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Which loyalist Primarch would you like to see next?

Loyalist Chapters Primarch

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#126
Claws and Effect

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The majority of Space Marines in the galaxy have Guilliman's geneseed. But not all of them would blindly follow him if it comes to a civil war.

I could easily see a Chapter like the Emperor's Spears siding with Lion or Russ in any conflict that arises.

Just like not all Raven Guard successors do the whole space ninja thing, not all Ultramarine successors blindly worship their Primarch. Some of them really don't care that much where their geneseed came from and put serving the Emperor ahead of their Primarch. If they had good reason to believe that Roboute had designs on usurping the throne, they wouldn't follow him.

#127
MegaVolt87

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The majority of Space Marines in the galaxy have Guilliman's geneseed. But not all of them would blindly follow him if it comes to a civil war.
I could easily see a Chapter like the Emperor's Spears siding with Lion or Russ in any conflict that arises.
Just like not all Raven Guard successors do the whole space ninja thing, not all Ultramarine successors blindly worship their Primarch. Some of them really don't care that much where their geneseed came from and put serving the Emperor ahead of their Primarch. If they had good reason to believe that Roboute had designs on usurping the throne, they wouldn't follow him.


I dunno, primarchs have that bend the knee and obey quality to them though when Astartes see them in person. Even from other legions react that way to primarchs that are not their own.
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#128
b1soul

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If I were GW, I'd bring back one of the following first:

Corax
Khan
Vulkan

I think the former two are more interesting.

Save Russ or the Lion for a real sales-slump.

Clone Fulgrim is actually the coolest of the bunch. A clone of the primarch who sent G-man into stasis, now working with him secretly...it would have to be secret. The Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy would scream Heresy and perversion
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#129
Karhedron

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Clone Fulgrim is actually the coolest of the bunch. A clone of the primarch who sent G-man into stasis, now working with him secretly...it would have to be secret. The Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy would scream Heresy and perversion


How many of them would actually know who Fulgrim is? Records from the Horus Heresy are not widely available. I think that Roboute would have a hard time trusting Fulgrim 2.0, never mind the rest of the Imperium.

Fulgrim 2.0: "But brother, I swear I am as loyal to our Father as you are. I wasn't the one who stabbed you, it was my fallen original".
Guilliman: "You fell once before. Even if I believe that was not truly you, how do I know it won't happen again?"
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#130
Irbis

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Loyalist Omegon would be more interesting than a cloned loyalist Fulgrim.

 
How so? Not only his infiltration skills would be completely useless against chaos (due to pesky fact pretending to be chaos worshiper makes you real one real quick) or xenos, there is still the fact that while cloned Fulgrim can claim innocence, Omegon was actually on Terra helping kill the Emperor (then attacked Rob in scouring, and I really hope he died there and then, no retcons please) making him a real traitor who needs more than 'plz send team invite' to actually be welcomed back.
 

 

Clone Fulgrim is actually the coolest of the bunch. A clone of the primarch who sent G-man into stasis, now working with him secretly...it would have to be secret. The Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy would scream Heresy and perversion


How many of them would actually know who Fulgrim is? Records from the Horus Heresy are not widely available. I think that Roboute would have a hard time trusting Fulgrim 2.0, never mind the rest of the Imperium.

Fulgrim 2.0: "But brother, I swear I am as loyal to our Father as you are. I wasn't the one who stabbed you, it was my fallen original".
Guilliman: "You fell once before. Even if I believe that was not truly you, how do I know it won't happen again?"

 


A lot actually, the names of daemon primarchs are widely known among the Inquisition. Especially now that they went on rampage so ignoring their presence would be kind of hard to do. Though, what would have stopped Guilliman from simply claiming it's the II or XI primarch? It's not like there are many portraits of pre-Heresy Fulgrim left.
 
As for knowing, presumably he could have dragged the clone bound before the Emperor and ask him if he should be executed or given a chance. Emps should be able to tell if there are any traces of corruption or use the whole clairvoyance thing and give Rob his verdict.



#131
AHorriblePerson

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If I had to choose one primarch to return, it'd be the Lion or the Khan - not because of any opportunities for interesting stories (as I believe that many fans are just as capable of forging an interesting narrative for their own armies and factions than many of GW's official writers), but simply because I like their history and portrayals during the Heresy.

 

That said, I am content with the loyalist primarchs staying dead and/or lost. The daemon primarchs can come back, we know that they're alive and waging their own battles. No issues there imo. While his return was on the mediocre side, I also like the idea of Guilliman's return, as he is the (very brittle) chain holding the shattered Imperium together.

 

I'd say that this is a state that can last at least a few years longer. Getting accustomed to the Era Indomitus and taking their time to explore the narrative possibilities here is something I'd much rather see from GW (and FW too - a new Imperial Armour would be king censored.gif ). The setting has worked without primarchs for decades, and I kinda think it's a shame how much of the fandom revolves around wanting primarchs to return nowadays.

 

Oh yeah, as for Omegon, I'd keep his fate ambiguous. Whether he is truly alive or not doesn't matter when his war is being fought in the shadows.


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#132
MegaVolt87

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Loyalist Omegon would be more interesting than a cloned loyalist Fulgrim.

 
How so? Not only his infiltration skills would be completely useless against chaos (due to pesky fact pretending to be chaos worshiper makes you real one real quick) or xenos, there is still the fact that while cloned Fulgrim can claim innocence, Omegon was actually on Terra helping kill the Emperor (then attacked Rob in scouring, and I really hope he died there and then, no retcons please) making him a real traitor who needs more than 'plz send team invite' to actually be welcomed back.

 

Because AL don't just infiltrate, they have very layerd strategems etc in pitched battle as well which makes them no joke in conventional war. You should read up more on their "harrowing" signature warfare in HH/ FW black books. They aren't just the spy vs spy memes. 


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#133
Lord_Caerolion

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Also, even the original source of "Alpharius" dying during the Scouring against Guilliman was heavily, heavily implied to be incorrect, given the Ultramarines say it never happened, and the one person saying it did turned out to be an Alpha Legion operative.


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#134
DeadFingers

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Here's how to bring back Alpharius/Omegon:

 

One kit, three models, all in fancy Alpha Legion armour, noticeably taller than your average Astartes, but not as tall as Guilliman. Just call the kit "The Hydra" and give them some funky rules that don't really have a lot to do with their own fighting ability, but rather to improve Alpha Legion troops around them or represent infiltration and subterfuge in some way.

 

Are any of them actually one or both of the Primarchs of the Alpha Legion? Who knows, who cares. They're Alpharius.

 

That way they get to "bring back" a Primarch without breaking or retconning any lore, and it fits the Alpha Legion's identity. But since this thread is particularly about loyalist returns and I still don't believe in allegiance-switching, I'll leave it at that. biggrin.png


Edited by DeadFingers, 29 January 2020 - 11:54 PM.

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#135
b1soul

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Good writers could make the return of any loyalist primarch interesting.

I think Ferrus and Sanguinius should stay gone, but all the others are interesting options. I do feel Dorn would be a bit bland and Vulkan might lack tension with G-man (though he could find G-man too ruthless by his standard).
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#136
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Alpharius should be the next one. Barring that, none.

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#137
Karhedron

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I think Ferrus and Sanguinius should stay gone, but all the others are interesting options. I do feel Dorn would be a bit bland and Vulkan might lack tension with G-man (though he could find G-man too ruthless by his standard).


Ferrus and Sanguinius probably should stay dead as these events played a crucial role in shaping their Chapters. Bringing them back would rather undermine some of their character.

Dorn is a difficult one as rather than mysteriously disappearing, he apparently chose to commit suicide-by-heretic. If you bring him back, his state of mind would likely be even worse seeing the state the Imperium is in now and he might well go the same way again. Now you could argue that his death was a ruse to go into hiding but what for? Why come back now and not earlier? A good story would either make or break Dorn's return.

Vulkan on the other hand has a solid reason for vanishing from the front lines. In fact, you could argue that him reappearing would be bad news since it would imply the fall of the webway gate in the Throne Room. As for getting on with Guilliman, I don't see too much of a problem there. Vulkan may be a humanitarian but so is Guilliman in his way. Vulkan is pragmatic enough to realise that the state of the Imperium is not going to change overnight while it is in the middle of a war. I think he would also understand the political realities Guilliman has had to deal with. I expect he would sympathise with his brother and Guilliman would probably be immensely relieved to have one of his more stable brothers beside him. I agree that there is not a huge scope for tension.

Russ and Khan are both pretty independently-minded which could be a source of tension. I imagine Guilliman would probably set them loose crusading along the great rift or in Imperium Nihilus to try and hold this together.

The Lion would be interesting. He might accept Guilliman's authority, particularly if he gets proclaimed Warmaster. But I can see issues with him following his own agenda and hunting down Luther and the remaining Fallen. This could be an interesting way to develop the story, the Lion and Guilliman at loggerheads about priorities with Johnson wanting to hunt the enemy while Guilliman would want Imperial worlds shoring up and defending.
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Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#138
Black Blow Fly

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Edited by Black Blow Fly, 01 February 2020 - 12:19 AM.

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#139
Jarl Caldersson

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Thing is that most of you keep overlooking, it's been 10k years. The Primarchs are human and can change their personality. Vulkan could come back grizzled and war hardened, eager for vengeance. Khan could come back tired and ready to rest his feet, like a old bike ganger finally realizing he has had enough. We keep thinking they will be like their 30k selves, and save for Guilliman, they won't be.

I just don't expect them to be the same, similiar yes but not the same. I don't think vulkan will go blood-crazed, but maybe just fed-up with his countless deaths and seeing his effort gone for nought. Khan may come back and realize his shying away from his brothers has caused damage and will want to embrace his family. The biggest swing I can see is Russ, as its noted his sons "age" and mateur much more noticeably than others. He felt a split personality between his Fenris-Barbarian, and his Terran-General selves.

Edited by Jarl Caldersson, 01 February 2020 - 01:40 PM.

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#140
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The Lion would be broadly the same, and it's why he would probably be the best choice.

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#141
Triszin

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The Lion would be broadly the same, and it's why he would probably be the best choice.

not necessarily, the only primarch that would have been the same is Roboute, because he was locked in stasis.

 

We know that primarchs dont need sleep, so we cannot assume that the Lion is/was actually sleeping.

There is a chance Lion could have been on a spirit walk for 10k years


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#142
Black Blow Fly

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I seriously doubt it.


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#143
Jarl Caldersson

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The Lion would be broadly the same, and it's why he would probably be the best choice.

 

 

Ah yes i forgot about Lion and he cat nap. If he was asleep he will be the same, if not then he won't be the same. Although I doubt he could be awake and not throwing parades and fanfare, or attempting to take control of the imperium forces. So I would assume he will be back the same.


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#144
Jukkiz

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The Lion would be broadly the same, and it's why he would probably be the best choice.

not necessarily, the only primarch that would have been the same is Roboute, because he was locked in stasis.

 

We know that primarchs dont need sleep, so we cannot assume that the Lion is/was actually sleeping.

There is a chance Lion could have been on a spirit walk for 10k years

 

I think he been mentioned of being sleeping everytime there was nod to him at rock, right?


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#145
jaxom

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The Lion is the Arthurian king archetype, not Metro Man from Megamind. Could GW alter that? Sure, but it would rob him of any narrative heft.

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#146
Vogon

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Where can the description of Corax be found?

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#147
Karhedron

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Where can the description of Corax be found?


Which one? If you are looking for him during the Horus Heresy then "Deliverence Lost" and the anthology "Corax". If you are interested in his post-Scouring state where he found a way to "level-up" to daemon Primarch power levels is covered in the anthology "Sons of the Emperor". It it kind of satisfying to see Lorgar finally get a good kicking. The fact that Corax sends Lorgar fleeing in terror despite Lorgar having ascended to daemonhood by this point is telling.
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Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#148
Vogon

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Where can the description of Corax be found?

Which one? If you are looking for him during the Horus Heresy then "Deliverence Lost" and the anthology "Corax". If you are interested in his post-Scouring state where he found a way to "level-up" to daemon Primarch power levels is covered in the anthology "Sons of the Emperor". It it kind of satisfying to see Lorgar finally get a good kicking. The fact that Corax sends Lorgar fleeing in terror despite Lorgar having ascended to daemonhood by this point is telling.

Looks like I need to find a copy of Sons of the Emperor then.

Cheers

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#149
Cpt_Reaper

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Space Wolves and Dark Angels have a codex and living Primarch. Therefore the Lion or Russ should return to 40k.

Alpharius is dead. Omegon is being Alpharius and is quite clearly a Chaos traitor.

Other loyalists might be just as viable but at the end of the day they don't have codexes.

#150
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