Sword Brother Adelard Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/b708da79.pdf Big Question now answered: BLACK TEMPLARS Designer’s Note: We have received a number of questions asking if, as a successor Chapter of the Imperial Fists, the Black Templars benefit from both the Knights of Sigismund and Legacy of Dorn rules (and whether they get access to the Imperial Fists’ Warlord traits, Stratagems, psychic powers and Relics etc. in addition to the Black Templars ones presented in Faith and Fury). To be clear, although the Black Templars are an Imperial Fists successor Chapter, they deviate significantly from its tactics and doctrines, and as such we have provided a bespoke, dedicated set of rules to represent them on the tabletop in Faith & Fury. They cannot make use of any of the rules found in Codex Supplement: Imperial Fists. Edited January 6, 2020 by Brother Adelard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Woo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
templarphoenix Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 At least I can bring 1 less book everytime I play. Hadda 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmu Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Yes! My insane reading of Devout Push WAS correct! Q: When using the Devout Push Stratagem, can a unit not within 1" of enemy units be selected? A: Yes. You can Pile In an unit that didn't charge! That's a game changer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtBlaster Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 The loss of fists strategems really hurts us, especially doubling up on WL traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydonianDragoon404 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Aurellian shroud being effected by fervent acclimation is a big deal. That's a must take combo for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 I think the Fists nerfbat is a step too far. A better balance would have been to leave access to strats, but remove the doctrine bonus. Devout Push at least makes sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Are we now the only chapter without access to master-crafted weapons? Boo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilamandaros Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 This was always going to be errata'd, you'd have to be kidding yourself if you thought GW would let us have access to both. Blender, painting.for.my.sanity, Marshal Laeroth and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecapn226 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 They could have at least let us keep Special Issue Wargear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Devout Push is bonkers good now. So you can select a unit that isn't within 1" of the enemy, pile in with it. Then if you don't make contact with the enemy (cause they're like on the other side of the board), you consolidate 6" So applications for this: Failed that deepstrike? That's fine, get in combat for next turn anyway. Pushing a slow unit across the board up to 12 inches with Canticle of Hate Avoiding overwatch Use the 3 CP strat to fight again Also keep in mind that if you do make contact with the enemy during the pile in, you can fight that round. Marius_Aurilius, Kyliadan and Hadda 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Laeroth Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 We were never, ever going to get GW blessings to use both sets of rules. It was unfortunate that they did not close that hole when PA2 came out, but realistically...it was pretty gamey to have both. CastellanDeMolay and Hadda 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 This would also be another way to get an advancing unit into close combat, so you move+advance and use devout push to get them into combat or just closer. Its a free 6" movement in the charge phase!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 I was never expecting full access to both. But the lack of a full suite of strats for us, as well as the notable omissions of mentioning either BT in the IF book, or the IF book in F&F made me think it was deliberate, made me think that it was partly planned, but just broken. However, it seems that it was just massively a negligent oversight after all? and they just didn't even consider the interaction?At the least, I thought access to some of the strats, the relics, and SIW would have been sensible. We now have less strats than the CF, who strangely have more than the IF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 This would also be another way to get an advancing unit into close combat, so you move+advance and use devout push to get them into combat or just closer. Its a free 6" movement in the charge phase!. It's not during the charge phase. It is used at the start of the Fight phase redmapa 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST.Lazarus Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I was never expecting full access to both. But the lack of a full suite of strats for us, as well as the notable omissions of mentioning either BT in the IF book, or the IF book in F&F made me think it was deliberate, made me think that it was partly planned, but just broken. However, it seems that it was just massively a negligent oversight after all? and they just didn't even consider the interaction? At the least, I thought access to some of the strats, the relics, and SIW would have been sensible. We now have less strats than the CF, who strangely have more than the IF! Indeed, it makes the Black Templar rules incredible weak compared to the other space marine chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Devout Push is bonkers good now. So you can select a unit that isn't within 1" of the enemy, pile in with it. Then if you don't make contact with the enemy (cause they're like on the other side of the board), you consolidate 6"I don't think you get to consolidate as part of DP. You just get a pile in move immediately, not a full fight sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyliadan Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I disagree : on the contrary, it lets you pick a unit and have it play the full fight phase, eschewing the charge phase completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 If so, the phrasing doesn't line up with any of the other stratagems that allow a unit to fight early or fight again. Counter-Offensive says 'select a unit, it fights next'. Devout Push just says 'that unit can pile in'. And that's the errata'ed sentence - if it was supposed to be a full fight sequence, they'd have clarified it as such. Otherwise, it's easily the best "fight first" stratagem in the game, far better than Counter-Offensive, while also costing fewer CP and allowing other movement shenanigans. That seems implausible to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 If so, the phrasing doesn't line up with any of the other stratagems that allow a unit to fight early or fight again. Counter-Offensive says 'select a unit, it fights next'. Devout Push just says 'that unit can pile in'. And that's the errata'ed sentence - if it was supposed to be a full fight sequence, they'd have clarified it as such. Otherwise, it's easily the best "fight first" stratagem in the game, far better than Counter-Offensive, while also costing fewer CP and allowing other movement shenanigans. That seems implausible to me. It doesn't allow you to fight first, it allows you to make contact with an enemy via piling in out of sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) I agree, but I'm responding to Kyliadan asserting that it allows a full fight sequence. If that is so, then since it occurs "at the start of the Fight phase", it's allowing you to fight first. My reading is that the stratagem allows you to immediately make a Pile In move (3", must move closer to the nearest enemy), but that's it. You can also select that unit to fight during the usual Fight Phase sequence if you are within 1" of an enemy at the time of selection, because no part of the stratagem says you cannot - at which point it will pile in again, attack, and then consolidate 6". Edited January 6, 2020 by Hymnblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) I think it still allows consolidation even if you don't make it to combat, because the wording is "When you consolidate" not "if" indicating that consolidation is going to happen whether you fought or not. Edited January 6, 2020 by Acebaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 That seems to me like a fairly tortured reading of the rules. Canticle of Hate has the same "when a friendly <CHAPTER> unit makes a pile-in or consolidate move" phrasing, but nobody plays it as a guaranteed 12" of movement in every fight phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyliadan Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) Right, I see where you're coming from. I read the strat as allowing you to fight (just like a unit activation) because otherwise, I just wasn't seeing the point. If it's just a "double pile-in" and 6" consolidate, the phrasing could have been a much simpler "this unit adds 3" to its consolidate/pile-in moves until the end of that phase". Edit : huh, since the FAQ mentions that you can use it even if not within 1" of an enemy... this means that you can use it on a BT unit that wouldn't have been able to fight otherwise (if it had charged it would be within 1"). So... if it does not imply that you can fight with the unit, it means you get to pile-in and gently stare down the enemy ? Who, on the other hand, could very well punch you ? GW is killing me Edited January 6, 2020 by Kyliadan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Aurellian shroud being effected by fervent acclimation is a big deal. That's a must take combo for us. why - for 3 Repulsors you need just 3" This was always going to be errata'd, you'd have to be kidding yourself if you thought GW would let us have access to both. Just as expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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