206 replies to this topic

[Captain_Krash]

Everyone still sleeping on the Khan???

 

Krash

[Black Blow Fly]

The last Primarch Omegon ever wants to see is Roboute Guilliman.

[DeadFingers]

No disrespect intended towards anyone, but I'm of the opinion that all of the "Primarch switches sides" ideas would be pretty much a slap to the face for players on both sides, regardless of said switching being towards the Imperium or towards Chaos. One side would lose a Primarch they could've had, and the other gets a Primarch in place of one of the others they could've had and actually wanted. I don't know, it just seems silly to me.

Edited by DeadFingers, 23 January 2020 - 12:27 AM.

[Fajita Fan]

I'll throw an odd one in: Omegon. Bring back Omegon as a loyalist who would try to clean up shop in the inquisition, supported by a selection of loyalists all the while having a very link to G-man.

This is a fun idea!

[PeteySödes]

No disrespect intended towards anyone, but I'm of the opinion that all of the "Primarch switches sides" ideas would be pretty much a slap to the face for players on both sides, regardless of said switching being towards the Imperium or towards Chaos. One side would lose a Primarch they could've had, and the other gets a Primarch in place of one of the others they could've had and actually wanted. I don't know, it just seems silly to me.

As fun of a brain or story exercise as it is to think about I totally agree with this. I get rustled as it is when thinking about wulfen Russ so if he suddenly turned for reasons I’d be really sad. I wouldn’t want that for anyone.

[Lord_Caerolion]

"Hey kids! Remember your favourite Primarch from the Horus Heresy? We'll you'll really love it when you now can't use him in your 40k army! Come get your nerd-rage today!"

[Felix Antipodes]

No disrespect intended towards anyone, but I'm of the opinion that all of the "Primarch switches sides" ideas would be pretty much a slap to the face for players on both sides, regardless of said switching being towards the Imperium or towards Chaos. One side would lose a Primarch they could've had, and the other gets a Primarch in place of one of the others they could've had and actually wanted. I don't know, it just seems silly to me.

As fun of a brain or story exercise as it is to think about I totally agree with this. I get rustled as it is when thinking about wulfen Russ so if he suddenly turned for reasons I’d be really sad. I wouldn’t want that for anyone.

Even if a Primarch did turn from/to the Imperium they would be alone IMHO. The traitor legions are not going to follow their boy back after 10,000 years of hating on the Imperium. Likewise the loyalists wouldn't jump ship just because their big daddy goes over to the dark side as they have had the same period despising chaos and all it stands for. Loyalty to their Primarch would only go so far.
This idea is a thought bubble that might have been achievable in a post-HH/Scouring setting but even that train has probably left the station as well.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Only way around it could be to have them join the Black Legion, but even then they'd be constantly getting attacked by every Champion who wants to be "the one who killed the Lion", or whatever.

[BrainFireBob]

Nihilus leaves room for the Lion- the Unforgiven work together anyways

[Fajita Fan]

 

No disrespect intended towards anyone, but I'm of the opinion that all of the "Primarch switches sides" ideas would be pretty much a slap to the face for players on both sides, regardless of said switching being towards the Imperium or towards Chaos. One side would lose a Primarch they could've had, and the other gets a Primarch in place of one of the others they could've had and actually wanted. I don't know, it just seems silly to me.

As fun of a brain or story exercise as it is to think about I totally agree with this. I get rustled as it is when thinking about wulfen Russ so if he suddenly turned for reasons I’d be really sad. I wouldn’t want that for anyone.

 

I wouldn't think Wulfenruss needs to be a bad guy.  Mental exercise: the Wolves always knew their role was to be the Emperor's executioners per "Burning of Prospero" so if he turned feral looking in service to the Allfather I think he'd most likely embrace whatever his wyrd led him to.  I don't want him to turn feral because they'd make him look like the Wulfen models with their dog legs that wouldn't support the weight of a biped.  GW's "bigger is better" mentality makes me afraid that would be the art direction but I hope I'm pleasantly surprised.

 

With respect to art direction the 40k Robute is more ornate than his 30k model and Ultramarines are the GW box art chapter of choice so it's logical he was the first new primarch model.  Which loyal primarch's 40k armor and weapons would look the coolest?  Maybe that's which model GW would release next?  They're a mini company first and story/game company second. I think the Lion's 40k armor would be the most ornate and detailed.

[gaurdian31]

I want loyal Fulgrim from the Fabius Bile series.

[jaxom]

That's the second mention of it. Is the Fabius Bile series worth reading?

[gaurdian31]

Not to get too off topic, but I think so.

[mawhis]

That's the second mention of it. Is the Fabius Bile series worth reading?

I certainly enjoyed it. It's definitely worthwhile if you like Fabius or the Emperor's Children (though its not an EC series). They also fill in some of the gaps around the Legion wars stuff that ADB covered in Black Legion

[.Torch.]

Sleepy Hollow themed Ferrus Manus for me I think.

[Claws and Effect]

Ferrus Manus leading a revamped Legion of the Damned would be really cool.

With a Ghost Rider-esque flaming skull for a head....

Edited by Claws and Effect, 25 January 2020 - 01:02 AM.

[DeadFingers]

Sleepy Hollow themed Ferrus Manus for me I think.

By this you mean having him look like Christopher Walken with shark teeth, right?

[BrotherEndcat]

Well its got to be a loyalist primarch at this stage right? Surely it wouldn't be a traitor primarch as 3 on 1 would be insane at this stage and big papa smurf surviving another encounter with his brothers would get old.

 

The Lion from a political sense and to throw a spanner in the works makes sense and he has the easiest come back potential with where he is.

 

Another one I think would be interesting, purely for the turmoil it would start.... DORN. Imagine him coming back as a one handed angry son of a gun, seeing the division of his legion and the impact its had weakening the imperium and it boils up all the post heresy tension. Just a cool thought but very unlikely lol.

[b1soul]

Any loyalist primarch would be a compelling candidate for return.

Each of them has sufficient set-up in the HH series to return as an interesting, three-dimensional character, with an arc to equal that of Abaddon after spending years in the Warp contemplating his father's failure.

I personally feel Dorn would be a bit boring, though anything is possible in the hands of a masterful writer.

I think a free spirit like the Khan would provide an easy way to challenge G-man's personality and the new order established under him. The Khan disdains the trappings of Empire but surely he'd realise the need to cooperate as a highly cohesive front in these desperate times. Something similar could be said of Russ and Corax, both of whom tend to operate very independently. Of course, throw in the personality changes you could imagine have occurred over a life-time or more in the Warp or whatnot, and you have a really interesting premise to run with.

The Lion may be the most likely to fight with G-Man over the macro-policies steering the Imperium's future. Like Bobby, he's been sleeping (but a good point was made above that his soul might have been active all this time). Rather than ignoring Bobby and splitting off or challenging his authourity in certain areas, over time the Lion might come to believe that his vision of the Imperium ought to override Bobby's. Who should be the Imperium's great helmsman? Would a dual Lord Commander arrangement (similar to the Roman dual Emperor system) be viable? Or would a divided empire (this East and West Roman Empire) or possibly civil war (Union vs. Confederacy) transpire? It's worth noting that the Unforgiven rival the numbers of UM successors (correct me if I'm wrong). There are a large number of BA successors, but San is probably never coming back.

[Dosjetka]

The Ultramarines and their successors make up roughly 2/3 of all Chapters currently in existence. This has been mentioned multiple times in the lore over the years so it still holds true, unless it has been retconned recently.
Not only that but the High Lords of Terra were said as purposefully not selecting the Lion's geneseed after a certain point in time due to their distrust in the Unforgiven and their goals/agenda.

So no, the Unforgiven do not come close to rivalling the numbers of the Ultramarines and their successors.

[Dosjetka]

Back on topic, I don't really mind who we see come back next. I think thex would all have their place and each one of them would provide some neat plot hooks for the writers to exploit. They'd also all give Guilliman a bit of a headache which is no bad thing for character and story development.

[Cleon]

One thing that came up in conversation here was that Corax would be quite a good fit.

 

He left, so could come back without a major retcon/upheaval and his story with rebuilding his legion would probably leave him with the most appreciation for Primaris, which would fit the GW narrative.

[b1soul]

I was under the impression that DA successors were the second most numerous...do we have any concrete info about geneseed ranking (numbers) after Guilliman's line?

[Ishagu]

I was under the impression that DA successors were the second most numerous...do we have any concrete info about geneseed ranking (numbers) after Guilliman's line?

They may well be, but it doesn't change the fact that the gene lines of all the loyalist Primarchs that aren't Guilliman only comprise 30% of all loyalist Astartes. DA successors might still be outnumbered 10 to 1 by the line of Guilliman.

[Marshal Rohr]

I was under the impression that DA successors were the second most numerous...do we have any concrete info about geneseed ranking (numbers) after Guilliman's line?

You’re mixing up geneseed Stability and Numbers. IIRC, the Dark Angels, Ultramarines, and Iron Warriors have the most stable geneseed stocks (ie largest success rate when implanted). I’d have to go back and check but the old FFG tables had something like a roll of 1-50 being Ultramarines, and the various successors/unknown being divided amongst the last half of the table. You *could* extrapolate that into out of each founding from the loyalist 9, half of the created chapters use Ultras geneseed, while the others make up the remaining fifty percent.