoulders 180 degrees behind her and fire effectively), or it's a complete waste of possibility and unnecessary design.
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#61
Brother-serpent Tylydox

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They look like stabilizer fins, why everyone is calling them "arms"?


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#62
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I like the design. The idea of mounting weapons on secondary arms, which presumably mirror the movements of her actual ones (but don't put any weight on them) is neat. 


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#63
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They look like stabilizer fins, why everyone is calling them "arms"?

People are talking about the second set of arms that hold the weapons that follow the pose of the real arms. 



#64
Panzer

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If I was gonna buy it, I’d just put it on the arms and hook the pods up to the Y Rack.

Kinda what I was thinking about too - guess I'll wait and see if Farsight Enclaves can actually take her (although definitely not banking on it).

I'm right there with Panzer, either the extra arms better be able to do things that Shadowsun's arms couldn't otherwise (like spin at the shoulders 180 degrees behind her and fire effectively), or it's a complete waste of possibility and unnecessary design.

 

 

Yeah I'll try and see if I can change the pose so the arms aren't exactly parallel. Should improve the pose and the feel of the additional pair a lot if I can pull it off.


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#65
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Regarding shadow sun, I think Corvis Belli is gonna sue somebody...

Also, they gave her a nose job I see...I guess to appeal to those people who fantasize over Tau waifus.

Regarding her old model (my favorite 40k model), in one of the books iirc, they stated that the transport she was riding in got shot down, with her Master Chief-ing the wreckage down to the planet, all her Crisis bodyguards were dead, and her weapons were damaged, so she picked up a set of fusion blasters and got to it.

I'm totally gonna buy it when it comes out, same if they ever do a Primaris Cato Sicarius.

Yo-how cool would it be if they made a character model for Kais and it was a Cold Star?

Edited by Trevak Dal, 05 January 2020 - 02:55 PM.

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#66
Claws and Effect

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Chance of Tau-hybrids??

Read Shadowbreaker by Steve Parker.

Edit: I have a theory on the extra set of arms on the suit.

In combat they mirror what her actual arms do.

Out of combat she can disconnect the extra arms and fold them back out of the way, so she can actually do stuff with her hands without those giant fusion blasters getting in the way.

Edited by Claws and Effect, 05 January 2020 - 03:42 PM.

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#67
Claws and Effect

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I don't normally just flatly say something like this, but: That four arm suit thing is just dumb.

There is no acceptable justification for the extra mechanical arms:
"Weapons too heavy" - so they can be mounted on spindly extra arms off her pack, but you couldn't somehow have reinforced the armor with powered capability to lift them instead?

"Weapons too dangerous" - but you can still put them just inches away from her actual arms? Doesn't sound like they are that dangerous to me, just make an easily disconnected plate to mount them on so it can be dropped off if there's an overload/meltdown starting, or whatever the problem is.

Etc.

These are as bad and as unjustified as the oingy-boingy snow-shoe feet things on the Inceptors and Suppressors. Anything that could be justified as a need for the extra arms (or the oingy-boingy snow-shoes) could instead be built directly into the suit.

The saving grace of it will at least be that you should be able to relatively easily attach the weapons to her standard arms, and then use something to cover up any holes left by the missing robo-arms.


If she only had one set of arms with those giant guns permanently attached to them, she would be incapable of actually doing anything with her hands. She'd need help to pick something up off the ground that is right in front of her.

With the guns on a second set of arms that mirror the motion of her natural arms, she can simply un-synch the arms if she needs to do something with her hands.
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#68
Mazer Rackham

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If she only had one set of arms with those giant guns permanently attached to them, she would be incapable of actually doing anything with her hands. She'd need help to pick something up off the ground that is right in front of her.

With the guns on a second set of arms that mirror the motion of her natural arms, she can simply un-synch the arms if she needs to do something with her hands.

 

 

My response to the reveal in the context of the extra arms:

 

"Oh look, E-SWAT Landmates."

 

And that's all I'll say about that.

 

MR.


Edited by Mazer Rackham, 05 January 2020 - 04:31 PM.

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#69
Bryan Blaire

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If she only had one set of arms with those giant guns permanently attached to them, she would be incapable of actually doing anything with her hands. She'd need help to pick something up off the ground that is right in front of her.

With the guns on a second set of arms that mirror the motion of her natural arms, she can simply un-synch the arms if she needs to do something with her hands.

Let's be sensible about this - what could she possible be doing in the middle of combat that requires the use of hands and the detriment of possibly unsyncing the combat arms that wouldn't be better served by waiting until combat is done and simply unmounting the weapons from the arms, or using the hands that are built into the arms?

The hands doing the manipulation wouldn't be her real hands anyway, they are Crisis Suit-style hands.

If you have no armament on the real arms, then there's no reason to have them out there.

It's a dumb design - it makes less sense than the Dreadknight, because at least for the Dreadknight, there's no indication that the Imperium have the AI/tech-capability to use totally automated arms with a pilot inside a pilot compartment, unlike the Tau, which is exactly how Crisis Suits work.

Also, going by the positioning of the arms in the quad configuration, there are going to be positions that the real arms might be in that make it unnecessarily complicated, if not impossible, for the AI to account for working around that could potentially delay use of the weapons in combat - the real arms being encased in armor and forward of the artificial ones will be in the way and doing nothing as currently armed. It's a detriment, not a benefit.

You have real unarmed arms making the combat process more complicated, and even a few additional fractions of a second of time for the AI to calculate how to move around them is time wasted and the potential for an enemy to start getting a shot off, and possibly move without being hit in return (especially if the real arms move to protect the body, possibly forcing the AI to once again recalculate movement to keep a shot on target).

At the very least, the real arms should mount secondary weapons, or it makes no sense to have them out.

Truthfully, it doesn't make a lot of sense for any of her real appendages or head to be exposed outside the central pod, but I realize that they were going for something other than "Yet another Crisis Suit Commander" - just doesn't make a ton of sense.

And if they aren't going to arm the real arms, then they should have make them smaller, say terminating where her real arms end so that they are easy to get out of the way of the artificial ones and can be defended more readily.
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#70
Claws and Effect

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If she only had one set of arms with those giant guns permanently attached to them, she would be incapable of actually doing anything with her hands. She'd need help to pick something up off the ground that is right in front of her.

With the guns on a second set of arms that mirror the motion of her natural arms, she can simply un-synch the arms if she needs to do something with her hands.

Let's be sensible about this - what could she possible be doing in the middle of combat that requires the use of hands and the detriment of possibly unsyncing the combat arms that wouldn't be better served by waiting until combat is done and simply unmounting the weapons from the arms, or using the hands that are built into the arms?

The hands doing the manipulation wouldn't be her real hands anyway, they are Crisis Suit-style hands.

If you have no armament on the real arms, then there's no reason to have them out there.

It's a dumb design - it makes less sense than the Dreadknight, because at least for the Dreadknight, there's no indication that the Imperium have the AI/tech-capability to use totally automated arms with a pilot inside a pilot compartment, unlike the Tau, which is exactly how Crisis Suits work.

Also, going by the positioning of the arms in the quad configuration, there are going to be positions that the real arms might be in that make it unnecessarily complicated, if not impossible, for the AI to account for working around that could potentially delay use of the weapons in combat - the real arms being encased in armor and forward of the artificial ones will be in the way and doing nothing as currently armed. It's a detriment, not a benefit.

You have real unarmed arms making the combat process more complicated, and even a few additional fractions of a second of time for the AI to calculate how to move around them is time wasted and the potential for an enemy to start getting a shot off, and possibly move without being hit in return (especially if the real arms move to protect the body, possibly forcing the AI to once again recalculate movement to keep a shot on target).

At the very least, the real arms should mount secondary weapons, or it makes no sense to have them out.
I am being sensible about it.

I didn't say anything about needing to use her hands in the middle of combat. But I can envision any number of scenarios where combat is not actively occurring, but might happen at any moment.

Sure, she could just disconnect the fusion blasters from her arms when not in combat. But if she were unexpectedly attacked it would take precious seconds to reattach them to defend herself.

If she could just fold the extra arms back out of the way when not in combat she would still have her weapons ready at a moment's notice and not getting in the way when she doesn't need them.

It's actually an elegant solution to the problem of having huge weapons attached to your arms. If she only had one set of arms she'd either be unable to do anything with her hands or she'd have to disconnect her weapons. The second pair of arms that can presumably be folded back out of the way solves that problem.

Edit:

From what I've read about Shadowsun, she's also not as reluctant to engage in melee combat as most Tau, going so far as to actually fight Kor'Sarro Khan with a blade.

It is entirely possible that the design of the suit is intended to let her wield a melee weapon with something close to her own flesh and blood arms if she chooses. She understands honorable melee combat better than any Tau besides Farsight, and would absolutely engage an enemy she respects in it.

Edited by Claws and Effect, 05 January 2020 - 05:34 PM.

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#71
Bryan Blaire

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I am being sensible about it.

I didn't say anything about needing to use her hands in the middle of combat. But I can envision any number of scenarios where combat is not actively occurring, but might happen at any moment.

Sure, she could just disconnect the fusion blasters from her arms when not in combat. But if she were unexpectedly attacked it would take precious seconds to reattach them to defend herself.

If she could just fold the extra arms back out of the way when not in combat she would still have her weapons ready at a moment's notice and not getting in the way when she doesn't need them.

It's actually an elegant solution to the problem of having huge weapons attached to your arms. If she only had one set of arms she'd either be unable to do anything with her hands or she'd have to disconnect her weapons. The second pair of arms that can presumably be folded back out of the way solves that problem.

Since you are envisioning them, what could those scenarios be that she isn't using her real hands for anyway?

Artificially limiting totally robotic limbs with weapons due to slaved movements doesn't make any sense either.

It's a dumb design.

The ESWAT thing would make more sense, because there the primary/operator limbs are small and wouldn't ever be in the way. That's not the case in this situation - the arms are almost the same size (you can see that in the engineering drawings and on the model itself) - so there's going to be positionings where the slaved arms can't go becaus the main arms are in the way. It's less effective.
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#72
NTaW

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You two going to be OK letting each other have different opinions or is this going to keep going?
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#73
Bryan Blaire

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You two going to be OK letting each other have different opinions or is this going to keep going?

As a Moderator, are you ordering the discussion to end? Have the rules been broken in some way? We are discussing the model and the design behind it, and why I think it's dumb and others think it's sensible.

And if the request is that the discussion end, then one of the Mods needs to get down to the Tau forum and order it ended there as well - I'd then question the motive behind a board moderator ending on-topic hobby discussion on a hobby forum. Unless it's become personal, or you simply want to see certain opinions shut down.

I'm open to being convinced if someone can find an actual sensible reason for the situation as modeled, but I haven't seen one yet.
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#74
Aztek

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I mean it's technically on topic, but she's got 4 arms whoever likes it or not. I don't really have a dog in this fight.



#75
Bryan Blaire

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I mean it's technically on topic, but she's got 4 arms whoever likes it or not. I don't really have a dog in this fight.

And I don't necessarily mind the four arms - its the lack of armament on the primary set and the fact that they would get in the way, because they are almost exactly the scale of the secondary mechanical arms.

The first one is easily solved by simply placing armament on the primary arms.

I've yet to think of a solution to the second one, short of adding in a second joint and segment to the arm.

(See, it's constructive too)

-----------------

Edit:
From what I've read about Shadowsun, she's also not as reluctant to engage in melee combat as most Tau, going so far as to actually fight Kor'Sarro Khan with a blade.

It is entirely possible that the design of the suit is intended to let her wield a melee weapon with something close to her own flesh and blood arms if she chooses. She understands honorable melee combat better than any Tau besides Farsight, and would absolutely engage an enemy she respects in it.

That's a good point!

It doesn't solve the issue of the "real arms" getting in the way of the mechanical ones and preventing a full range of operation though.

Does she have a blade on the model/sprue she could use for that purpose (I didn't see one, although I will admit that my review wasn't as critical as it could have been), or is the expectation that she would need to be given one/pick one up on the battlefield?
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