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Potential Chapter Idea: Ace Asks an Awkward Question


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#26
Brother Lunkhead

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Coming along very nicely Brother Aceyes.gif I've got just a couple of observations if I may.....

 

Posted Yesterday, 03:22 PM

 

I'm considering the name Abyss Wardens for the Chapter. My reasoning being: the name can refer to the XI Legion's time spent in exile, and also their constant watch for incursions by the now-distant aliens that slew their Primarch.
 
As a bonus, it sounds like a Chapter that stoically watches and combats the forces of Heresy in the warp-storm-saturated Glastheim Rifts.
I mean, of course, that is also true of the Chapter, but the primary reasons for the name will remain tied to their own secret heritage. ph34r.png

 

This looks good. However, imho "Abyssal Wardens" sounds more natural than "Abyss Wardens". Of course a number of chapters use two nouns in their title and it works fine... Space Wolves. I just think the adjective "Abyssal" works better with "Wardens" whereas "Spacial Wolves"dry.png ..... not so much. Or.... it could just be mewacko.png

 

* Last survivors of the XI Legion are eaten by a freak Warp Storm on the galaxy's edge, en route to Terra with the body of their slain Primarch. Roughly 250~300 marines.
 
* Said survivors are spat out near the Glastheim Rifts, millennia later.
 
* They attempt contact with an Imperial world, which turns out to be a backwater agri-world with a respectable, devout population, and manage to attain some basic information (namely the approximate date and the fact The Emperor is now The God-Emperor, Blessed-He-Who-Is-Entombed-On-Holy-Terra to most people in the Imperium)
 
* Trying not to freak out, they look for signs of another Legion, and find a Chapter called the [Placeholders] of Ramosha, an Imperial Fists successor from the recent 10th Founding.
 
* The [Placeholders] and their brother Chapter, the Daggers of Drakon, are battle-worn and battered by heretic and alien attacks. When the Oceanborn offer to help both Chapters fight their enemies in exchange for information, the [Placeholders] agree to the terms. The Daggers do not, instead attacking both the [Placeholders] and the Oceanborn, accusing the Oceanborn of being heretics and the [Placeholders] of being seduced by Chaos.
 
* The fight would have gone incredibly badly for the Daggers, had they not (in a fit of MASSIVE hypocrisy) fallen into the grasp of Chaos once the battle began, flooding the [Placeholders] home world of Ramosha with un-natural, daemonic foes. As it stands, the battle was fiercely fought. The island containing the [Placeholders] fortress monastery was destroyed, sinking under the turbulent seas.
 
* The Daggers were eventually driven off by the [Placeholders] and the Oceanborn. The former's strength was all but spent, their numbers dwindled to the point of inevitable extinction.

 

This looks really goodthumbsup.gif

 

* The [Placeholders] made the XI Legion a deal: they would give the last of their geneseed to the Oceanborn (for use with geneseed tithes, maybe even maintaining a Company that is actually of Dorn's line, not 100% sure yet) and teach the Legion how to become a Chapter, but in return the Oceanborn must inherit the duties of the [Placeholders] - to protect the Glastheim Rifts and bring it back under Imperial control, and to avenge their bitter loss to the Daggers of Drakon.

 

On the whole, this is good, but I'm having a hard time visualizing a Dornian chapter ceeding its gene-seed to a non-Dornian group of Marines of unknown origin. The sons of Dorn are a particularly stubborn and proud lot. I'd have an easier time visuallizing them launching into a Kamikaze Crusade against their traitorous brothers, the Daggers of Drakon. The rest (orienting the Oceanborn in the ways of a Space Marine Chapter, promising to honor the duties of the Placeholders of Dorn after they die, etc.) seems plausible. With some slight modification the story as a whole is an excellent reentry into the Realm of the Emperor.

 

You are still left with the problem of turning the Oceanborn into an "official" chapter, recognized as such by the Imperium. I think the answer to that problem lies here:

 

Posted 06 January 2020 - 03:41 AM

 

In a fury, the Emperor exiles Nerius and his Legion, to wander the empty void beyond the galaxy for a thousand years as penance, with no man permitted to speak, write or otherwise make mention of the Emperor's Wayward Son or his Legion until such penance is completed.

 

When the Oceanborn meet up with Guilliman he is likely aware of this, and....... the thousand year penitent crusade of the Oceanborn is over. I think with a few stipulations (change your name, don't ever mention XI Legion, etc.) an official charter could be arranged.

 

post_offline.pngPosted Yesterday, 03:22 PM

 

I begin to see how ridiculously good writing skills are a legitimate requirement for projects like this, and so doubt begins to set in.

Perhaps this task is beyond me, but then again, what good is a challenge that doesn't push one's skills to the limit?

 

I like to think that we have room for all skill levels in these various projects in the Liber. However, I do consider you to be in possession of those "ridiculously good writing skills" therefore, you will accordingly be held to a higher standardmsn-wink.gif


Edited by Brother Lunkhead, 14 January 2020 - 08:02 PM.

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#27
Bjorn Firewalker

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On the whole, this is good, but I'm having a hard time visualizing a Dornian chapter ceeding its gene-seed to a non-Dornian group of Marines of unknown origin. The sons of Dorn are a particularly stubborn and proud lot. I'd have an easier time visuallizing them launching into a Kamikaze Crusade against their traitorous brothers, the Daggers of Drakon. The rest (orienting the Oceanborn in the ways of a Space Marine Chapter, promising to honor the duties of the Placeholders of Dorn after they die, etc.) seems plausible.

Well said. Say Dorn's sons sacrificed themselves to destroy the Daggers of Drakon Chapter Master-turned-Daemonhost, and the Oceanborn Apothecaries recovered their gene-seed to honor Dorn's sons' selflessness and courage (and secretly, use the gene-seed to rebuild their Legion-turned-Chapter), giving (some of) the gene-seed to the next Imperial Fists successor they encounter, with tales of the deceased Marines' valor?

Note: the Daggers of Drakon likely had a different name before they were corrupted. Maybe they were originally known as "Daggers of the Emperor"- a name sure to outrage Dorn's sons, for in attacking without just provocation, the Daggers betray the Emperor's principles in deed.
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#28
Ace Debonair

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Coming along very nicely Brother Ace:yes: I've got just a couple of observations if I may.....
 
...
 
This looks good. However, imho "Abyssal Wardens" sounds more natural than "Abyss Wardens". Of course a number of chapters use two nouns in their title and it works fine... Space Wolves. I just think the adjective "Abyssal" works better with "Wardens" whereas "Spacial Wolves"<_< ..... not so much. Or.... it could just be me:wacko:


After sounding it out a few times, I agree.
Abyssal Wardens for the Chapter it is, then! happy.png
 

This looks really good:tu:


Glad of that - I've been sat on that idea for a long time! biggrin.png
Literally years in the making, haha. sweat.gif
 

On the whole, this is good, but I'm having a hard time visualizing a Dornian chapter ceeding its gene-seed to a non-Dornian group of Marines of unknown origin. The sons of Dorn are a particularly stubborn and proud lot. I'd have an easier time visuallizing them launching into a Kamikaze Crusade against their traitorous brothers, the Daggers of Drakon. The rest (orienting the Oceanborn in the ways of a Space Marine Chapter, promising to honor the duties of the Placeholders of Dorn after they die, etc.) seems plausible. With some slight modification the story as a whole is an excellent reentry into the Realm of the Emperor.

 
That's the bit I'm struggling with, to be honest.
I originally had it framed as "Dornish Chapter, stubbornly refusing to die without the possibility of vengeance enacted against the Daggers, cede their geneseed to the Oceanborn for passing the test of geneseed tithes so somebody is left to avenge the Placeholders".

But the more I mull it over, the more I feel it's a weak solution.

 

You are still left with the problem of turning the Oceanborn into an "official" chapter, recognized as such by the Imperium. I think the answer to that problem lies here:
 
...
 
When the Oceanborn meet up with Guilliman he is likely aware of this, and....... the thousand year penitent crusade of the Oceanborn is over. I think with a few stipulations (change your name, don't ever mention XI Legion, etc.) an official charter could be arranged.


Actually... my original intent was for the Oceanborn to pretend they were the Placeholders, having shed their old identity and colours to indicate a total break from the Chapter that was blind to the heresy festering in their own brothers (sort of hinting at the Oceanborn's own disgust that 'Chaos Space Marines' is even a thing).

And while I'm sure there's Chapters who have changed their name and appearance over the millennia (without changing loyalty), again I can't be certain this isn't a weak link in the idea chain, so to speak.
 
EDIT:
You're right, however, in that IF Guilliman were to meet with the Oceanborn, he could essentially (albeit informally) declare their exile over and grant them a proper and official right to exist as a Chapter.
 
I can easily picture Guilliman visiting the tomb of his brother Nerius, too.
 
A sombre moment, with a Primarch returned to life stood before the ancient metal sarcophagus of a brother who died so long ago even his bones have become little more than dust. The room is dimly lit by a handful of ancient lights that give everything a faintly green tinge.
 
A minute passes, then another, as the Primarch of the XIII Legion muses on what could have been, remembering his brother. He wonders for a moment, what Nerius would think of Primaris marines. Essentially a perfected version of Argonar's failed, forbidden experiment. Would the XI Primarch delight at the result, or be furious that the work that caused his exile is now fully accepted, even needed, by the Imperium?
 
Perhaps Guilliman then sees the beaten and weathered remnant of the ancient shield that Nerius favoured in battle (of course modified to the XI Primarch's exacting specifications), and maybe smiles faintly at a distant memory of Nerius wryly assuring his brother that one day very soon the shield will be perfect, even while he's replacing the generator that powered it. 
 
Then Guilliman simply lays one hand on the cold sarcophagus, pauses for a moment, and leaves the room, never to return or to speak of what he has seen.
 
....Even so, I doubt I should put that in the article.
 
 

I like to think that we have room for all skill levels in these various projects in the Liber. However, I do consider you to be in possession of those "ridiculously good writing skills" therefore, you will accordingly be held to a higher standard;)

 
I'll certainly have to achieve quite some feat of writing to pull this off convincingly! laugh.png
 

Well said. Say Dorn's sons sacrificed themselves to destroy the Daggers of Drakon Chapter Master-turned-Daemonhost, and the Oceanborn Apothecaries recovered their gene-seed to honor Dorn's sons' selflessness and courage (and secretly, use the gene-seed to rebuild their Legion-turned-Chapter), giving (some of) the gene-seed to the next Imperial Fists successor they encounter, with tales of the deceased Marines' valor?

 
Oh, I like that. That'd be a much better way of the Oceanborn getting around the whole 'geneseed-tithe' problem.

Although I'm not sure if the Oceanborn would give any of the geneseed away if they were pretending to still be the Dorn-lineage Chapter, but that's a detail that's still in flux anyway.
 
Although I suppose it could be done via returning some of the spare geneseed to the AdMech for redistribution? Hmmm.

 

Note: the Daggers of Drakon likely had a different name before they were corrupted. Maybe they were originally known as "Daggers of the Emperor"- a name sure to outrage Dorn's sons, for in attacking without just provocation, the Daggers betray the Emperor's principles in deed.

 
I like that idea a lot, but "Daggers of Drakon" is actually their pre-corruption name.
 
The Daggers' homeworld is a planet called Drakon Primus, (which will be important for one of my other Chapters) and once they flee into the Glastheim Rifts themselves, the Chapter/Warband eventually rechristen themselves as the Hatecrowned.
 
The Hatecrowned are my main Chaos force at the moment (although I am working on a few others ph34r.png), and are the right-hand men of the warband that rules the Glastheim Rifts.
 
I'll save the rest of their story for another topic, though, otherwise I'll sidetrack myself! sweat.gif

Edited by Ace Debonair, 20 January 2020 - 10:27 AM.

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#29
Brother Lunkhead

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Posted Today, 04:19 AM

 

 

I can easily picture Guilliman visiting the tomb of his brother Nerius, too.

 

A sombre moment, with a Primarch returned to life stood before the ancient metal sarcophagus of a brother who died so long ago even his bones have become little more than dust. The room is dimly lit by a handful of ancient lights that give everything a faintly green tinge.

 

A minute passes, then another, as the Primarch of the XIII Legion muses on what could have been, remembering his brother. He wonders for a moment, what Nerius would think of Primaris marines. Essentially a perfected version of Argonar's failed, forbidden experiment. Would the XI Primarch delight at the result, or be furious that the work that caused his exile is now fully accepted, even needed, by the Imperium?

 

Perhaps Guilliman then sees the beaten and weathered remnant of the ancient shield that Nerius favoured in battle (of course modified to the XI Primarch's exacting specifications), and maybe smiles faintly at a distant memory of Nerius wryly assuring his brother that one day very soon the shield will be perfect, even while he's replacing the generator that powered it. 

 

Then Guilliman simply lays one hand on the cold sarcophagus, pauses for a moment, and leaves the room, never to return or to speak of what he has seen.

 

....Even so, I doubt I should put that in the article.

 

 Put this inyes.gif I think this would make an excellent sidebar in your article.

 

 

Brother Lunkhead, on 14 Jan 2020 - 12:59 PM, said:snapback.png

Well said. Say Dorn's sons sacrificed themselves to destroy the Daggers of Drakon Chapter Master-turned-Daemonhost, and the Oceanborn Apothecaries recovered their gene-seed to honor Dorn's sons' selflessness and courage (and secretly, use the gene-seed to rebuild their Legion-turned-Chapter), giving (some of) the gene-seed to the next Imperial Fists successor they encounter, with tales of the deceased Marines' valor?

 

Oh, I like that. That'd be a much better way of the Oceanborn getting around the whole 'geneseed-tithe' problem.

Although I'm not sure if the Oceanborn would give any of the geneseed away if they were pretending to still be the Dorn-lineage Chapter, but that's a detail that's still in flux anyway.

 

Although I suppose it could be done via returning some of the spare geneseed to the AdMech for redistribution? Hmmm.

 

Brother Lunkhead, on 14 Jan 2020 - 12:59 PM, said:snapback.png

Note: the Daggers of Drakon likely had a different name before they were corrupted. Maybe they were originally known as "Daggers of the Emperor"- a name sure to outrage Dorn's sons, for in attacking without just provocation, the Daggers betray the Emperor's principles in deed.

 

I like that idea a lot, but "Daggers of Drakon" is actually their pre-corruption name.

 

The Daggers' homeworld is a planet called Drakon Primus, (which will be important for one of my other Chapters) and once they flee into the Glastheim Rifts themselves, the Chapter/Warband eventually rechristen themselves as the Hatecrowned.

 

The Hatecrowned are my main Chaos force at the moment (although I am working on a few others ph34r.png), and are the right-hand men of the warband that rules the Glastheim Rifts.

 

To give credit where credit is due, all of these great comments and ideas come from Brother Bjorn.


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#30
Bjorn Firewalker

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I can easily picture Guilliman visiting the tomb of his brother Nerius, too.

A sombre moment, with a Primarch returned to life stood before the ancient metal sarcophagus of a brother who died so long ago even his bones have become little more than dust. The room is dimly lit by a handful of ancient lights that give everything a faintly green tinge.

A minute passes, then another, as the Primarch of the XIII Legion muses on what could have been, remembering his brother. He wonders for a moment, what Nerius would think of Primaris marines. Essentially a perfected version of Argonar's failed, forbidden experiment. Would the XI Primarch delight at the result, or be furious that the work that caused his exile is now fully accepted, even needed, by the Imperium?

Perhaps Guilliman then sees the beaten and weathered remnant of the ancient shield that Nerius favoured in battle (of course modified to the XI Primarch's exacting specifications), and maybe smiles faintly at a distant memory of Nerius wryly assuring his brother that one day very soon the shield will be perfect, even while he's replacing the generator that powered it.

Then Guilliman simply lays one hand on the cold sarcophagus, pauses for a moment, and leaves the room, never to return or to speak of what he has seen.

This would make a great scene. Say the Primarch encountered the former XI Legion on his way to [insert location name], during the Indomitus Crusade?

Of course, he wouldn't meet them alone- too great a risk of being assassinated. Maybe he was accompanied by some Custodes- plus some Marines from M30, who knew of the XI Legion's fate, but then spent the past 10 millennia in stasis, while Cawl tried to transform them into Primaris Marines- who could be trusted to keep their mouths shut?
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#31
Ace Debonair

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To give credit where credit is due, all of these great comments and ideas come from Brother Bjorn.


Yeah, they did - I even quoted Bjorn's post to get those comments, and have honestly no idea why the forum's decided to put your name on them instead. wacko.png

I must have recited the wrong incantation - I'll consult with the nearest Forgeworld and see what rituals must be enacted to fix it.

 

--==--==

 

The scene at Nerius' tomb may well make it into the finished article, then.

 

Throne knows I never have enough material for sidebars anyway! teehee.gif

 

 

I'm increasingly leaning towards a fancy storm shield being the XI Primarch's 'iconic' wargear, in the way that Ferrus had Forgebreaker and Mortarion had Silence.

 

It fits the pseudo-Hoplite look I'd have for the XI Legion, it's high-tech, and it's something none of the other Primarchs were ever known for. Plus, shields can be devastating weapons in their own right in the cut and thrust of melee, especially with a Primarch's strength behind it.

 

I just need a fitting name for it. laugh.png

 

 

 

My current thoughts on the Indomitus Crusade:

 

The Crusade turns up at the Glastheim Rifts already, or at least part of it does, bringing Primaris reinforcements to the Chapters there,

 

I've also already mentioned rumours that Guilliman was at Ramosha (the homeworld of the Placeholders / Abyssal Wardens) in the White Hawks' article. ph34r.png

 

It'd be easy enough for those rumours to be true - I imagine the meeting itself be would be brief and somewhat secretive, at least until Guilliman decides to officially certify the Abyssal Wardens as a Chapter, with whatever fanfare and procedure is required.

 

It'd probably go much like Bjorn describes above, in terms of retinue and so forth. Handfuls of ancient Ultramarines, who know something of the nature of the long-lost Oceanborn. A small group of Custodes, who know how to keep - or bury - The Emperor's secrets when required. And a Primarch, who for all his insight, intelligence and experience, doesn't quite know what to expect, and maybe even doesn't quite know how to feel.



#32
Brother Cambrius

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This has been cooking over really nicely indeed! Nice work Ace and form everyone adding in their suggestions and critique! :tu:

 

Now in terms of a name for the Storm Shields, I do have 2 potential options:

 

"Breakwater" to befit the Oceanborn ideas
"Bulwarks" - could do with an affix to it to make it more unique, maybe?

 

Cambrius


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#33
Ace Debonair

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Given it's the Primarch's shield I'm trying to name, "Breakwater" sounds better than "Bulwark", although both have a certain charm.
 
I might just go with something like "Stormwall". It still sounds like a weapon in its own right that way, while still sounding defensive.

Also a shield that literally fires lightning at people who strike it in close combat is pretty awesome, and mad-science-y enough for Nerius Argonar to bring to a fight.


I've been working on the outline for the Chapter, and I like how it looks so far.

Once that's sorted out, I'll post a topic for the Abyssal Wardens, and then I suppose I'll use this topic to have a go at sorting out the Oceanborn a bit more - their relations with other Legions, how Nerius and his brothers interacted, that sort of thing.
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