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Uses for DA new "Super Doctrine"


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#51
jaxom

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Eliminators with Las-fusils. Devastator doctrine yields 42" Str 8 AP-4 D3 a pop. Only Heavy 1, but two squads of three is 216 points.


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#52
TempestBlade

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I wish eliminator could go up to squads of 6.
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#53
eternal_warrior12

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Yes to keep Eliminators alive in my games I have to shove infiltrators down people’s throats to pull attention. Even with camo cloaks a couple shots can ruin their effectiveness. The strength of them is undeniable but also a big bullet magnet.

#54
Ania Redfang

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Have we looked at Invictors with the flame cannon? It's heavy so 18" range on that bad boy for 2D6 autohits. rolleyesclean.gif


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#55
SnakeChisler

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Have we looked at Invictors with the flame cannon? It's heavy so 18" range on that bad boy for 2D6 autohits. rolleyesclean.gif

I recently built 3 and magneted the weapons, there's no real incentive to not run the incendium cannon anymore, I can get 2 into a ravenwing list hopefully they really take the pressure off the bikes T1

the dev bonus gives them neg 2 as well

 

thinking of running a standard bike squad with 2 flamers and a combi see how it works out up fro 8 to 11 is a big bonus

 

it will affect Terminators as well but 1D6 is a bit sparse you kind of need 2 or 3 to make it worth it



#56
farfromsam

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I'm not a smart man. I painted up 20 hell blasters thinking they must be cheaper than RWBK. And they are... by a point. There are many many reasons why RWBK are better, but can anyone find a reason to pick hell blasters over black knights with the new rules?

#57
jaxom

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Consistency? The Black Knights are still reliant on outside factors to get the most out of them (characters, stratagems, etc). You can plonk down Hellblasters and they'll perform well even without nubbins.


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#58
SnakeChisler

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I'm not a smart man. I painted up 20 hell blasters thinking they must be cheaper than RWBK. And they are... by a point. There are many many reasons why RWBK are better, but can anyone find a reason to pick hell blasters over black knights with the new rules?

Double tap at 18 range is now 36 + 6" move at -5 in dev doctrines

 

Chaplain can give you +1 to hit against nearest visible target and take a Master or Azreal for re-rolls



#59
Berzul

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I'm not a smart man. I painted up 20 hell blasters thinking they must be cheaper than RWBK. And they are... by a point. There are many many reasons why RWBK are better, but can anyone find a reason to pick hell blasters over black knights with the new rules?

Double tap at 18 range is now 36 + 6" move at -5 in dev doctrines

 

Chaplain can give you +1 to hit against nearest visible target and take a Master or Azreal for re-rolls

 

Can't argue that...

 

I might pick up some hellblasters myself.


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#60
Maxamato

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The +1 to hit isn't against the nearest visible unit, it is the +1 to wound chant?

#61
Phaeton

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Hellblasters better than knights work with Azrael, because, you know, Azrael can't run fast enough to accompany black knights :)
Hellblasters can intercept enemy reinforcments with auspex scan, black knights not.
Hellblasters can shoot on death with ancient, black knights not.

Also, why take one of them instead of another? They are both good units for DA (RWBK slightly better). In my rosters starting with 1500 I plan to take both - 10 Hellblasters with Azrael and 10 RWBK with Talonmaster.
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#62
jaxom

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The +1 to hit isn't against the nearest visible unit, it is the +1 to wound chant?

 

Correct. Recitation of Focus grants +1 to hit. Catechism of Fire grants +1 to wound against the closest enemy unit.


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#63
MistaGav

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With this +1 to hit stuff, would I be right in thinking that it means plasmas guns won't overheat on a roll of 1? I'm thinking the Talonmaster with the new Warlord trait would mesh well with Landspeeder Vengeance.



#64
Phaeton

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With this +1 to hit stuff, would I be right in thinking that it means plasmas guns won't overheat on a roll of 1?


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#65
jbaeza94

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Hold up. Natural 1s are always failures, so you would miss, but not overheat?

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#66
sneakybamsen

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Hold up. Natural 1s are always failures, so you would miss, but not overheat?

 

Yes, miss, but not overheat.


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#67
TheFinisher4Ever

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How does everyone feel about MM Typhoon Land Speeders with an Impeccable Mobility talonmaster for support? It's highly mobile and puts out quite a bit of dakka at 30".

Edited by TheFinisher4Ever, 28 January 2020 - 04:38 PM.

Ad Mech - 5,000 points

Blood Angels - 12,000 points

Dark Angels - 6,500 points

Deathwatch - 3,000 points

Eldar - 18,500 points

Imperial Fists - 5,000 points

Imperial Guard - 1,000 points

Grey Knights - 6,500 points

Sisters of Battle - 4,000 points

 


#68
Berzul

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How does everyone feel about MM Typhoon Land Speeders with an Impeccable Mobility talonmaster for support? It's highly mobile and puts out quite a bit of dakka at 30".


Very devilish of you. I like it.


On a different take, I played a squad of veterans with plasmas yesterday. The extra 3" for Rapid Firing the plasma came seriously handy, to get mw to reach targets behind screens, and after deployment.

Im thinking about trying a squad of plasma cannon devastators, in the drop, with the 1cp stratagem to fire as if static after the drop. So as to land in a good position with them, after deployment and extra reposition shennanigans arw done.

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#69
SnakeChisler

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How does everyone feel about MM Typhoon Land Speeders with an Impeccable Mobility talonmaster for support? It's highly mobile and puts out quite a bit of dakka at 30".


Very devilish of you. I like it.


On a different take, I played a squad of veterans with plasmas yesterday. The extra 3" for Rapid Firing the plasma came seriously handy, to get mw to reach targets behind screens, and after deployment.

Im thinking about trying a squad of plasma cannon devastators, in the drop, with the 1cp stratagem to fire as if static after the drop. So as to land in a good position with them, after deployment and extra reposition shennanigans arw done.

 

I was thinking that's not too bad then had a look in our codex

 

Arghhhhh the options are all different from the index and most notably 7th

It says you can replace the main weapon  HB for a MM but you can't take an MM or a HB as your 2nd weapon that appears to be restricted too Typhoon, Assault Cannon or Heavy Flamer.

From a model point of view I'm ok coz stuff is on magnets but my trusty old dual HB is out and Dual MM is out too

 

Points wise Typhoon / HB or Assault Cannon / HB seem the optimal, MM / Assault Cannon looks pricey and MM on its own looks a bit bare may as well take an attack bike

 

On another note not sure why you'd put plasma cannons in a drop pod given the 42 inch range on another note may try Grav Cannons again their now 30" with neg 4 and your Chappie gives you movement



#70
SnakeChisler

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Just to add the splash Typhoon Missiles will get neg 1 as their heavy so neg 3 for the strength 8 versions 56" range should let you shoot just about anywhere on the board.



#71
Aothaine

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Not sure if anyone mentioned how good this works with Infiltrators. 30" range on bolters that auto wound on 6's to hit with reroll 1s to hit if they didn't move on a unit that can start out almost anywhere on the board.


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#72
Angel of Solitude

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Infiltrators are interesting...having that extra 6" range could be helpful, but the problem I have with them is that they are twice the points of scouts. So for the same price as 1 squad, I can get two scout squads, which makes filling a Battalion just that bit easier.

 

Last night I tried out a full squad of Stalker Bolt Rifle Intercessors, supported by a Chaplain and a Lt...they are particularly tasty! I wasn't able to use them to snipe a character, but the AP-3 D2 42" profile of the weapon makes them very tasty. Chaplain support means that they can move and fire, hit on 3+ and re-roll 1's, extending their threat range to 48" and allow them to re-position. Grim Resolve also means that you're not going to lose much to morale.


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#73
Aothaine

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Infiltrators are interesting...having that extra 6" range could be helpful, but the problem I have with them is that they are twice the points of scouts. So for the same price as 1 squad, I can get two scout squads, which makes filling a Battalion just that bit easier.

 

Last night I tried out a full squad of Stalker Bolt Rifle Intercessors, supported by a Chaplain and a Lt...they are particularly tasty! I wasn't able to use them to snipe a character, but the AP-3 D2 42" profile of the weapon makes them very tasty. Chaplain support means that they can move and fire, hit on 3+ and re-roll 1's, extending their threat range to 48" and allow them to re-position. Grim Resolve also means that you're not going to lose much to morale.

 

They are expensive. But you have to keep in mind that they are zoning all deep-striking unit out of charge range. What I mean here is that enemies deep striking in have to deploy over 12" away. Declared charges can only be against units within 12". So they have an very interesting interaction with deep-striked units.

 

The 10-man Stalker Bolt Rifle Intercessors sounds juicy! :D I like it!



#74
ValourousHeart

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Have we looked at Invictors with the flame cannon? It's heavy so 18" range on that bad boy for 2D6 autohits. rolleyesclean.gif

 

I have 2 with the flame cannon and am currently building a 3rd with the autocannon.

Just need to get one more which will also have the autocannon.

 

They have performed stellar in all of my games so far.

Just need to keep them away from my units if I expect them to be killed.

Normally I don't roll 6s for explode with my other vehicles (1/6 average) and when those speeders explode it is only for 1 MW.

So far my Invictors have a 100% explode rate and the damage tends to be 4+ MW to everything in range.






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