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Theorycrafting at 500 points.

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19 replies to this topic

#1
Claws and Effect

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Ok. So in the not too distant future (next Sunday A.D.) I have an escalation league starting up that begins at 500 points.

Quick personal history: I usually get stomped in these things. I want to change that.

So, I'm going to present my 500 point list and see if you guys think it looks as solid on paper as I do.

Shrike
2 Land Speeder Tempests
1 unit of Suppressors
1 unit of Vanguard Vets with a weird load out (because I ran out of points).

Since I know I don't have the units to hold objectives, my basic plan is to put a Tempest on either side of Shrike with the Vanguard in front and Suppressors behind. Doing that to leverage Shrikes rerolls to counter the -1 to hit penalty the Tempests and Suppressors will have when moving.

Also, between Shrikes WL trait and the Suppressors I shouldn't have to worry too much about overwatch.

So, am I being dumb or is it a solid plan given the low point limit?

Edited by Claws and Effect, 14 January 2020 - 03:38 PM.


#2
MajorNese

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I can personally attest the Shrike + Tempests combo - the mobility is awesome, the firepower is still accurate enough and will mulch anything below T7.

 

Can't say how the Suppressors fare - mine always died first (they're T4 2W after all) and are quite expensive per model.

I'd prefer Inceptors - they're more expensive per model than suppressors, but the considerably increased resilience could help you stay on the field longer, and they complement Shrike nicely. But yes, points are tight on the first step - even replacing the VV with 5 bare jump pack assaulters would be 2p over the limit, scouts could be the only unit fitting the Inceptors bill for now.


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#3
thewarriorhunter

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It's small so I don't know what kind of board size you're looking at but would it be worth it to sacrifice some scouts to deny board area to your opponent? Maybe get them on an objective for some points? Use Shrike and the landspeeders to move around and hit and run the flanks?



#4
Claws and Effect

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It's small so I don't know what kind of board size you're looking at but would it be worth it to sacrifice some scouts to deny board area to your opponent? Maybe get them on an objective for some points? Use Shrike and the landspeeders to move around and hit and run the flanks?


I actually don't have any Scouts right now. I let my wife have the ones I wasn't using.

I plan on picking some more up eventually, but right now they can't help me.

#5
Shadow Captain Vyper

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Got a model list and equipment?


"A Mind Without Purpose Will Wander in Dark Places..."

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#6
Dracos

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I could be off on this but wouldn’t having the minimal requirement for a Patrol make you count as Battle Forged and garner you some CP to work with?

I’d start with 2 units of Intercessors .... but only because I try to keep things Primaris. Otherwise Bolter Scouts.

Edited by Dracos, 15 January 2020 - 01:26 PM.

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#7
MajorNese

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I could be off on this but wouldn’t having the minimal requirement for a Patrol make you count as Battle Forged and garner you some CP to work with?

2x1 Tempest and one squad of Suppressors (or Inceptors) is enough for an Outrider Detachment, that would even give him +1 CP compared to a patrol.


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#8
Dracos

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Nice :) So, 2 squads of Reivers and A unit of Aggressors would be similar then?

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#9
MajorNese

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Nice smile.png So, 2 squads of Reivers and A unit of Aggressors would be similar then?

Regarding CP? With one more HQ it's a vanguard detachment, sure.

 

It's easy to fill slots with min-sized primaris squads, but personally I usually lack a 3rd HQ (when running the usual battallion) to start new detachments.


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#10
Claws and Effect

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I decided to switch up the load out of the Vanguard Vet squad to dual chainswords for all of them, which let me add a 6th guy.

I think I'm just going to bank on being able to kill enough units early enough to have a numerical advantage late game. I have a decent amount of strength 6 and 7 shooting and should be able to get the Vanguard Vet squad into melee pretty easily. The first 2 weeks are at 500, and I'm not expecting to see any significant armor until it jumps to 1000.

The only kicker to this escalation league is that each player must have 1 HQ unit that is present in every game. I initially didn't want to use Shrike for that, but his rerolls are too valuable for the Tempests and Suppressors to pass up.

Edited by Claws and Effect, 15 January 2020 - 09:17 PM.

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#11
MajorNese

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The only kicker to this escalation league is that each player must have 1 HQ unit that is present in every game. I initially didn't want to use Shrike for that, but his rerolls are too valuable for the Tempests and Suppressors to pass up.

Well, he's a swiss army knife after all. Except for the Ex Tenebris carrier, I wouldn't know who else should be present always.

 

The full rerolls make moving heavy weapons or advancing assault weapons (Inceptors) much more reliable, he can target characters, he can fight well enough, and the charge reroll bubble combined with our strats can make quite a difference. I regularly used those to mop up stuff with Inceptors, spending a CP to still charge after advancing. Otherwise, especially with primaris only, we simply lack the units to leverage half of the jump pack/CC buffs, and we lack mobility.


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#12
Entry1

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The only kicker to this escalation league is that each player must have 1 HQ unit that is present in every game. I initially didn't want to use Shrike for that, but his rerolls are too valuable for the Tempests and Suppressors to pass up.

Well, he's a swiss army knife after all. Except for the Ex Tenebris carrier, I wouldn't know who else should be present always.

 

The full rerolls make moving heavy weapons or advancing assault weapons (Inceptors) much more reliable, he can target characters, he can fight well enough, and the charge reroll bubble combined with our strats can make quite a difference. I regularly used those to mop up stuff with Inceptors, spending a CP to still charge after advancing. Otherwise, especially with primaris only, we simply lack the units to leverage half of the jump pack/CC buffs, and we lack mobility.

 

 

 

Yeah Shrike is actually really good choice in my opinion, he will give your Vets the rerolls to charge, his pistol and claws are fantastic and for those 500 to 1000 point level games I feel like the no overwatch Warlord Trait could be game breaking.  Add to the fact he can probably land a first turn if you do have command points makes him a major threat in smaller games. People are always surprised by those two pistol shots that do mortal wounds add his mobility and sniper ability you can pick off those weak characters with no problem.  



#13
MajorNese

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Add to the fact he can probably land a first turn if you do have command points makes him a major threat in smaller games.

I know Shrike was mostly used to do suicidal charges back in the day, and we have the capacity to do first turn charges with him. But in his current incarnation, I find him better suited to lead a speedy blob of guns (Inceptors+Tempests for example), shoot characters from behind his meatshield, and only enter CC with his bodyguard to mop up targets that can't kill him/them in one go. Turn 2+ he and his buddies get a lot more reliable against characters - I've had regular primaris/Inceptors wipe out medium HQs with short-range shooting and CC just due to doctrine buffs, rerolls and 3A on the charge. In most of my games Shrike lost a few wounds when mopping up, but so far never actually died.

 

Though for the next tournament (King of the Hill style) I'll experiment with massed first turn charge:

Master of the Vanguard + Swift and Deadly + Vox Espiritum (+3" to all bubbles) on a phobos captain, 2x10 Reivers (advancing pre-game with Infiltrators strat), 2x5 Incursors and Shrike (charge rerolls for Phobos) should manage to tie down stuff across half the board. Probably not competitive, but experiences from that list might provide components for the following lists.


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#14
Dracos

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I love your willingness to experiment with a list you suspect is suboptimal in order to look for bits and piece that might serve better in another.

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#15
MajorNese

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Well, the single mission in that tournament is to hold objectives in the center - why not prevent the opponent from even leaving his deployment zone and creating pressure from turn 1 on? It's a monthly local store fun tournament without cost/prices, trying weird stuff and troll lists instead of the usual isn't that uncommon. And where else would I get 3 games in one day...

 

I've been eyeing the Vanguard WL traits for a while - if this charge combo works in getting 16ppm Reivers with a bucket of attacks into CC right away, it might be actually useful in regular lists - maybe put Ex Tenebris on a phobos LT instead of a regular LT, to unlock those traits. Either way, Shrike's Phobos charge rerolls and ability to add some punch might make him shine even more when combined with Reivers, and might make Reivers worth it again (since many of us have Reivers collecting dust anyway).

 

Which might be comparable to this thread's list - everything is mobile and going forward in the current plan, stocking up on similarly forward-operating units might be interesting for the next steps.


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#16
Jacques Corbin

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How about this if you are going all Primaris?

Primaris Captain, Bellicose Rifle, Power Sword, Rites of War

Intercessors, Auto Bolt Rifles

Impulsor, Bellicatus Missile Array, 2 Storm Bolters

Eliminators, Bolt Sniper Rifles

Redemptor Dreadnought, Macro Plasma, Heavy Flamer, 2 Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod

Pretty Versatile, and just enough anti tank to handle armor at 500 points, while making an opponent sweat if they did not bring much anti tank themselves. That Impulsor will get the Captain and his Intercessors to an objective quick, and there will be a lot of weapons benefitting from Tactical Doctrine on turn 2. Your opening salvo on turn 1, with the macro plasma and a krak missile will put the hurt in an enemy transport, and Eliminators are there for enemy characters. I would take that to a 500 point event, if I had the dreadnought and the Impulsor.

#17
SanguinaryGuardsman

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Has there been an FAQ on Gene Wrought Might + Insursors paired combat blades ability?  Does a 6 equate to 2 automatic wounds or 1 wound + 1 hit?



#18
Entry1

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My interpretation of the way you play those types of abilities after FAQ is you get the extra hit but the extra hits don’t grant you any of the other abilities such as auto wounding.

Brian

#19
Dracos

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I’m teaming up with another Space Marine player this Friday to play 1000 points a side. He’s fairly new to the game and his friend is an an Eldar player. We going to pick up a fourth and all do some learning. It’ll be my first game in years. I expect it to be a disaster lol. I made this list and now I realize I can’t put both the Aggressors and Smash Captain into reserve so I’ll start the Captain on the table and try to maneuver him into position to buff the Aggressors in T2 and make a charge. Intercessors will just go pew pew this game.

Next Up: Incursors and converting a Eliminator Sgt into a Phobis Captain

++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Space Marines) [26 PL, -1CP, 500pts] ++

**Chapter Selection**: Warhawks <Raven Guard>

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, -1CP, 143pts]: Jump Pack, Master-Crafted Weapon, Shadowmaster, Storm shield, Stratagem: Master of the Trifold Path, The Imperium's Sword, Thunder hammer, Warlord

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 86pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor
. Intercessor Sergeant: Chainsword

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 86pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor
. Intercessor Sergeant: Chainsword

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad [10 PL, 185pts]: 4x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant
. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

++ Total: [26 PL, -1CP, 500pts] ++


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#20
Claws and Effect

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I used my 500 point list in a game against my son's Necrons as part of a 1750 point force.

The Tempests and Suppressors were scary with Shrikes rerolls.

I'm considering rolling a Chaplain with them to make for a fast moving blob of guns that will consistently wound things.

The Tempests and Suppressors were crucial in taking down the Nightbringer.

I took the win 11-10 and spent half the game feeling like I was playing against myself because I was giving the kiddo advice on how to best use his units (he's 9).




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